Allat was referred to as al-Kubra (The Greatest one)
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You take it completely out of context. The pagan deities are mostly feminine and the next verses regard the assignment of the genders, with respect to this.
I think I misunderstood what you're getting at though.
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You take it completely out of context. The pagan deities are mostly feminine and the next verses regard the assignment of the genders, with respect to this.
I think I misunderstood what you're getting at though.
I agree, but that is the point... I am getting at the detached context from verse 18 to 19... why the sudden jump? What's the link? That is my point...
I agree that it is to differenciate between the understanding of pagans v/s the understanding of the prophet, and the gender bias.
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I don't know. Continue in your research
The surah is written towards the pagans, hence the first part challenges their initial beliefs about the messenger, the second part addresses that. Aren't these shifts very common in the Quran?
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They appear to be, but as I have demonstrated, there must be a link...
Another example is that of the surah Israa, verses 1 and 2 ... what do al masjid al haraam and al masjid al aqsaa in verse 1 have to do with Moses in verse 2 (by traditional standards) ... are we misunderstanding verse 1? As shown by some people on this forum, indeed people have misunderstood the verse#1 which is talking about Moses and not Muhammad.
Exalted (is) | the Being | (who) took/caused-to-tread | His Servant | by night (of ignorance?) | from | The Institution of Submitting-to/Obeying | The Restriction | towards | The Institution of The Most-Firm/Concrete Submission | that | We have blessed | surroundings/state of which | to show him | from | Our signs | Indeed | He is | The Hearer | The Knower
And what is the result of this state of mind called al Masjid il Aqsaa?
And | We bestowed upon | Moses | The Law | and We Turned it into | guidance | for Children of | he-who-journeyed-to-El | that you take not | from | other than Me | a disposer
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I don't know. Continue in your research
The surah is written towards the pagans, hence the first part challenges their initial beliefs about the messenger, the second part addresses that. Aren't these shifts very common in the Quran?
precisely! so what I am trying to get at is that if a pagan Arab in the 7th century would read upto verse 18, what would come to his mind when he reads the word "al-Kubraa" ... the rest follows in verse 19
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I would like to state here for sake of argument that the diacritical pronouncintion of is al-kub(e)raa and not al-kubraa... even though there is a JAZM on the Baa, the fact that it has a vowalic reberbic end (called QALQALAH) it can in fact be transliterated as Chobaraa. I am still not sure why the ending is left out, or maybe I am totally wrong about this.
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I think the last quote alone is remarkable. Nothing more to be said )
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I think the last quote alone is remarkable. Nothing more to be said )
ok ok ) maybe I'm wrong, but what about the attached image with the lexican meaning. Akbar as is Allah-u Akbar, is the male form, Kub(e)raa is the female form while Kub(e)r(an) is the non-gender/epithet form...
We know they called the black stone "Stone" (Hajr) ... and they referred to Allat as "chobar" ... so gramatically it can only be referring to Kub(e)raa and not Kub(e)r(an)
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Peace Maxq,
Why all of a sudden Allat and the rest of the divine female trio... were they somehow considered the signs of God? Was one of them referred to as Kubraa that there would be such a shift from the mention of revelation to a challenge to the pagans? The detour is too great and the context is a bit detached.. of course, the idea is to mention to the pagans that their understanding is twisted, but still the verses seem a bit detached, os what if there is more than meets the eye?
The signs from the god that the prophet saw (he saw) is what is talked about in 18 as being "kobra" (great). Signs by definition provide guidance. This is put in contrast to the idols his people have seen (have you seen). Idols don't guide anyone. His people are following their fantasies. The lessons in chapter 53 are independent of what 8th century sources say. The god in 5318 uses "kobra" as a common noun. On the other hand, Kabar or Kobar as used by Arabs in the 8th century is the proper name of an idol-head represented by a black stone.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace bro Ayman
Yes this makes sense to me...
This part of my question/statement is refuted. So yes she would not be called al-kubraa, but kubar or kabar.But I must point out that according to John of Damascus, the black stone was called "Stone" (I am assuming he meant Hajr) ... he then mentions that the stone is the head of Aphrodite, whom they call "Chabar/Chobar" in their language. So Allat is being called Chabar, not the stone...
My second question was, for us to undertsand why is there a jump between verse 18 and 19, we have to read on to verse 25 to get the context. If I were an Arab pagan, even if I called Allat as Chobar and not Kubraa, the moment I reach the end of verse 18, something in my mind would sort of click as to what might follow. But yes I understand that is futile question as I am not an Arab pagan an this is not the 7th or 8th centure CE. I hope D