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progod

Genteel,

I see that this discussion is like talking to the air. You are not going to here what I am saying. You ask me to bring proof of where the Quran says it is for all times, and then claim that you are right that the Quran was only revealed for the people of the 6th century; whereas I obviously have more in my favor as the Quran says that it is for all mankind (OBVIOSLY MANKIND DURING ITS REVELATION AND AFTER IT) and can point to something that lends to the idea that the Quran is for all mankind after its revelation, you assume something that has absolutely no helping verses or ideas within the Quran, but which you conjectured all on your own. Genteel this idea of yours is conjecture on your part pure and simple. The Quran saying that it is for Mankind is enough to support what I am saying, and enough to go against what you are saying.

Also who said that I think we should be riding camels and donkeys on highways? Did I ever say that? Why are you trying to put words into my mouth? Does the Quran say that we should ride donkeys and camels only? Where are you getting this stuff from
? It is one thing to say that the Quran laws are timeless and another thing to say that we are supposed to maintian our environments like the environment of the revelation of the Quran (6th century Arabian environments). Does the Quran ever say that? Where are you getting this stuff from? And what's more, why are you resorting to extreme arguments to support your case?

As it concerns a month, go to lane and do the calculations yourself and you will see that 30 sunrise to sunrise days is right there before your eyes, and equals 29 sundown to sundown days. Secondly the Quran implies this where 2 months of fasting can be compensated by feeding 60 people, and that one day's fast is to be compensated by feeding 1 person. I am not inventing this if you looked and thought on it you would see this.

In the end, believe what you like. You totally misunderstood what I was saying about the pregnancy issue as well. However as a final word I'll recap

Pregancy might be only ONE (among many) reasons for 3 MENSTRUAL PERIODS (not months) of waiting for the divorced woman. God knows best.
If pregnancy is one of the reasons let us consider that this is a practical method for women of all economic classes, lifestyles and resources. Not everyone lives in an area or can afford to have blood tests done to be completely sure of their pregnancy.
Again God knows best and it is not best for us once we are sure of His book and Him to doubt his commands.

Do you eat pastured, organic, well cooked pork?
Cows that have been beaten over the head, to be slaughtered?
Do you have protected sex with more than one partner(man or woman) to whom you are not married or engaged (if your mate is of your opposite sex)?
Will you have unprotected sex with your siblings or your parents?

These are all safe activities and Old traditions only good for when the Quran was revealed according to you, now that we have condoms, birth control, and as long as we raise our pigs naturally and cook them well.

These are some of the logical ramifications of what you are saying. I totally, totally totally disagree with you, and I find your thinking to be a perversion of the heart. However that is your choice, may God guide you. {Peace.

Godbless,
Anwar

unknownuser

Thanks. I haven't studied inheritance in the Quran yet.
Good, I hope you study the entire Quran well enough before asking for inapplicable verses pertaining to our current generation and there are several. I just gave you one example of inheritance as requested and the other being discussed (waiting periods after divorce).

As for the verses cited, the overwhelming number of those have been found to have relatively little to do with "cutting hands and feet" and so on. The only such thing that stands up is whipping.
All the verses that I cited previously are not specific to "cutting hands and feet". Please read carefully.

As for the Quran being for all times 2185, 33, 3138, 544, 1057, 1855, many more.
Those verse has nothing to do with "ALL TIMES". ???

Peace!

unknownuser

I asked for the "inapplicable verses" for that very reason.

As for that, what connotations does mankind bring? How many mankinds are there? How do we count the number of mankinds?

unknownuser

... the Quran says that it is for all mankind (OBVIOSLY MANKIND DURING ITS REVELATION AND AFTER IT) and can point to something that lends to the idea that the Quran is for all mankind after its revelation,...
Unlike yourself, the answer has already been presented without deviance, hypothesis or wanton claims. Mankind does not mean "for all times". Please re-read my previous post. It also goes against verses such as 2134, 2141, 2143. Quran is a guidance (counseling) and a reflection of the past. Laws, rules and conditions change and have been changed from time to time. There is no question about that.

As it concerns a month, go to lane and do the calculations yourself and you will see that 30 sunrise to sunrise days is right there before your eyes, and equals 29 sundown to sundown days. Secondly the Quran implies this where 2 months of fasting can be compensated by feeding 60 people, and that one day's fast is to be compensated by feeding 1 person. I am not inventing this if you looked and thought on it you would see this.
All the above has nothing to do with "shahr" being 29 or 30 days and neither the Quran specifically mentions that. The number of days to fast in Ramadan is also not mentioned. The 2 months of fasting to feed 60 people has also nothing to do with Ramadan and that too is inapplicable and meaningless today. Good grief! o

Pregancy might be only ONE (among many) reasons for 3 MENSTRUAL PERIODS (not months) of waiting for the divorced woman.
If pregnancy is one of the reasons let us consider that this is a practical method for women of all economic classes, lifestyles and resources. Not everyone lives in an area or can afford to have blood tests done to be completely sure of their pregnancy.
There is absolutely nothing practical about waiting 3 months AFTER DIVORCE to "test" for pregnancy given the already 4 months BEFORE divorce, in which both the "pregnancy" and the "reconciliation" can be meted out. The marriage relationship ENDS after divorce. It's a whole different matter if they wish to re-marry.

... now that we have condoms, birth control,
Excellent achievement.

I'm afraid, your arguments are baseless and bears no credit.

Peace!

unknownuser

I asked for the "inapplicable verses" for that very reason.

As for the verses cited, the overwhelming number of those have been found to have relatively little to do with "cutting hands and feet" and so on.

All the verses that I cited previously are not specific to "cutting hands and feet". Please read carefully.

progod

Peace,

Genteel
2134, 2141, 2143. are your proof?

The first two verses are talking about Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac and Job and his sons. God bless them all. And the second Ja&lnaa can mean 'We have made' not the purely past tense 'We made.' There is no way you can fit your understanding into these passages in anyway or with the rest of the Quran.

May you and others forgive me for the truth that I am about to say but,
You are a twister of the Quran and a rejector of the book if I have ever seen one. And if you haven't realized this yet then there is no point to this exchange with you. Repent from your ways and hold strongly to what God has sent down as the Quran says you should. If you don't then you are a muharrif(tiwster) and a kafir(denier) OF THE Quran, and blatantly so.

In the end your faith will be judged by God, but I will say to you clearly that I do not agree with you and will never agree to this illogical and blasphemous way of thinking of yours. If you want my advice, believe in the whole of the Quran, as ALL of it is from God. If you cannot then accept that either you have not reached a personal understanding of the book to make you agree with it or that you are a blatant rejector of it. If you cannot agree to even this and this makes you angry then I must say that this is hypocrisy and undercover kufr in God and His book, if I have ever seen any kind of hypocrisy & undercover kufr. Good day and God bless you, and may he guide you to the right way.

Godbless,
Anwar

P.S.
(As it concerns the month,(and this is an issue that YOU brought up, not me, as I know this has nothing to do with what we are talking about) you will not find the exact words that a month is 29 or 30 days in the Quran (although it is implied) but you WILL find it in the dictionaries expressedly stated and implied (see Lane's Lexicon for shahr). Again 29 or 30 night to night (Islamic days) will always equal 30 sunrise to sunrise (Quranic) days before the new months begins. But why did you even bring this up? As you state you believe that fasting for Ramadan or fasting to compensate for any sin is obsolete and doesn't apply to you anyway.) You don't have to reply to this as this is more for everyone else reading along besides you. Again, peace and may God guide you to the right way.

unknownuser

Anwar, giveup

Peace!

progod

Genteel,

Me too. giveup
'(

Salam.

Godbless,
Anwar

unknownuser

I haven't.

Alright, the evidence is not direct (there is, but I forgot where), in the same way that Muhammad is indirectly established as the prophet who recieved the Quran, but

006.025
YUSUFALI Of them there are some who (pretend to) listen to thee; but We have thrown veils on their hearts, So they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they saw every one of the signs, not they will believe in them; in so much that when they come to thee, they (but) dispute with thee; the Unbelievers say "These are nothing but tales of the ancients."

008.031
YUSUFALI When Our Signs are rehearsed to them, they say "We have heard this (before) if we wished, we could say (words) like these these are nothing but tales of the ancients."

016.024
YUSUFALI When it is said to them, "What is it that your Lord has revealed?" they say, "Tales of the ancients!"

You get the picture...

Anyway, how many mankinds are there?

unknownuser

I haven't.

Alright, the evidence is not direct (there is, but I forgot where), in the same way that Muhammad is indirectly established as the prophet who recieved the Quran, but

006.025
YUSUFALI Of them there are some who (pretend to) listen to thee; but We have thrown veils on their hearts, So they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they saw every one of the signs, not they will believe in them; in so much that when they come to thee, they (but) dispute with thee; the Unbelievers say "These are nothing but tales of the ancients."

008.031
YUSUFALI When Our Signs are rehearsed to them, they say "We have heard this (before) if we wished, we could say (words) like these these are nothing but tales of the ancients."

016.024
YUSUFALI When it is said to them, "What is it that your Lord has revealed?" they say, "Tales of the ancients!"

You get the picture...
Try harder and you shall get both the evidence and the picture.

Anyway, how many mankinds are there?
Three!

unknownuser

A) Is that not exactly what you are saying, tales of the ancients?

B) Explain?