Are the Quran aloners hurting the refomist cause?
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I kindly suggest everyone reread sura 77 (especially the last verse, 7750). Very interesting. I'd like to hear leo's or hussein's thoughts on this.
Dear very true
This is what I have been crying that whatever Quran says ."Believe and follow" e.g Quran says332
(332) Say 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.' If they turn away from this then know that Allah does not love those who refuse to obey Him and His Messenger.3132
(3132) And obey Allah and the Messenger, that you may be shown mercy.459
(459) Believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those from among you who are invested with authority; and then if you were to dispute among yourselves about anything refer it to Allah and the Messenger *89 if you indeed believe in Allah and the Last Day; that is better and more commendable in the end
.2454
(2454) Say, "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away, you should note it well that the Messenger is responsible for the duty entrusted to him and you are responsible for the duty entrusted to you. If you obey him, you will be rightly guided, for the responsibility of the Messenger is only to convey the Message clearly to you.469
(469) And he who obeys Allah and the Messenger -they shall be with those whom Allah has favoured -the Prophets, those steadfast in truthfulness *99, the martyrs, and the righteous." How excellent will they be for companions!464
(464) (And tell them that) We never sent a Messenger but that he should be obeyed by the leave of Allah. *94 If whenever they wronged themselves they had come to you praying to Allah for forgiveness, and had the Messenger prayed for their forgiveness, they would indeed have found Allah All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate480
(480) He who obeys the Messenger thereby obeys Allah; as for he who turns away, We have not sent you as a keeper over them!414
(414) And he who disobeys Allah and His Messenger and transgresses the bounds set by Him - him shall Allah cause to enter the Fire. There he will abide. A humiliating chastisement awaits him.3336
(3336) It *65 does not behove a believing man and a believing woman that when Allah and His Messenger have given their decision in a matter, they should exercise an option in that matter of theirs; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Prophet, has indeed strayed into manifest error7223
(7223) My mission is only to convey what I receive from Him and His messages. *22 Now whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger for him awaits the fire of Hell such people shall dwell in it for ever.813
(813) This is because they defied Allah and His Messenger. Whoever defies Allah and His Messenger must know that Allah is severe in punishment.963
(963) Do they not know that whoso opposes Allah and His Messenger shall have the Fire of Hell for him wherein he shall abide for ever? This is a great ignominy.2456
(2456) Therefore, establish Salat, pay the Zakat dues and obey the Messenger; it is expected that you will be shown mercy4115
(4115) As for him who sets himself against the Messenger and follows a path other than that of the believers even after true guidance had become clear to him, We will let him go to the way he has turned to, *143 and We will cast him into Hell - an evil destination.533
(533) He does not speak of his own desire;534
(534) it is but a Revelation which is sent down to him331
(331) (O Messenger!) Tell people 'If you indeed love Allah, follow me, and Allah will love you and will forgive you your sins. Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate.'332
(332) Say 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.' If they turn away from this then know that Allah does not love those who refuse to obey Him and His Messenger.3164
(3164) Surely Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He raised from among them a Messenger to recite to them His signs, and to purify them, and to teach them the Book and Wisdom. For before that they were in manifest error. -
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Wouldn't the conclusion be that the messenger isn't always referring to Muhammad, hence "messenger"
Or am I wrong?
Before going to other questionsPlease clear what I understood.
I repeat the question
You saidNo just the impossible verses cannot be done.
I asked you
Now you are on the right path;
Probably you want to say that the verse
459
is possible to carry out nowadays?
Am I correct to understand you ?Please answer this question then we will move to other questions so that material is settled in an organized manner.
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Salaam Navid,
Thank you for presenting those verses. But could you tell me your thoughts on 7750, especially in the context of the rest of sura 77?
7750
Correct, you are supposed to have Iman= safety and trust in the Qur'an. That same Qur'an tells you to have Iman= safety and trust in the messenger and to obey him in so many occasions. If you have true Iman in the Qur'an then you follow what it says and not manipulate it as you are trying to imply.
Take care and have a great day.
Hussein
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Salaam Navid,
Correct, you are supposed to have Iman= safety and trust in the Qur'an. That same Qur'an tells you to have Iman= safety and trust in the messenger and to obey him in so many occasions. If you have true Iman in the Qur'an then you follow what it says and not manipulate it as you are trying to imply.Take care and have a great day.
Hussein
You are correct, if you have iman in the Quran you will not need to resort to hearing hearsay and conjecture about hearsay.
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Salaam Navid,
Correct, you are supposed to have Iman= safety and trust in the Qur'an. That same Qur'an tells you to have Iman= safety and trust in the messenger and to obey him in so many occasions. If you have true Iman in the Qur'an then you follow what it says and not manipulate it as you are trying to imply.Take care and have a great day.
Hussein
So 7750 (among other countless verses) does not apply? The quran, using CLEAR verses tells you to not follow any other hadith aside the quran, to follow God only and the quran only which is complete and clearly explained, that the quran cites EVERY example, etc. These verses are indisputable. There is only ONE way to interpret them. Yet you deny these verses through upholding the hadith.
Now, let's compare what I said above to the reason you uphold the hadith, which is based on ONE quote that is manipulated to get one meaning. "Obey the messenger" DOES NOT have ONE meaning (to follow everything prophet muhammad does through the narration of long chains, gathered after the prophet's death). "Obey the messenger" can be intepreted in different ways. However, you stick to one interpretation and use that to uphold the hadith.
Do you see the difference? Please approach this with an open mind. How could you not see this?
Please, explain your thoughts on verses such as 7750. What does it mean by "Which hadith after this will they believe?"
Peace
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So 7750 (among other countless verses) does not apply? The quran, using CLEAR verses tells you to not follow any other hadith aside the quran, to follow God only and the quran only which is complete and clearly explained, that the quran cites EVERY example, etc. These verses are indisputable. There is only ONE way to interpret them. Yet you deny these verses through upholding the hadith.
Wrong understanding. It suggests that any other hadeeth that is contradictory to the Qur'an is rejected and not just any other hadeeth. If you truly mean what you say then you should not write anything because that is a "hadeeth that God asked you reject" according to your faulty understanding. However, neither you nor OPF will stop giving "hadeeth" but will always believe wrongly that only the "hadeeth of the prohet is rejected here". That is what is called hypocrisy.
Take care
Hussein
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Wrong understanding. It suggests that any other hadeeth that is contradictory to the Qur'an is rejected and not just any other hadeeth. If you truly mean what you say then you should not write anything because that is a "hadeeth that God asked you reject" according to your faulty understanding. However, neither you nor OPF will stop giving "hadeeth" but will always believe wrongly that only the "hadeeth of the prohet is rejected here". That is what is called hypocrisy.
Take care
Hussein
Where does it suggest that it is hadith contradictory the quran? The quran repeatedly (not only 7750) implies that you should not follow any other hadith other than the quran, as divine guidance. How can you reject this?
That is one thing you are not understanding, you are the one manipulating, brother. You say that "hadith" in the quran refers to everything other than your hadith (irony it is the same word). I (and I'm asssuming OPF), on the other hand, follow logic and the quran, and take it to refer to ANY OTHER hadith aside from the quran. This is undeniable.
Peace
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Your "logic" or the "lack of it" is expressed in your "hadeeth". According to you I need to reject the hadeeth that contains your logic per 7750.
As far where I got my understanding. From the Aya and the ones before it and after it. The Qur'an was challenging the ones who reject it because they felt safe in an alternative that contradicts it. The Qur'an does not reject any hadeeth that is consistent with it or that supports it, including the hadeeth that is attributed to the prophet.
Hussein
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Your "logic" or the "lack of it" is expressed in your "hadeeth". According to you I need to reject the hadeeth that contains your logic per 7750.
What?
As far where I got my understanding. From the Aya and the ones before it and after it. The Qur'an was challenging the ones who reject it because they felt safe in an alternative that contradicts it. The Qur'an does not reject any hadeeth that is consistent with it or that supports it, including the hadeeth that is attributed to the prophet.
Hussein
The fact of the matter is that you are ADDING divine laws on to the deen by following "hadith other than the quran. Not only do you take divine guidance/laws from humans, some ahadith DO in fact contradict the quran. Regardless, again, you are taking divine laws from other hadith than the quran. This is what the quran warns against, and you do not see it.