A Problem of Translation of Quranic Aya for Quranists
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Dear
What impression I take that you think that One may ghusal "elbows" or not" that does not make difference.It means Quran is not telling definitely whether to wash the elbows or not ?
Again am I right to understand you ? (Sorry for asking like this because of I lack knowledge and I feel difficulty in comprehending certain conceiled meanings)368 We have put yokes round their necks right up to their chins, so that their heads are forced up (and they cannot see)
Common sense 101 explained in detail
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Take the metaphorical yoke/collar off your neck so you can see
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Place collar around ?the joint? known as elbow ? view diagram
http//www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/elbow/elbow_anatomy/elbow_anatomy_intro01.jpg
Imagine the white cartilage part in picture (clearly visible on left) as the collar
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Wash up to collar ?the joint? or elbow ? you may go beyond if you like
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When done, take off imaginary collar and place back around neck up to chin
Further instructions will be provided upon written request.
Good luck!
Sincerely,
Bajram (aka Holiday) Hoxha or Eid Imam in Arabic
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368 We have put yokes round their necks right up to their chins, so that their heads are forced up (and they cannot see)
Common sense 101 explained in detail
-
Take the metaphorical yoke/collar off your neck so you can see
-
Place collar around ?the joint? known as elbow ? view diagram
http//www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/elbow/elbow_anatomy/elbow_anatomy_intro01.jpg
Imagine the white cartilage part in picture (clearly visible on left) as the collar
-
Wash up to collar ?the joint? or elbow ? you may go beyond if you like
-
When done, take off imaginary collar and place back around neck up to chin
Further instructions will be provided upon written request.
Good luck!
Sincerely,
Bajram (aka Holiday) Hoxha or Eid Imam in Arabic
Dear
So you want to explain the Qurain on "may/may not" pattern.
Whichever word you like you can put in "metaphoric /allegorical " meaning.
2156
"ghusal" of the elbows is either necessary or not necessary.There is nothing in between."May/may not " is not applicable to Quran. -
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Leoxyz, can you clarify whether you are joking or not, please.
Thanks.
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What difference does it make if you wash it up to the elbow or up and including the elbow? If it was that important, it would have been put in a an explicit way and would have also been included in "tayam-mum".
"ilaa" could mean both, and is used in the quraan in both meanings.
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What difference does it make if you wash it up to the elbow or up and including the elbow? If it was that important, it would have been put in a an explicit way and would have also been included in "tayam-mum".
"ilaa" could mean both, and is used in the quraan in both meanings.
What does it make difference to Allah if someone believes in Allah or not?
Question is that of meaning?
I do not know what is the opinion of the "Zamakhshari of the day"? -
What does it make difference to Allah if someone believes in Allah or not?
Exactly. So, what difference does it make for God or for us as to where to wash our arms?
Question is that of meaning?
Then question is that of what?
I do not know what is the opinion of the "Zamakhshari of the day"?
confused
Is his opinion important to you? What about your opinion? You don't seem to have any...but lots of questions...repeated and/or meaningless. giveup -
Peace,
"ghusal" of the elbows is either necessary or not necessary.There is nothing in between."May/may not " is not applicable to Quran.
Where did I write May/may not?
el?bow (l'b'
n.
1.
a. The joint or bend of the arm between the forearm and the upper arm.Therefore, wash up to ?the joint? or bend and don?t worry if short/over or if you miss a spot; they didn?t have sinks with running water 1400 years ago and people were lucky to bathe once a week and remember -- it's intent which counts.
http//www.eslkidstuff.com/images/elbow.gif
What does it make difference to Allah if someone believes in Allah or not?
Your posts are getting more and more ridiculous -- you are equating this with belief in God?
How does one eat watermelon then?
When exactly is dawn and sunset in Mecca?
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/mecca.htmlWhat about in Antarctica?
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/syowa--permanent-station-of-japan.htmlAgain -- it's INTENT which counts!
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Peace,
Where did I write May/may not?
http//www.eslkidstuff.com/images/elbow.gif
Your posts are getting more and more ridiculous -- you are equating this with belief in God?
How does one eat watermelon then?
When exactly is dawn and sunset in Mecca?
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/mecca.htmlWhat about in Antarctica?
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/syowa--permanent-station-of-japan.htmlAgain -- it's INTENT which counts!
Whole Quran is equally Allah's order.Whether is one Aya or whole Quran ,its principles are the same.
If you can make the order of one aya "may/may not 'pattern then it does not make difference whether you apply to whole quran or not . -
I would like to remind everyone that in English, the word "until" signifies "optionally" where there is no distinct line, unless additional boundary conditions are imposed.
Of course, we could be sane and say "to the point of the elbow", but come on, I'd rather look back to the 7th century and find out how to eat watermelon.
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Whole Quran is equally Allah's order.Whether is one Aya or whole Quran ,its principles are the same.
If you can make the order of one aya "may/may not 'pattern then it does not make difference whether you apply to whole quran or not .ARE YOU OK -- WHERE DID I SAY MAY/MAY NOT? Define "the elbow" exactly?
Mode operandi as usual -- care to answer these as well and define "the dawn" and "the sunset" exactly...
When exactly is dawn and sunset in Mecca?
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/mecca.htmlWhat about in Antarctica?
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/syowa--permanent-station-of-japan.htmlOf course, we could be sane and say "to the point of the elbow", but come on, I'd rather look back to the 7th century and find out how to eat watermelon.
Yeah OPF the best ?scholars? Ibn Hambal couldn?t figure out sunna of eating watermelon? ;D
http//www.answering-islam.de/Main/Books/Wollaston/Accounts/chapt6.htm
"So scrupulous was this theologian in his veneration for the Prophet of Arabia, that he would not eat watermelons because, although aware that the Master whom he adored, indulged in them, it was uncertain whether the founder of Islam peeled off the rind, or whether he broke, bit, or cut them!"
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Damn. I guess I will not touch watermelon.
After all, the holy prophet's sunna is lost on this.
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Peace Nun,
"So scrupulous was this theologian in his veneration for the Prophet of Arabia, that he would not eat watermelons because, although aware that the Master whom he adored, indulged in them, it was uncertain whether the founder of Islam peeled off the rind, or whether he broke, bit, or cut them!"
Comical, yet sad. It is, imo, recompense from God when folks are so engulfed in following meaningless details that they lose the ability to think clearly. Thanks for this example.
peace
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Peace Nun,
Comical, yet sad. It is, imo, recompense from God when folks are so engulfed in following meaningless details that they lose the ability to think clearly. Thanks for this example.
peace
When the leader has only this much knowledge and thinks that
"m3toof /m3toof ali " can have different "i3raab" what to think of followers. -
OK then. I'll keep this reply in mind when you ask someone else for clarification.
Peace,
TayBrother ! Please do not get angry.I am sorry I might not have understood your question.
Which clarification you were asking?
About which item ? Let me know my younger brother welcome
As far as replies to me are concerned ,I reserve my comments. -
Peace Leo,
No problem, and no anger.
Here's what you stated
Could you please clarify?Thanks,
TayPeace
The Aya under discussion wasThe word used here is "arjulakum" not "arjulikum"
1If it is "arjulakum " then it is object of the verb "Ghasala"(washing)
2If it is "arjulikum" then it is object of the verb "Masaha"(rubbing)
The reason for the second is ,"Masah" is not being used alone ,rather it has a preposition in fromt of it i.e "bi" (Bi raoosikum).
In arabic when prepositions are used before any noun then its case is changed and last alphabet is given "kasara" and in Arabic grammar terminology it become "majroor"
-RaooSIkum has "kasara " under "seen" .So head is object of "masaha"
-Next is "waw" which is a connecting word and in arabic known as "harf-e-ataf"
-Next is our disputed word "Arjulakum"
If we consider that it is connected to "Bi-raoosikum" then it should be "arjulikum" which is not so .
Then it is definitely connected to "wajoohakum + Aidiyakum" and it is object of the verb "ghasala"
Now confusing point here ,can a noun be placed so far ahead of a verb while other words intervening , and be connected to such remote verb.
The answer is yes.
Actually Arabic is not like English in which sentence pattern is
SVO (subject + verb+ object)
In arabic ,it may take any sequece ,though some sequences are very common.
E.gYou will read
1haraba alwaldu alkalba
2alwaldu dharaba alkalba
3alkalaba dharabahu alwaladuNow "u" at the end of "waladu" is showing it is subject and "a" at the end of "alkalba" is whowing that it is object.No matter what is their location ,these will translated as
"The boy beat the dog"
I gave you this example to emphasise that the location does not matter much in arabic rather these are detected by their "i3raab"
Very /Very /very fundamental rule of the Arabic is ,if two nouns are connected by connectors (haroof-e-aatifa) ,then they must be have same "I3raab"
Now if we translate this aya as
"Rub your feet " then it means you are assuming that the "Raas and Rijl" are connected syntactically .If so then they should have same "i3raab" which is not there.
It means that in spite of the fact these are physically connected but syntactically not.
I hope I have tried to explain myself.
I do not know whether it was your question or some thing els.
Both of these senteces -
Peace Leo,
Thank you for the detailed explanation. You've answered part of my query. The rest would be
Who is this leader that, "has only this much knowledge and thinks that "m3toof /m3toof ali " can have different "i3raab"?
And who are his followers?
Thanks,
Tay