Palestinian Nasheed-Singer: Mays Shalash
-
Do you know of any fatwa that has/had been issued against any female singer?
salam,
Those fathwas are not One; they are everywhere! If you go to any fathwa-website and search on women's voice, you are sure to find fathwas prohibiting the women's voice. For example, you can take a look at the following fathwa on one of the most popular fathwa-websites
http//qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1321&CATE=88
It is a very good point to mention that they have also banned women from reciting the Qur'an like the male Qaris do, and this is due to the very same reason as why they ban women from singing. In the following fathwa, both singing AND reciting the Qur'an is being banned in one shot, using the same excuse that the women's voice 'leads to fithna'
http//qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1361&CATE=88
I also recently posted those nasheed-videos on two other forums, and the Sunni moderators at those forums immediately DELETED and removed my threads because of the influence of these anti-women fathwas. One of these moderators actually posted links to the fathwas I mentioned above, which shows that these fathwas provide a blanket-ban on ALL women's voice being used for ANY purpose, even if it is being used for such a noble purpose as reciting the Qur'an. So I'm not sure why you are asking for a fathwa which has been issued against a single female singer in the Arab world? The issue is much broader than that because their fathwas rule the WHOLE female population not just one or two individuals.
wasalam
-
Salaam Ameen
I think we are talking about different undertsandings when we mention "fatwa". I understand it as a legal, official opinion that calls for a law to implement it. It should, therefore, be issued by an official body. What you mean is a mere opinion. Since women voice is heard on TV's and workplaces, it means that no legal fatwa has yet been issued, or that the prevailing understanding has not been endorsed as legal or has to be applied. There isn't even a suggested punishment for women who raise their voices or any mention of any of them by name.
-
I think we are talking about different undertsandings when we mention "fatwa". I understand it as a legal, official opinion that calls for a law to implement it. It should, therefore, be issued by an official body. What you mean is a mere opinion. Since women voice is heard on TV's and workplaces, it means that no legal fatwa has yet been issued, or that the prevailing understanding has not been endorsed as legal or has to be applied. There isn't even a suggested punishment for women who raise their voices or any mention of any of them by name.
salam,
I was referring to the kind of fathwa which is issued by mufthis all over the world; they may be mere opinions of these mufthis but the Muslims who follow these mufthis take these fathwas as undeniable Law which must be implemented. The type of fathwa you are talking about only exists in the countries which are run by Sunni Muslims themselves, and does not affect the rest of world not following such a system. Just because some countries are being run by Sunni Muslims does not make their fathwas any more 'official' or 'legal', because the fact is that it is in their teachings to ban women's voice and they do ban women in the countless fathwas issued by mufthis all around the world. What matters is that the Muslims are following these fathwas and are being affected by them, so the question of what happens in some 'Muslim' countries is irrelevant.
wasalam
-
A fatwa by definition of Sunni law, is a non binding religious or legal opinion of a scholar. A person can take it or leave it. The ruler can chose to enforce a Fatwa, but by Sunni thought, it will always be subject to challenge if a rival opinion came through and that depended on sound grounds. Sound grounds would be based on Qur'anic understanding and critique of relevant hadeeth, either through presenting potential weakness in it or presenting alternative understanding of what it indicates or through presenting alternative hadeeths with stronger cases that may be talking about an alternative.
Hussein
-
Sr. Samia,
It is true, women singing has been made forbidden by Sunni scholars. I am actually surpirised how you did not bump accross these teachings.
Plenty of (unauthorised) fatwas around on this matter.
I just want to add that it is not only women singing but also music which is declared haram by sunni scholars. And amazingly, those scholars say the early sahabas understand verse 316 that way and hence we have to follow their understanding!
Some interesting quotes ...
Finally, Allaah says what means "And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allaah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allaah, the Verses of the Qur'aan) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire)."
Ibn Masood may Allaah be pleased with him said about this verse "I swear by the One other than Whom there is no God that it refers to singing .", and he repeated this three times. Ibn Abbaas may Allaah be pleased with him said it referred to 'singing and the like' while Jaabir may Allaah be pleased with him is reported to view its meaning to signify singing and listening to songs. Many taabi'oon such as Mujaahid, Ikrimah, Mak-hool and Umar ibn Shu'ayb viewed it as a censure of music and song.
From http//www.geocities.com/kkhaan/musicharam.html
-
Contrary to what was posted. There is no agreement between Sunni scholars that says music is haram. There is a well documented disagreement on music. Unfortunately, many of you post with certitude about issues that you obviously have very little knowledge of.
Hussein
-
Contrary to what was posted. There is no agreement between Sunni scholars that says music is haram. There is a well documented disagreement on music. Unfortunately, many of you post with certitude about issues that you obviously have very little knowledge of.
Hussein
I saw and read a lot about that argument but in practice, it is the conservative view.
It is so easy from this perspective. Take this flowchart
Start ==> Is it banned in the Quran? =v=> Yes ==> Haram
...................................................No
....................................................v
...............................................Not Haram!006.114
YUSUFALI Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
PICKTHAL Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers.
SHAKIR Shall I then seek a judge other than Allah? And He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) made plain; and those whom We have given the Book know that it is revealed by your Lord with truth, therefore you should not be of the disputers.I presume your view is that it is allowed?
-
I learned a long time ago that one cannot counter an argument by dismissing it. Yes, I accept Music and I take the Qur'an in account mainly, but I also learn how to address the hadeeth involved in those discussions. All scholars accept that those hadeeths are weak.
Take care and have a great day.
Hussein
-
A fatwa by definition of Sunni law, is a non binding religious or legal opinion of a scholar. A person can take it or leave it. The ruler can chose to enforce a Fatwa, but by Sunni thought, it will always be subject to challenge if a rival opinion came through and that depended on sound grounds. Sound grounds would be based on Qur'anic understanding and critique of relevant hadeeth, either through presenting potential weakness in it or presenting alternative understanding of what it indicates or through presenting alternative hadeeths with stronger cases that may be talking about an alternative.
salam,
A fathwa may or may not be non-binding; that does not change the fact that the mufthis base their fathwas on their Hadith and the opinions in the fathwas reflect the mentality they have adopted from reading the anti-women Hadith. So there's no point in mentioning that a fathwa is supposed to be non-binding IF A FATHWA IS EVIL THEN IT IS SPREADING EVIL. We all have a duty to forbid the evil so we have to look beyond people's own definitions of things and realise the evil that they breed.
wasalam
-
And God tells us not to speak without knowledge. That is what happens when people throw opinions of what hadeeth says and make generalizations without understanding the language of hadeeth. If scholars adopted anti women stances, then it is not because of hadeeth, but because of men making the judgement. They would have arrived at the same conclusion whether they were hadeeth followers or Qur'an aloners. That is what men do.
Hussein
-
And God tells us not to speak without knowledge. That is what happens when people throw opinions of what hadeeth says and make generalizations without understanding the language of hadeeth. If scholars adopted anti women stances, then it is not because of hadeeth, but because of men making the judgement. They would have arrived at the same conclusion whether they were hadeeth followers or Qur'an aloners.
salam,
Every single Qur'an-alone person I've come across knows the anti-women nature of the Hadith, and that is not my own opinion but a fact that you too would know if you had studied the Hadith enough. I am yet to find a single Qur'an-alone person who has an anti-women attitude in them like Sunnis do, and I'm not surprised at all because the Qur'an teaches equality and justice between men and women whereas the Hadith are quite the opposite and teach a degrading and subservient role of women. And of-course I AM making a generalisation about Hadith, and rightly so because IN GENERAL THE HADITH ARE ANTI-WOMEN IN THEIR TEXT AND MEANING AND MANY CONTRADICT WITH VERSES FROM THE QUR'AN. This is not only a matter of interpretation; any person with a grasp of the Qur'an will realise the anti-women nature of the Hadith.
wasalam
-
IN GENERAL THE HADITH ARE ANTI-WOMEN IN THEIR TEXT AND MEANING AND MANY CONTRADICT WITH VERSES FROM THE QUR'AN. This is not only a matter of interpretation; any person with a grasp of the Qur'an will realise the anti-women nature of the Hadith.
True and interesting how the same anti-women views prevailed with monks/priests/rabbi?s as well.
Well, I can see that the knowledge of hadeeth on this forum is lacking. I have studied hadeeth and Fiqh and know what they say. I also find lots of reactionary opinions. This is hardly an objective place.
To quote Samia from another post which articulates the hipocracy very well?
What's the blessing in following a group that believes that I will more probably go to hell than to heaven, that my voice is defective and should be scilenced, that I am all defective and should be covered, that I am equal to a black dog, that I am "defficient religiously and mentally", that I am created of a bent rib, that my husband has the right to discipline me if he "fears" rebillion, that he can divorce me with his own will and solely, that he can marry another wife/ves and I will be sinning if I do not accept that; that I have no right to rule a country; that I will lose custody of my children if I remarry, that the compensation for my soul or any organ is half that of a male's, and are agreeing on laws that are taking away what God gave me? That's all agreed upon by the "jamaa3a and ahulus-sunnah". If they don't, dare I ask them to remove these "hadiths",( because all the above is just in hadith, none in the qur'aan)?
A comment from one of the girls in my family about a school fashion show she modeled in with her sister who designed the dresses.
?These so called true followers? bomb mosques filled with women and children ?Oh yes they are definitely going to heaven meanwhile if I wear a pretty summer dress I?m going to HELL!??
316 Wamina alnnasi man yashtaree lahwa alhadeethi liyudilla AAan sabeeli Allahi bighayri AAilmin wayattakhithaha huzuwan olaika lahum AAathabun muheenun
Verse clearly says hadith are ?idle tales? not music.
To play music is Masha'Allah ? God?s gift!
Peace