Was the Bible and Torah corrupted? What does Quran say?
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Correct, definitely. The corruption in the Bible is self-evident, however. Jesus being transformed into a god, and his signs bestowed being transformed into gody powers, also.
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Peace
Jesus never claims divinity in the Old Testament. I also watched a video from Dr Zakir Naik about Jesus and the resurrection. He states that Jesus wasn't Crucified (meaning died on the cross) but that he survived it. His reasoning behind it was that Jesus' death was only hearsay from the Roman soldiers, no one actually saw it. He was put in the sepulcher and Mary would go to wash his feet. He said that Jews dont practice such a thing with the dead. Also, Jesus was dressed as a Gardener. Why would he do that if he wasnt afraid of the Romans finding out that he was alive? Even Mary didnt recognize him at first. He also stated to the disciples when they called him a ghost, "A spirit is not made of flesh and bones". I think that all of this resurrection business is not really in the Gospels after I heard his explanation. Theres 8 parts to the video, heres part 1 if you wish to view it in detail http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJOn4lFVkIw
Some parts are from a Christian guy, as its a debate. Some is from Naik. Theres also a question and answer from both of them in the last parts.Peace
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Peace
Jesus never claims divinity in the Old Testament. I also watched a video from Dr Zakir Naik about Jesus and the resurrection. He states that Jesus wasn't Crucified (meaning died on the cross) but that he survived it. His reasoning behind it was that Jesus' death was only hearsay from the Roman soldiers, no one actually saw it. He was put in the sepulcher and Mary would go to wash his feet. He said that Jews dont practice such a thing with the dead. Also, Jesus was dressed as a Gardener. Why would he do that if he wasnt afraid of the Romans finding out that he was alive? Even Mary didnt recognize him at first. He also stated to the disciples when they called him a ghost, "A spirit is not made of flesh and bones". I think that all of this resurrection business is not really in the Gospels after I heard his explanation. Theres 8 parts to the video, heres part 1 if you wish to view it in detail http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJOn4lFVkIw
Some parts are from a Christian guy, as its a debate. Some is from Naik. Theres also a question and answer from both of them in the last parts.Peace
Correct, Jesus never. Others did
What I mean, also, is that the gospels are "hadeeth", also with a very hearsay nature, I don't understand the logic - did St Paul, Mark, Matthew and others each get sent down a book from God?
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Salaam
Correct, Jesus never. Others did
What I mean, also, is that the gospels are "hadeeth", also with a very hearsay nature, I don't understand the logic - did St Paul, Mark, Matthew and others each get sent down a book from God?
I agree with it being hadeeth. About Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they had it on the History channel and I think they said that its possible that someone wrote at least 2 of them themselves. Something about P or Q, I forgot what they named the author.
Either way, it quotes Jesus speaking about pure monotheism, just as Islam. Why would God cower that he would be crucified and pray to Himself to save him from the ordeal?
The way I see it, you should know God and whats right WITHOUT a book or teaching. If you need to be taught it, then its mostly a fake. Like the Quran states, we have the natural instinct, fitrah, in Allah.
Was Salaam
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Salaam
I agree with it being hadeeth. About Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they had it on the History channel and I think they said that its possible that someone wrote at least 2 of them themselves. Something about P or Q, I forgot what they named the author.
Either way, it quotes Jesus speaking about pure monotheism, just as Islam. Why would God cower that he would be crucified and pray to Himself to save him from the ordeal?
The way I see it, you should know God and whats right WITHOUT a book or teaching. If you need to be taught it, then its mostly a fake. Like the Quran states, we have the natural instinct, fitrah, in Allah.
Was Salaam
Exactly! Very well put.
It's also interesting how "Islamic" hadith are so close to the Gospels, just referring to different prophets. They're both recorded by humans sometime after the prophets' deaths. Further, on a more comedic note, the hadith and the Gospels both have four "books." Astonishing how closely they resemble each other.
Peace all
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Peace
Exactly! Very well put.
It's also interesting how "Islamic" hadith are so close to the Gospels, just referring to different prophets. They're both recorded by humans sometime after the prophets' deaths. Further, on a more comedic note, the hadith and the Gospels both have four "books." Astonishing how closely they resemble each other.
Peace all
Thanks. Maybe it is a sign for us? The Gospels, like the Hadiths, have some good messages. To say that it was garbage would be as ignorant as saying that it is Gods Word. I personally do like the Gospels due to the fact that it describes a lot of what the Quran says about Jesus. It kind of fits in place. Of course theres some descripancies between it and Quran but nothing major like Jesus claiming Divinity.
Peace
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Peace
Thanks. Maybe it is a sign for us? The Gospels, like the Hadiths, have some good messages. To say that it was garbage would be as ignorant as saying that it is Gods Word. I personally do like the Gospels due to the fact that it describes a lot of what the Quran says about Jesus. It kind of fits in place. Of course theres some descripancies between it and Quran but nothing major like Jesus claiming Divinity.
Peace
Yeah of course, there is truth found in both ahadith and the Gospels, but who knows which parts are true and which aren't. They should only be taken for historical help, not for guidance regarding the deen.
Peace
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Peace
Yeah of course, there is truth found in both ahadith and the Gospels, but who knows which parts are true and which aren't. They should only be taken for historical help, not for guidance regarding the deen.
Peace
I agree with that. What is your take on the rest of the NT? Like Pauls notes? I dont understand why they included his letters in the Bible at all. I guess since he was the major contributer to Christianity they felt the need to include it? I know that they have taken things out of the Bible before. Odd how it used to be the word of god and then they took it out.
Peace
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Peace
I agree with that. What is your take on the rest of the NT? Like Pauls notes? I dont understand why they included his letters in the Bible at all. I guess since he was the major contributer to Christianity they felt the need to include it? I know that they have taken things out of the Bible before. Odd how it used to be the word of god and then they took it out.
Peace
26 letters from Paul are in the NT, I believe. I guess people were gullible? And included his works in the NT. As you said, he was the founder of Christianity as we know it today. Afterwards, things like the Council of Nicaea further facilitated the corruption of Jesus' words and caused an orthodox Christianity. Various sects that had different views (including not believing in Jesus' divinity) were immediately shut up and belief in the trinity and Jesus' divinity was the new standard. It's just human nature I guess, happens with ever prophet
Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman is a good read. Check it out if you haven't already.
Peace
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26 letters from Paul are in the NT, I believe. I guess people were gullible? And included his works in the NT. As you said, he was the founder of Christianity as we know it today. Afterwards, things like the Council of Nicaea further facilitated the corruption of Jesus' words and caused an orthodox Christianity. Various sects that had different views (including not believing in Jesus' divinity) were immediately shut up and belief in the trinity and Jesus' divinity was the new standard. It's just human nature I guess, happens with ever prophet
Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman is a good read. Check it out if you haven't already.
Peace
Wow 26? I knew it was a lot but didnt actually count them. I wonder if it was true that he really was a orthodox rabbi, or did he just make it seem that way to make others convert?
The Nicaea one Ive read about. I think it was a debate against Jesus being in the beginning or being a creation. Arius vs Athanasius I believe it was, and Constantine CHOSE what was correct. Its funny that you have to vote to choose whats the correct religion. What if there were 29 votes that were all wrong?
About every prophet thats so true. People seem to worship the exact things they are told not to. As far as that book I am looking for it online right now, thanks for the tip. I bet the Christians say, "O its from a Jew, thats why".
Peace
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Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman is a good read. Check it out if you haven't already.
Peace
Wow 26? I knew it was a lot but didnt actually count them. I wonder if it was true that he really was a orthodox rabbi, or did he just make it seem that way to make others convert?
The Nicaea one Ive read about. I think it was a debate against Jesus being in the beginning or being a creation. Arius vs Athanasius I believe it was, and Constantine CHOSE what was correct. Its funny that you have to vote to choose whats the correct religion. What if there were 29 votes that were all wrong?
About every prophet thats so true. People seem to worship the exact things they are told not to. As far as that book I am looking for it online right now, thanks for the tip. I bet the Christians say, "O its from a Jew, thats why".
Peace
He overlooked Jesus' crucifixion (as Christians believe) then afterwards he supposedly saw Jesus in spirit and decided to repent. And for some reason, people believe this? It's laughable. This is the crutch for most of the NT today.
The voting thing is truly hilarious.
People tend to be drawn to physical things/people because it's easier to believe in. Definitely check out the book, Ehrman actually used to be Christian. He explains how he became aware of this in the intro.
Peace
Indeed, the voting thing is hilarious
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Peace
He overlooked Jesus' crucifixion (as Christians believe) then afterwards he supposedly saw Jesus in spirit and decided to repent. And for some reason, people believe this? It's laughable. This is the crutch for most of the NT today.
The voting thing is truly hilarious.
People tend to be drawn to physical things/people because it's easier to believe in. Definitely check out the book, Ehrman actually used to be Christian. He explains how he became aware of this in the intro.
Peace
Indeed, the voting thing is hilarious
Right, I remember it now that he saw the spirit of Jesus. Before this he had apparently stoned Christians. Its funny that people believe this, yet theres people that spew this exact same thing. Such as seeing the Virgin Mary in a tortilla. Thats actually an anecdote, as it was sold on eBay I believe.
Im getting the book, cant wait to read it. Hopefully Ill get it by tom to read. If he used to be a Christian, did he change his last name or something? Ehrman makes me think he's Jewish. Like a Weinstein or Goldberg.
As far as voting is concerned, that has to be the least legitimate way to solidify the religion of the state. If the scripture doesnt agree with the hearsay of the people, it shouldnt be followed (ie Jesus being God). Whats more, if the scripture contradicts itself, such as circumcision and other Jewish traditions being outdone by Paul, it definitely shouldn't be followed. "Lets vote to eat pork" is basically what they did.
Peace
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Peace
Right, I remember it now that he saw the spirit of Jesus. Before this he had apparently stoned Christians. Its funny that people believe this, yet theres people that spew this exact same thing. Such as seeing the Virgin Mary in a tortilla. Thats actually an anecdote, as it was sold on eBay I believe.
Im getting the book, cant wait to read it. Hopefully Ill get it by tom to read. If he used to be a Christian, did he change his last name or something? Ehrman makes me think he's Jewish. Like a Weinstein or Goldberg.
As far as voting is concerned, that has to be the least legitimate way to solidify the religion of the state. If the scripture doesnt agree with the hearsay of the people, it shouldnt be followed (ie Jesus being God). Whats more, if the scripture contradicts itself, such as circumcision and other Jewish traditions being outdone by Paul, it definitely shouldn't be followed. "Lets vote to eat pork" is basically what they did.
Peace
It really is funny how people buy into things like that. I don't understand it.
Awesome, tell me what you think. Yeah he might have converted.
Exactly! The most efficient way is to study the scripture and gain the best understanding. Not voting for extra arbitrary manmade laws.
Peace