gabriel and michael
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Forgot to add, one can?t always take Classical Arabic root words as Qur?an and it?s usually best to extrapolate meanings from context; e.g. me saying ?today is Friday? has nothing to do with the beauty goddess Freyja from which the name is derived.
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Peace,
Growing up in a temple, growing up to be a nun, suddenly a man approaches you to announce a son, yes I can imagine her freaking out.
1919 does not make him an "angel", only a messenger, a human with a Divine Decree he received.
345 says about Malikah announcing the birth of a son. Malikah is not a title but a definition, describing the function of a thing, be it a being or a lifeless thing. Malikah refers to "Something that controls and sustains a realm". That realm can be nature, thus Laws of nature, or powerfull persons.
The laws of nature announced to her the birth of her son, and the messenger anounced to her his role and position in the world. The forces of nature and the messenger are Malikah, they uphold the definition of having power over certain realms in nature, not the title/label the tradition gives to malikah. The laws of nature showed her the signs of being pregnant, the bigger belly, the nausia and so on. The messenger told her the Decrees of Allah.
The verses of Allah are being very limited and closed up by not seeing the definition He used, people only see the labels given by tradition.
And in EVERY human is the Ruh present. Again what has the mythical idea of angels to do with this? This concept is forced on these stories through tradition. How much people follow the Quran "alone", their mind is still caged up in traditional boundaries.
"Once I perfect him, and mark him with/through/of My Ruh/Energy, you shall serve him."
Of course the context is the key to understanding, but what people see is the context is still mostly influenced by tradition and majority thinking that is imprinted into your subconciousness and determines the limits of possibilities you see.
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Peace,
Growing up in a temple, growing up to be a nun, suddenly a man approaches you to announce a son, yes I can imagine her freaking out.
Not if that was her husband.
The laws of nature showed her the signs of being pregnant, the bigger belly, the nausia and so on. The messenger told her the Decrees of Allah.
If so, then why?
1920 She said "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
Of course the context is the key to understanding, but what people see is the context is still mostly influenced by tradition and majority thinking that is imprinted into your subconciousness and determines the limits of possibilities you see.
Btw, where did you get ?nun in the temple? from; reading Jewish hearsay imprinted into your subconscious perhaps?
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Peace,
Clearly from her reaction it was a man she did not know yet so it was a messenger bringing her the news, or her future husband that was chosen by a messenger to be her husband and bring her the news. Whatever it was, it does not matter.
345 is talking about the different stages of giving her the signs, 1918-20 talks about a direct conversation. And 345-48 more about a series of events spread out. People mix these two to much up I believe and forget that the Quran skips and mixes time in many verses.
And for her being brought up in the temple, it is a mix of understandings in the Quranic story and research in history on the Qumran site and its mission the Essenes had. Their lifestyle and beliefs is very simialir to the story in the Quran.
Interresting though, that people find mythical angels and virginbirths more logical then human messengers coming to a nun and appoint her for marriage and a child prophet, and also try to refute it just because it coincides with historical findings.
Whatever floats your boat...
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Peace,
Clearly from her reaction it was a man she did not know yet so it was a messenger bringing her the news, or her future husband that was chosen by a messenger to be her husband and bring her the news. Whatever it was, it does not matter.
It?s a matter of serious concern and a clear distinction exists?
Allahu yastafee mina almalaikati rusulan wamina alnnasi inna Allaha sameeAAun baseerun
2275 God chooses from the angels messengers, and from the people, that truly God (is) hearing/listening, seeing/understandingInterresting though, that people find mythical angels and virginbirths more logical then human messengers coming to a nun and appoint her for marriage and a child prophet, and also try to refute it just because it coincides with historical findings.
Whatever floats your boat...
No, don?t have a boat ? yes, believe in angels float it.
351 Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs) He adds to Creation as He pleases for Allah has power over all things.
There is no reliable history only hearsay and conjectures pertaining to the matter.
http//ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/JewishJesus/toledoth.html
At the close of a certain Sabbath, Joseph Pandera, attractive and like a warrior in appearance, having gazed lustfully upon Miriam, knocked upon the door of her room and betrayed her by pretending that he was her betrothed husband, Yohanan. Even so, she was amazed at this improper conduct and submitted only against her will.
4156 That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against MARY a grave false charge;
4157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ JESUS the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not-
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peace bro arnold,
can i pick your brain for your thoughts on the virgin birth interpretation?
also what do you make of the other named "angels" in the quran?
Please see my article on angels and my book evolution of thinking
http//19.org/index.php?arnold
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Peace,
Allahu yastafee mina almalaikati rusulan wamina alnnasi inna Allaha sameeAAun baseerun
To my understanding, this verse refers to that the Universal Forces are used to convey the Message to the People, and this is done through the Rasools. The verse in my eyes doesn't really say it uses Malikah that directly talk to people. This is also why I agree with G.A.Parwez's rendition
- (As regards the Malaika, the heavenly forces; and the Anbia, which people consider as their deities; the correct status is that) Allah selects some of the Malaika to convey His Wahi to the Rusul; and He also selects some humans to convey this Wahi to other human beings. (All these beings can neither wield any power or authority of their own, nor can they convey peoples needs unto Allah. Allah does not require such assistance.) He Himself is All-hearing, All-seeing.
351 Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs) He adds to Creation as He pleases for Allah has power over all things.
This is a very limited and very wrong understanding of this verse. Sadly people keep approaching the Quran as a religious message and not a Divine Guide into the Universal workings.
This is my rendition of the verse
351 All Praise is due to Allah, the Originator=fatiri of all Highs and their Lows, Who appoints His Universal Forces as message-bearers having abilities=ajnihatin two, three and four. (The physical laws in the Universe, have more than one function). He increases in creation what He Will. For, Allah is the Appointer of due measure of all things, and He is Able to do all things.
or
- All Hamd is for Allah the Almighty (11), Who brought the entire universe into being out of nothingness. He has made the heavenly forces a medium to complete His schemes; and some of the forces are multi-functional, each having two, three or four capabilities. He is not sitting idle after creating the universe, but continues to add new creations to it every now and then, as He wills. He has set measures (and laws) according to which everything functions; and He has full control over them.
To understand the complete meaning of this verse, we must look at the words used. Allah is mentioned here with one of His Attributes, Fatir. This comes from the root fatara, which means to cleave or break, also it means bring forth and to create something new or for the first time.
Scholar Muhammed Ali believes it refers to the creation of matter at the BigBang, which I agree with. As the BigBang was cleaving/disunite the merged energy and creating it into something new, matter. This is exactly the 2 meanings of the word fatara . Also from the same root, is the word fitrah, meaning compensition or originial substance, and thus refers to that all creation had the same origin of compensition.
This is why one of the understood meanings of Allah's name Fitrah is The Gift to know Allah through which He created Mankind. As fitrah, the original substance of mankind connects directly with the Maker of the fitrah. When this is all understood, then the true concept of the rest of the verse will become clear.
The word jiniha or janah, is normally translated with wing. But this in no way refers to a real wing like that of a bird. Janaha in Classic Arabic refers to power, as an old Arab saying goes Huwa maqsoes al-janah meaning, his wing is cut refering that that person has no strenght or ability and even that such a person is infertile.
Ajnihatun coming from the same root, also means Wing of an Army or Shelter or Protection.
So this shows that the Malikah mentioned in this verse has multiple powers and abilities in the creation. So which Malikah are referred to in this verse then? The verse already starts with the Attribute of Fatir, the Originator of all energy of the Creation. And in the last part of the verse it says 'He increases in creation what He Will'. So these Malikah are Laws that control the growth process of the Creation. During the BigBang, innumerable laws sprung forth that determined the flow of the energy and guided it into matter and magnetic forces and other forces. So it are these Laws, for example the Planck Constant, that are the Malikah as told of in this verse.
When it comes to the history of Jesus, there are many sides to it, especially since we found the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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Peace,
1917 (Since she was not used to mixing with people), she had chosen
seclusion from them. Then We sent to her Our Roohan/Power, Dominance, Conquest, Good and pure thing, Mercy, Aid against the Enemy that appeared to her in the shape of a well-made human being.God sent her aid in the form of a man, meaning a husband or a person that will help arrange her flee from the temple. People follow the Biblical story to closely and neglect the many possible understandings the Arabic can give us.
Peace ;
Can you please explain how is it possible that a "human being" came and the Holy Quran used the word for him " Tamassala ( ).
What does "Tamassala" mean? Can you give some example in Arabic literature which says " A human being appeared before someone "resembling" a human being? Are you ridiculing the Quran or yourself? -
Peace,
Allahu yastafee mina almalaikati rusulan wamina alnnasi inna Allaha sameeAAun baseerun
To my understanding, this verse refers to that the Universal Forces are used to convey the Message to the People, and this is done through the Rasools. The verse in my eyes doesn't really say it uses Malikah that directly talk to people. This is also why I agree with G.A.Parwez's rendition
- (As regards the Malaika, the heavenly forces; and the Anbia, which people consider as their deities; the correct status is that) Allah selects some of the Malaika to convey His Wahi to the Rusul; and He also selects some humans to convey this Wahi to other human beings. (All these beings can neither wield any power or authority of their own, nor can they convey people?s needs unto Allah. Allah does not require such assistance.) He Himself is All-hearing, All-seeing.
He contradicted himself on 339 which they do talk to God and people...
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/expo/expo_003.htm
Whilst he was still praying in the temple, the Malaika said to him, ?Allah has sent you the glad tidings of the birth of (a son) John, who will testify to Allah?s Laws. He will be a great leader maintaining discipline amongst his followers and (a person with outstanding capabilities; in short) a Nabi from among the S?aliheen.?
230 Behold, thy Lord said to the ANGELS "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said "I know what ye know not."
342 Behold! the ANGELS said "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.
During the BigBang, innumerable laws sprung forth that determined the flow of the energy and guided it into matter and magnetic forces and other forces. So it are these Laws, for example the Planck Constant, that are the Malikah as told of in this verse.
Angels are real ?beings? whereas we ?make up stuff? to describe laws of physics such as constants or ?imaginary? numbers like i (square root of -1) thus we cannot say God will not break laws since we don?t know ALL the laws or if a greater understanding of reality (e.g. Einstein?s General Theory of Relativity expounded on Newton?s laws) in the future to learn what those ?wings? really are ? obviously they?re not made of feathers.
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Peace,
This again shows how taking words as titles or as defintions differ. I explained already earlier that the term Malikah is a description and not a label for one thing. I believe it can also stand for humans who has power over a certain matter.
Our approaches are to different to come to an agreement, so we can agree to disagree.
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Peace,
This again shows how taking words as titles or as defintions differ. I explained already earlier that the term Malikah is a description and not a label for one thing. I believe it can also stand for humans who has power over a certain matter.
Our approaches are to different to come to an agreement, so we can agree to disagree.
Peace
My question about "tamassala" still exists.Please do respond or admist that you are trying to manipulate the Quranic text. -
Peace,
Sorry Leoxyz I had missed your question. fatamaththala also means to represent, so it can be understood as the messenger appearing to her represented for her a sound/right man.
And just because it differs with the common understanding does not make it manipulation. This site studies the Quranic text and the possibilities of the Arabic language it uses. What I present is my current understanding after researching the subjects, as it is nothing more then research, you always can disagree with it.
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Peace,
Sorry Leoxyz I had missed your question. fatamaththala also means to represent, so it can be understood as the messenger appearing to her represented for her a sound/right man.
And just because it differs with the common understanding does not make it manipulation. This site studies the Quranic text and the possibilities of the Arabic language it uses. What I present is my current understanding after researching the subjects, as it is nothing more then research, you always can disagree with it.
peace
So if we replace word "Rasool" with " her husband".We will translate it as
"Her husband represented to her as a human being?"
This is what you want to say ?
Secondly where did you get this translation of "tamassala" for representation ?
Again waiting for reply