A Quranist and Quran translation tampering QXP
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Peace,
It might be relevant if the text claimed itself to be a translation. Fortunately for the authors, it does not. Please refrain from baseless accusations, particularly in thread titles.
Peace,
TayDear Brother
How can you call it as "accusation".I provided the proof.
Accusation is when it is false.
What I have pointed out if this is wrong,I will apologize to the author and all of you.
But first prove that author's translation is correct. -
But first prove that author's translation is correct.
That is the point - it is not a translation. More correctly, you should say "prove that author's interpretation/explanation is correct". For this, you'd have to ask the author, who as far as I'm aware is not a member of the forum, so asking here is pointless. His email is on the ourbeacon.com site.
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That is the point - it is not a translation. More correctly, you should say "prove that author's interpretation/explanation is correct". For this, you'd have to ask the author, who as far as I'm aware is not a member of the forum, so asking here is pointless. His email is on the ourbeacon.com site.
Dear Waqas
I do not want to know why he has done.This is expected.I just to let the readers know what is there.
Don't you bash the traditionlist interpretation ?
If not aware read whole of Literature by G.A Perwez.
The Holy Quran says
613
Is this not so?? -
Salaam Aleikum,
AKUM vs IKUM - Wudhu
Posted By Dr. Shabbir - Florida
Date Tuesday, 28 November 2006, at 408 a.m.Email
56 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! When you congregate for Salat, wash your faces and your forearms, hands to the elbows. Lightly rub your heads and your feet to the ankles. ---.
"56. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha qumtum ila alssalati faighsiloo wujoohakum waaydiyakum ila almarafiqi waimsahoo biruoosikum waarjulakum ila alkaAAbayni
****faighsiloo wujoohakum = wash your faces,(notice the end of the word ..akum)
****waimsahoo biruoosikum = wipe your head,(notice the end of the word ..ikum)
****waarjulakum = and your feet ,(notice the end of the word ..akum)
Because the word waarjulakum is written with .....lakum, it follows the washing of the face.....lakum, grammatically.
For the feet to follow the wiping of the head it should have been writttten as waarjulikum , that is .....likum and NOT ....lakum as it is in the verse."
I have discussed this with several arabic speaking persons, and most confirm the verse says 'rub your head and feet'. But still i would like to understand the above better.
- A questioner
Answer
IKUM and AKUM are not grammatically important here.
KUM is sufficient (YOUR in plural). The flow of the verse here means 'wipe your feet'. Shias are right here but for the wrong reason.
The Sunnis write AKUM.
The Shias write IKUM from the so-called non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS (Abdullah bin Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib.)
Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas was the son of the exalted prophet's paternal uncle, Hazrat Abbas). How could the prophet's cousin have a different copy of the Qur'an.
Interestingly, through the same non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS, the Shias bring support for MUT'AH (temporary marriage.) They maintain that that QIR'AT said, "Marry women ILA AJALIM-MUSAMMA" (Marry women for an appointed or pre-determined time).
Allah says in 2231 - DO NOT MAKE ALLAH'S VERSES A LAUGHING STOCK.
You know QIR'AT means a way of reciting and not writing.
I hope, I am clear.
-SA
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Peace Leoxyz,
How can you call it as "accusation".I provided the proof.
The accusation that the translation is "tampering" the quran is baseless because the text you are quoting from is not a translation. The text, called QXP, is self-described as "more of an understanding from within the Qur?an itself" as Arnold quoted for you in the preface. Thus, any and all criticism regarding it's worthiness as a translation is completely irrelevant.
The authors clearly went to great lengths to explain their goals and probably to avoid this very type of misunderstanding. I would suggest reading the preface again to better grasp this.
Peace,
Tay -
Would it be better called exegesis/tafseer?
By the way, there is a hadeeth about people nitpicking every single fault baselessly while ignoring themselves. I'll find it, God willing.
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Peace Leoxyz,
The accusation that the translation is "tampering" the quran is baseless because the text you are quoting from is not a translation. The text, called QXP, is self-described as "more of an understanding from within the Qur?an itself" as Arnold quoted for you in the preface. Thus, any and all criticism regarding it's worthiness as a translation is completely irrelevant.
The authors clearly went to great lengths to explain their goals and probably to avoid this very type of misunderstanding. I would suggest reading the preface again to better grasp this.
Peace,
TayWhich interpretation/tafseer of this aya signifies "rub the feet".??
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I hope you have booked your appointment. May I suggest that going through the NHS can get you a slight discount on the price of the frame.
Answer
IKUM and AKUM are not grammatically important here.
KUM is sufficient (YOUR in plural). The flow of the verse here means 'wipe your feet'. Shias are right here but for the wrong reason.
The Sunnis write AKUM.
The Shias write IKUM from the so-called non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS (Abdullah bin Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib.)
Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas was the son of the exalted prophet's paternal uncle, Hazrat Abbas). How could the prophet's cousin have a different copy of the Qur'an.
Interestingly, through the same non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS, the Shias bring support for MUT'AH (temporary marriage.) They maintain that that QIR'AT said, "Marry women ILA AJALIM-MUSAMMA" (Marry women for an appointed or pre-determined time).
Allah says in 2231 - DO NOT MAKE ALLAH'S VERSES A LAUGHING STOCK.
You know QIR'AT means a way of reciting and not writing.
I hope, I am clear.
-SA
I also wonder what happened to Little Old Lady, did "her" proxy break down?
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I hope you have booked your appointment. May I suggest that going through the NHS can get you a slight discount on the price of the frame.
I also wonder what happened to Little Old Lady, did "her" proxy break down?
Dear '
Do not take the shelter of Weak and Fabricated "Hadiths" (what a pity taking shelter of Fabricated Hadiths and www.blablabla.)
My authority is QuranTranslate it and prove it .
The second source of this Quranic aya;
http//www.islamicity.com/MOSQUE/ARABICSCRIPT/AYAT/5/5_6.htmIn other words you are trying to tell me that Maazullah this Aya is not correct .
2156 -
In other words you are trying to tell me that Maazullah this Aya is not correct .
2156Salaam Leoxyz
It's not about a verse being correct or incorrect. No one is saying it's incorrect. It's about vocalization of the word "arjulakum or arjulikum". If one adopts the fisrt one, and on mere grammatical grounds, it will follow wash your faces wujuuhakum", so it will mean wash your feet.
On the other hand, if one adopts wa arjulikum", it will follow rub your heads ru'uusikum" and it will mean rub your feet.
or
And for your information, no one here messes with qur'aan, quite the opposite. If some people divide their efforts between the quraan and some twenty-hundreds other books, we concentrate ALL our efforts on the quraan. Keep an open mind and try to read more than talk.
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Salaam Leoxyz
It's not about a verse being correct or incorrect. No one is saying it's incorrect. It's about vocalization of the word "arjulakum or arjulikum". If one adopts the fisrt one, and on mere grammatical grounds, it will follow wash your faces wujuuhakum", so it will mean wash your feet.
On the other hand, if one adopts wa arjulikum", it will follow rub your heads ru'uusikum" and it will mean rub your feet.
or
And for your information, no one here messes with qur'aan, quite the opposite. If some people divide their efforts between the quraan and some twenty-hundreds other books, we concentrate ALL our efforts on the quraan. Keep an open mind and try to read more than talk.
Dear Samia
Thanks for reply
Arabic is read and translated according to voweling (ihraab).
according to illiterate people like me.Please correct if I am wrong.
you have quoted two ayaas with two different vowelling.Only one is correct.Naturally both cannot be correct at the same time.Please give the correct Aya.Which one is correct??
So according to you (the criteria of reading) if someone reads/writes the word ( ) as "aalimulghab or aalamulghab" per your arabic and Quranists's lingual somersault ,it does not make any difference.It is ok to pronounce and write both ways. -
Salaam Aleikum,
AKUM vs IKUM - Wudhu
Posted By Dr. Shabbir - Florida
Date Tuesday, 28 November 2006, at 408 a.m.Email
56 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! When you congregate for Salat, wash your faces and your forearms, hands to the elbows. Lightly rub your heads and your feet to the ankles. ---.
"56. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha qumtum ila alssalati faighsiloo wujoohakum waaydiyakum ila almarafiqi waimsahoo biruoosikum waarjulakum ila alkaAAbayni
****faighsiloo wujoohakum = wash your faces,(notice the end of the word ..akum)
****waimsahoo biruoosikum = wipe your head,(notice the end of the word ..ikum)
****waarjulakum = and your feet ,(notice the end of the word ..akum)
Because the word waarjulakum is written with .....lakum, it follows the washing of the face.....lakum, grammatically.
For the feet to follow the wiping of the head it should have been writttten as waarjulikum , that is .....likum and NOT ....lakum as it is in the verse."
I have discussed this with several arabic speaking persons, and most confirm the verse says 'rub your head and feet'. But still i would like to understand the above better.
- A questioner
Answer
IKUM and AKUM are not grammatically important here.
KUM is sufficient (YOUR in plural). The flow of the verse here means 'wipe your feet'. Shias are right here but for the wrong reason.
The Sunnis write AKUM.
The Shias write IKUM from the so-called non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS (Abdullah bin Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib.)
Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas was the son of the exalted prophet's paternal uncle, Hazrat Abbas). How could the prophet's cousin have a different copy of the Qur'an.
Interestingly, through the same non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS, the Shias bring support for MUT'AH (temporary marriage.) They maintain that that QIR'AT said, "Marry women ILA AJALIM-MUSAMMA" (Marry women for an appointed or pre-determined time).
Allah says in 2231 - DO NOT MAKE ALLAH'S VERSES A LAUGHING STOCK.
You know QIR'AT means a way of reciting and not writing.
I hope, I am clear.
-SA
2156
Uptill now I was in doubt that it might have happened by mistake.Now I am sure it was intentional.
Thanks a lot for this post.I am going to save it for future reference.
This shows such a big blunder because of lack knowledge of Arabic grammar I cannot express .
Now see the actual AyaThere are two verbs under discussion
= (ghasala) without any preposition (harf-e- jarr)
= (masaha) with preposition
= is connected with the verbs by a conjunction ( Harf-e-ataf) (waw)
Now the simple question is is object which verb (ghasala) or (masaha).
If it had been object of Masaha then it would have taken the effect of Preposition because " aatif" "maatoof" (- ) are always similar in Ihrab and and it would have become "arjulikum".Since it has not taken the effect of the preposition (arjulakum), it means it is object of "ghasala" and not the object of Masaha.
This is so fundamental factor of grammar so that if some person has read just a few chapters of arabic grammar ,he knows these thing.
Example of "ataf on preposition"
2285Reference Of Arabic Grammar'
.
( و ..
(ٍ .
(و (و .
(و (ٍ .
Ref Sharah Ajroomiyya By Saleh Bin Muhammad bin HasanIf the standard of "scholars" is this what would happen to the followers.
May Allah Bless our Quran(446) Among those who have become Jews ,there are some who alter the words from their context, *
Is the Holy Quran based on Hearsay Grammar and Translation ????????
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Dear brother/sisters.
QXP 2nd Edition 2005
Author Shabbir Ahmed ,M.D (Florida)
Actual AyaFurther Reference
http//www.islamicity.com/MOSQUE/ARABICSCRIPT/AYAT/5/5_6.htm
Traslated by Shabbir Ahmed
56 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! When you congregate for Salat, wash you faces and your forearms ,hands to the elbows. Lightly rub you heads and your feet to the anklesI challenge to Prove this translation from the Quranic Text .
Another Explicit example of Tanslation Tamperinghail
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Dear Samia
Only one is correct.Naturally both cannot be correct at the same time.Please give the correct Aya.Which one is correct??
Sorry, I am not in a position to say which is correct, and I do not see why both cannot be correct. When it is cold, and I have no access to warm water, I would rub my feet; or if I am somewhere where the sink is too high for me, I can't just splash water on the floor, so I rub. Otherwise I wash them (washing is the default in my case). Perhaps God left it like that as a way of making things easy for us.
So according to you (the criteria of reading) if someone reads/writes the word ( ) as "aalimulghab or aalamulghab" per your arabic and Quranists's lingual somersault ,it does not make any difference.It is ok to pronounce and write both ways.
From the context, it is very clear where it is "3aalamulghaib" and where it is "3aalimul ghaib"., the first being (the world of the unseen) and the latter is (the Knower of the unseen). This is not a question of "tashkeel, vocalization"/grammar. these are two different words.
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Sorry, I am not in a position to say which is correct, and I do not see why both cannot be correct. When it is cold, and I have no access to warm water, I would rub my feet; or if I am somewhere where the sink is too high for me, I can't just splash water on the floor, so I rub. Otherwise I wash them (washing is the default in my case). Perhaps God left it like that as a way of making things easy for us.
From the context, it is very clear where it is "3aalamulghaib" and where it is "3aalimul ghaib"., the first being (the world of the unseen) and the latter is (the Knower of the unseen). This is not a question of "tashkeel, vocalization"/grammar. these are two different words.
It means Quran has two versions as far as this aya is concerned
One = with "arjulalkum
one = with "arjulikum
What is your opinion about this aya ?
159
uptill now I had the opinion that some groups are playing only with the meaning now I realize that Quran words are also under threat.
Now "Tahreef bil Lafz" is also taking place. -
It means Quran has two versions as far as this aya is concerned
One = with "arjulalkum
one = with "arjulikum
What is your opinion about this aya ?
159
uptill now I had the opinion that some groups are playing only with the meaning now I realize that Quran words are also under threat.
Now "Tahreef bil Lafz" is also taking place.Only now you realized that there are different ways in reading some words? These are very old opinions. It was never considered manipulation. If you think that quraanists invented these two ways of reading this verse or any other verse, or that these are innovations of modern times, then you are really pathetic!
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Only now you realized that there are different ways in reading some words? These are very old opinions. It was never considered manipulation. If you think that quraanists invented these two ways of reading this verse or any other verse, or that these are innovations of modern times, then you are really pathetic!
I will save Agent Smith the time and say
Please provide reference. More questions to follow.
