Obelisk stoning
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Peace
I have to agree, what reason would I have to go all the way to Mecca just to throw rocks and pray around a black box?
While i have read what others say about Hajj=Debate and how pilgrimage is not to Mecca, even if its not true, there is valid points to doing it, whether Mecca or Jerusalem. Its like saying, "Why go to the Mosque?". Not that its going to send you to heaven or not, but you get to socialize with other believers, and lots of other things. To just downplay Hajj as what we traditionally know it, I believe is just as ignorant as following it.
Peace
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Salaam amuslim
So what should one do to not be ignorant? Not follow it but not downplay it in its traditional form? What would be the reason for not follow it if not because one downplays its traditional form?
To just downplay Hajj as what we traditionally know it, I believe is just as ignorant as following it.
Peace
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Salaam
Salaam amuslim
So what should one do to not be ignorant? Not follow it but not downplay it in its traditional form? What would be the reason for not follow it if not because one downplays its traditional form?
I think that people should just keep all possibilities open instead of rushing to conclusion on either sides. For example how some people automatically jump on Sunnis/Shias and then others automatically jump on Quran Alone people. Why cant Hajj and Pilgrimage mean going to a foreign land, because it doesn't make sense? There are good points to doing Hajj and Pilgrimage that one shouldnt just say "thats not what it meant in the quran".
Again Im not taking any sides, but I just feel like a lot of people just think on their side instead of the whole picture.
Peace
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It is amazing when you think about it. The ritual of stoning the obelisk at Hajj.
It is amazing because this negative view about this symbol is taken for granted and glorified by the global elite. Their everywhere.Salam.
When The Ezalted God The Most Powerful seals someone's heart, there's nothing we can do about it.
Peace.
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I'd like to know what the saoudi governement do about all the money the hajj makes. It cost a lot of money to take the plane to arabi saoudite.
It costs 800? to go to Japan, it's twice as far as arabia saoudia, it almost cost twice less money to go to japan.
Wonder what is counted in the expansive ticket to saoudia arabia from france.
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I'd like to know what the saoudi governement do about all the money the hajj makes. It cost a lot of money to take the plane to arabi saoudite.
It costs 800? to go to Japan, it's twice as far as arabia saoudia, it almost cost twice less money to go to japan.
Wonder what is counted in the expansive ticket to saoudia arabia from france.
One thing I know (at least until 2004) This money does not go to the national budget, i.e it does not form part of the national income
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Again Im not taking any sides, but I just feel like a lot of people just think on their side instead of the whole picture.
But thats my problem, I dont have the whole picture, thats why I was asking why I should make any sort of pilgrimage.
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praying namaaz in general is good for your health and also helps strengthen your patience with life. In order to remain united, Submitters must pray in one direction ,whether the house is in Makkah or Jerusalum.
Being able to pray at Makkah and observe the source of this unity, as well as reminding submitters about the struggles of the last prophet, (and earlier ones) enhances ones spirituality, does it not? -
The intent is good but the ritual is not. Simple.
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While i have read what others say about Hajj=Debate and how pilgrimage is not to Mecca, even if its not true, there is valid points to doing it, whether Mecca or Jerusalem. Its like saying, "Why go to the Mosque?". Not that its going to send you to heaven or not, but you get to socialize with other believers, and lots of other things. To just downplay Hajj as what we traditionally know it, I believe is just as ignorant as following it.
Peace
peace,
In my opinion, the best way to get to the truth is starting from the foundation. Which means forgetting everything you know, so what LP and I (and probably others) are wondering is why do it? Not in a sarcastic manner, but really why.. Sure if it makes sense, why not ... but countless people are trampled to death in the traditional hajj... this doesn't look good considering God protects the believers. I definitely am considering all the possiblities, but maybe best way to start is finding out what hajj CANNOT be. I am pretty convinced that the hajj (forget for now if its a ritual or not) is definitely not at mecca, considering a) Abraham didn't buld it (nowhere in the quran thats mentioned) b) According to the quran, muhammad was sent to the people who previously didn't receive a messenger, so abraham and muhammad's locations' cannot be the same by simple logic.
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I think that people should just keep all possibilities open instead of rushing to conclusion on either sides.
that being said you must realise that not everyone involved has rushed to a conclusion... what may be new to alot of people here is the result of years of study for other people
some of us may have come to terms with this 4 or 5 years ago, others perhaps even longer
and there were probably those in previous generations who studied diligently and came to similar conclusions
the worst conclusion really to jump to is "what i have known and been taught is what is right and true"
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Peace LP,
I have to agree, what reason would I have to go all the way to Mecca just to throw rocks and pray around a black box?
In paganism, the black box is a female symbol. It represents the mysterious beauty of female fertility godesses. This is why there is a vagina-shaped opening in one of its corners precisely facing the winter sunrise (the direction where the sun that brings fertility is "re-born" every year). Coming out of the vagina-shaped opening is the black stone representing the crown of the head of the re-born idol.
On the other hand, in paganism the obelisk is a male symbol. It represents the penis and male power.
So to answer your question, the real reason why anyone would go to Mecca would be to venerate the symbol of the Arab female goddess (Allat) and stone the male symbol. Such idols and false rituals have nothing to do with the god.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace LP,
In paganism, the black box is a female symbol. It represents the mysterious beauty of female fertility godesses. This is why there is a vagina-shaped opening in one of its corners precisely facing the winter sunrise (the direction where the sun that brings fertility is "re-born" every year). Coming out of the vagina-shaped opening is the black stone representing the crown of the head of the re-born idol.
On the other hand, in paganism the obelisk is a male symbol. It represents the penis and male power.
So to answer your question, the real reason why anyone would go to Mecca would be to venerate the symbol of the Arab female goddess (Allat) and stone the male symbol. Such idols and false rituals have nothing to do with the god.
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman, all
Do you know how these pagan rituals got incorporated into Islam? Is there an article or something regarding this? I wish to increase my knowledge about this, any help would be appreciated.
Peace
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Peace
peace,
In my opinion, the best way to get to the truth is starting from the foundation. Which means forgetting everything you know, so what LP and I (and probably others) are wondering is why do it? Not in a sarcastic manner, but really why.. Sure if it makes sense, why not ... but countless people are trampled to death in the traditional hajj... this doesn't look good considering God protects the believers. I definitely am considering all the possiblities, but maybe best way to start is finding out what hajj CANNOT be. I am pretty convinced that the hajj (forget for now if its a ritual or not) is definitely not at mecca, considering a) Abraham didn't buld it (nowhere in the quran thats mentioned) b) According to the quran, muhammad was sent to the people who previously didn't receive a messenger, so abraham and muhammad's locations' cannot be the same by simple logic.
Right, I saw the chart on how far Abraham would have had to travel to Mecca. Makes more sense that the area would be around the Temple Mount as it was pointed out.
What I am saying is that the IDEA of Hajj is actually has valid points. Again, back to the story of going to Mosque. Todays mosque separates women from men, even though the Quran doesnt say it and maybe some people think it shouldnt be that way. But the idea of communing with fellow Muslims and being in that environment is helpful to the person.
I agree that the hajj that they do is not really beneficial, having people dying and them saying that they were martyred. However, I do like the idea of all of the world going, putting down their status in life, and living simple and dedicate it towards God. Again, its not like we shouldnt do that everyday, but the environment makes you stronger. Its like how one would act outside of mosque compared to inside. We should always be on our best but being in that environment makes you stay stronger. Same with performing Salat.
Peace
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forget the ritual,
what gets me pissed is how the zionist (who are in fact Luciferian in belief), use this damned symbol in architecture around the world
Hi....can i ask you, do you actually know what Luciferian actually means?
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Peace,
Isn't Lucifer another name for the Devil himself!?
Majidah