Really?
-
God has sexual organs but he never procreates brickwall brickwall brickwall
-
No idea Tay, but this is fun.
Nadeem say
I don't think god has a freewill in the sense of having personal preferences comparable to the human "I like chocolate, but hate vanilla", and being affected by them. What drives freewill is the agent's liking and disliking. I cannot imagine the god having such desires, how then can the god be an agent of free will? God has untainted consciousness. Which is so much more.
Therefore, god doesn't pick and choose (=exercise freewill) randomly whom to do what with. There is not a separate standard for each of us, but a single standard that apply to us all. When it is said "God dislikes ... " it is said in the context of man's relation to god. The ricochet effect on an individual indulging in what god dislikes is defined by the standard already laid down, and it would appear to an observer that god had a grudge against the offender. There is no grudge though. Imagine, the all-powerful being bothered by what compares to him as a quark compares to a man. How ridiculous!
Even ourselves, do we care when a single of our 70 trillion trillion cells malfunction? Do we even notice? Yet, the malfunctioning cell is quickly removed as a result of the standard inherent in our body.
These are my thoughts. I hope they were relevant.
I agree. That standard is what I would call "the system."
Zenje say
God has given us a system, yes. The system is not provides guidance, God does.
Why are you desperately trying to remove God from the euqation? Think about it first.
God provides guidance through the system. I can't see any other way.
I'm not trying to remove god out of the equation, I'm trying to understand where god fits in that equation.Tay say
Regarding the first quote, I believe it's in regard to attributes such as bravery, strength, courage, confidence, and fearlessness. True believers do not fear men. They carry on with the conviction of having God's support. So an army of 10,000 would look like nothing to them. When you believe wholeheartedly, and you are sure that what you're doing is the right thing, then you have tapped into the divine resource - and nothing seems impossible.
That is also my interpretation of it.
But how do we refine and become in tune?
I guess that's what salat is for...
See, this is what I'm thinking We are told to believe in god, to trust in god, but the thing is that things don't change all by themselves, we have to do things our selves, bring about changes ourselves, no one does it for us.
We are told to believe in ourselves, to trust in ourselves. And that's what those verses say too, if we have self-belief, a large army will be like a small one.
So does self=god??? I think there's a connection here.OPF say
What do I mean by active? Human-like. Existing within time. Does it make sense to you that the creator of time changes his mind, an act that can only happen with time? I think this sort of illogic makes people turn away from God and become atheist/agnostic.
God is not human-like. But god can "change his mind" so to speak. People change, their actions change, and their future changes with it.
peace peace
-
And then the quran also says that god guides and misguides whomever he wishes.
Well, my question is, does god really control everything? Does god really send us special messages through real experiences or dreams? Does god really randomly pick people to guide and misguide? Really?
Peace Lobster,
Look at this post for clarifications http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13529.msg114493#msg114493
-
When you believe wholeheartedly, and you are sure that what you're doing is the right thing, then you have tapped into the divine resource - and nothing seems impossible.
So that's all it takes eh? All someone has to do to have "God" on their side is really really... really... believe with all their might... that they are "right" so that God is on their side and then they "tapped into the divine ressource"?!
Where do you come up with this stuff?I can understand the point of psychosis that would lead a person into thinking nothing is impossible... but then again... this type of megalomaniacal behaviour seems to be all the fashion in today's brand of pseudo spirituality.
-
I can understand the point of psychosis that would lead a person into thinking nothing is impossible... but then again... this type of megalomaniacal behaviour seems to be all the fashion in today's brand of pseudo spirituality.
That ONLY happens when people make unsupportive, inevident, alienated and circular claims on any specific notion, such as the Quran (a man-made ancient book) being the Word of God because it says so. If its not in the Quran, then one must not believe in any other "rubbish" because the Quran says so, without pondering upon other verses that speak quite the opposite. This is not only misleading but contradictory and displays the pick-n-choose types for their own selfish genes. And as soon as someone counters it, that someone either misunderstands the Arabic words because that is not what the current arabic dictionaries claim or the entire verse has suddenly become metaphorical.On the contrary, if its not in the Quran, then either "God" prohibited it or didn't prohibited it because "God" would have said so either way. What to make out of such alienated and silly claims is beyond any rationality. Some even make horrendous claims beyond recognition to whatever is being generally talked about must bring evidence from Quran and these same bereft individuals have all the liberty to converse outside of it and claim victory. rotfl brickwall
-
-
There is no changing of minds there if God is a "system", i.e. a set of rules/logic, or something with such traits.
-
peace OpenMind,
What I mean is that you might do something bad right now (which means god would punish you) but then later you might change and do something good (which means god would reward you).Of course, but I don't think it's like at any one time, you're either bad or good. I think, if you do something good you get +1 and something bad -1, so at the end of our lives however much we're positive/negative is the closer/further away we are from God and thus the more heaven/hell we receive.
Peace
-
Who says God is a "system?"
Doesn't have to be, God is the unseen. Confusing the creation with the creator is no good.
See 2164, 1022, 1432, 1679 - All of these indicate God is very close to nature.
-
Peace M,
So that's all it takes eh? All someone has to do to have "God" on their side is really really... really... believe with all their might... that they are "right" so that God is on their side and then they "tapped into the divine ressource"?!
Yeah. That's what belief is, afterall. And with belief comes conviction which often leads to courage, bravery, etc. Is it really that far-fetched?? Also, please offer your own interpretation of the ayah in question.
I can understand the point of psychosis that would lead a person into thinking nothing is impossible... but then again... this type of megalomaniacal behaviour seems to be all the fashion in today's brand of pseudo spirituality.
Cool.
peace
-
Yeah. That's what belief is, afterall. And with belief comes conviction which often leads to courage, bravery, etc. Is it really that far-fetched?? Also, please offer your own interpretation of the ayah in question.
Cool.Belief in what? I don't question what you are saying here in as an psychological effect. What I question is your formula to "tap" into "divine source" as you call it. I was enjoying your ideas of courage and 10,000 men etc. etc.. as far as the Ayah in question go.. But then you injected a formula that is in line with the character models of Bush n Bin Laden and then you complete your thought by saying megalomaniacal behaviour is "cool".
You sound more like you believe in man.. not God.
-
Of course, but I don't think it's like at any one time, you're either bad or good. I think, if you do something good you get +1 and something bad -1, so at the end of our lives however much we're positive/negative is the closer/further away we are from God and thus the more heaven/hell we receive.
Peace
peace
Well, I think it can be like that. We have good and bad things programed into us, when we act upon them is only a matter of time. I don't know how god works, though.
I don't think god is adding up our points, I think we experience heaven and hell in this world. Bad belief/actions have bad consequences for us and good things have good consequences.I'm really confused about what is meant by "god" in the quran.
The way I see it, It seems like god is a force/law that is neutral (neither good nor bad). Because anyone with belief in himself can make a large army look small. It doesn't matter what he's intentions are.
On the other hand we have those attributes that are strictly "good."Does "allah" have multiple meanings?
peace M,
You sound more like you believe in man.. not God.
they might actually be the same thing.
-
peace
Well, I think it can be like that. We have good and bad things programed into us, when we act upon them is only a matter of time. I don't know how god works, though.
I don't think god is adding up our points, I think we experience heaven and hell in this world. Bad belief/actions have bad consequences for us and good things have good consequences.I agree completely, but I don't think experiencing heaven/hell in this world and our "points" being added up, so to speak, are mutually exclusive. I agree with both
Peace
-
Salam,
You know Lobster, whether we agree or not does not matter much to me. To always agree isn't a highlight in life. But I just want to let you know that I truely appreciate your honesty. Thank you!
they might actually be the same thing.
This is what I'm trying to convey. Not that I believe they are the same, but the type of thought process that Tay presents points towards this type of belief system. And that system is dangerous.
peace...