Hell
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Hi Chacha,
I am a guy, but you have probably met me before on another forum.
Your writing style also seems familiar.
can't you see koran is too miraculous to be created by a person? how would you explain the miracles? are you blind deaf or dumb? honestly can you explain the miracles? if this is established that koran is divine then stop asking questions in order to judge koran and start pondering over it with open heart - start looking for answers yourself.
But that's the whole point Chacha.
I don't believe the Qur'an is mircaulous.
Tell me how is one to judge whether or not to believe in the Qur'an - or any other holy book - if not by using ones reason?
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You say that your belief in god or denial will affect your deeds.
But you say that not believing in God does not make you do bad deeds.
I find this confusing.
Do you mean your beliefs affect you but you can still disbelieve in God, do good deeds and go to heaven?
Or not?
just to give you my views on this...
the quran says "god is the ultimate truth."
so belief in truth will lead you to do good deeds.
if you believe in crap, then you'll do a lot of crap too.
For example suicide bombers believe that they will go to heaven and get virgins if they kill themselves to kill others. That is a false belief, and it makes them kill themselves.and what we have to remember is that our belief has to be absolute, we can't have any doubts. We have to truly believe in the truth, have it ingrained in our minds so that we act upon it instintively. Most of our actions are instant reactions to something where we don't have time to think, so we have to cultivate the truth and good behaviour in ourselves so that we do good like we walk (without having to think about it), and the key is repitition. (Kyle just posted a topic on this)
I don't believe the quran's miraculous either, but it's certainly worth a read.
or maybe it has gotten so old and the message has gotten so muddled that we're just better off staying away?peace
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I don't believe the quran's miraculous either, but it's certainly worth a read. or maybe it has gotten so old and the message has gotten so muddled that we're just better off staying away?
I agree with the above quote.
Even though, as a Spurs fan, I am loath to agree with anything an Arsenal fan says lol p
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I agree with the above quote.
Even though, as a Spurs fan, I am loath to agree with anything an Arsenal fan says lol p
625 - Of them there are some who (pretend to) listen to thee; but We have thrown veils on their hearts, So they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they saw every one of the signs, not they will believe in them; in so much that when they come to thee, they (but) dispute with thee; the Unbelievers say "These are nothing but tales of the ancients."
You are warned against that course of action.
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You say that your belief in god or denial will affect your deeds.
But you say that not believing in God does not make you do bad deeds.
I find this confusing.
You are confusing you self,. You got it right the first time?.? You say that your belief in god or denial will affect your deeds.?
Do you mean your beliefs affect you but you can still disbelieve in God, do good deeds and go to heaven?
Or not?
Your belief affects your deeds. I?m saying that people who disbelieve in GOD existence can still can do good. BUT, that disbelief in GOD existence comes with consequences that may cause them their place in GOD?s paradise.
Think about this and let me know what you think. Here are two examples.
(1) If you believe that you don?t have a mother or believe that your mother never exist (even though she does), how will you treat your mother? Isn?t your belief about your mother affecting your deeds and action (especially towards your mother)?
(2) If you are working at a job, but believe that your boss is evil and not kind to anyone. How would you treat your job and your boss? Wouldn?t your belief affect your deeds and action towards the job?
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peace all freeminders - chacha launched personal attacks on cosmicdancer and thenabi and both responded like a gentleman instead of matching the style - giving respect to chacha. chacha is happy. in chacha's language they say mugambo kush howa. you people are nice to travellers but so unforgiving to each other.
cosmicdancer. read this. http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/koran.htm
chances are you have already read this or similar one. for 60 seconds just empty your mind from all issues you have with koran including hell and wife beating. just focus on a single thought. can a human create this logical balance 14 centuries back. yes/no. it will boil down to yes/no. other possible answer could be these articles are presenting falls information - muslims are deluding the world. lets assume for a minute the article is presenting all authentic data. what would be your answer? chacha knows what your answer will be. a human being just can't create such a balance in an hand written kitaab eons ago. this shall establish the divinity. otherwise how would you explain this balance?once the divity is establish then accept the whole koran. don't study it with the intentions of judging it but with the intentions of understanding it. things that dont make sense put them in 'dont know' category and ask your creator to increase your knowledge. chacha has noticed that koran has a dual personality. it will confuse you if you read it to judge. it will attract you if you read it to understand.
all you people have gathered on this internet platform to discuss koran and creator. there are millions busy in their day to day life with zero interest in searching the truth. chacha's hats off to freeminders and to the souls managing this platform. i know most of your avatars are silly and annoying. but that is ok. your cause is noble.
chacha
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You are confusing you self,. You got it right the first time. You say that your belief in god or denial will affect your deeds.
But that still leaves the question of HOW it affects your deeds. Does it affect one's deeds in a bad way or a good way or in a completely nuetral way that is neither good or bad?
It seems to me - as I originally thought that you believe that " if you disbelieve in God you will end up doing bad deeds" - but for some reason you don't seem to be able to spit it out.
I don't understand why?
Im saying that people who disbelieve in GOD existence can still can do good. BUT, that disbelief in GOD existence comes with consequences that may cause them their place in GODs paradise.
Now I don't get this statement?
So an unbeliever can do good - but God might put him in Hell anyway?
Why?
And by saying "might" you are implying he might go to paradise also?
So why would an unbeliever who is good go to Hell - and why would an unbeliever who does good go to Hell - what would make that crucail difference between eternal torture and eternal joy?
Think about this and let me know what you think. Here are two examples.
(1) If you believe that you dont have a mother or believe that your mother never exist (even though she does), how will you treat your mother? Isnt your belief about your mother affecting your deeds and action (especially towards your mother)?
How will I treat a woman who I don't think is my mother? What a wierd scenario - it makes no sense and I don't see the analogy with God. But for arguments sake I will give a straight answer.
I would think she is a little crazy for saying she is my mum, but I would treat her politely and if she insists on making my bed and cooking my dinner, I think I will be very pleasant to her indeed. I certainly wouldn't do anything that would necessitate my being tortured for all eternity.
(2) If you are working at a job, but believe that your boss is evil and not kind to anyone. How would you treat your job and your boss? Wouldnt your belief affect your deeds and action towards the job?
Again - there is no analogy with God - the descriptions of a God that burns unbelievers does not make me think God is evil - it makes me think the Qur'an is false.
But I will answer your question anyway.
Yes it would affect my behaviour. I would quit the job. I certainly wouldn't do anything that should require me being punished by having my skin burnt off and scalding water poured into my skull.
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lol
your spurs can't win anything.We had a bad start this season - but I'm used to it, supporting spurs is good for the soul lol
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for some reason everyone's writing off Arsenal this season...we'll show them
supporting spurs might be good for the soul, but it can't be good for the heart.hehe... no, but it could be worse. I could be an Arsenal supporter lol.
Actually my brother supports Arsenal. I grew up in Finchley in the 70s and there were only two teams to support in that part of North London - Spurs or Arsenal - as you can see, I got first choice
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that is strange, zenje...but i think heavens is more in reference to the sky/god, not paradise.
Cosmicdancer, were the spurs better than arsenal in the 70s?
the thing is, i've never been to england, and I'm not sure if I would support Arsenal without Wenger. I like the club, but what I really love about Arsenal is the players and their style of football and the brillance of their manager.
you better hope Jol doesn't get the sack... -
that is strange, zenje...but i think heavens is more in reference to the sky/god, not paradise.
Cosmicdancer, were the spurs better than arsenal in the 70s?
the thing is, i've never been to england, and I'm not sure if I would support Arsenal without Wenger. I like the club, but what I really love about Arsenal is the players and their style of football and the brillance of their manager.
you better hope Jol doesn't get the sack...Arsenal are a good team under Wenger. They were boring under Graham.
I started supporting Spurs around 1969 and at that time they were doing better than Arsenal. Spurs had won the double (the ONLY club to have done that at the time) and won the FA cup several times. But what attracted me most was they were a team who played good passing football. They had flair players like Venables, Greaves, Martin Peters, Alan Gilzean, Ralph Coates, and Allen Mullery.
But I must have been the kiss of death, because they started going down hill a few years later and Arsenal won the double (72 I think).
Oh well - it's about loyalty isn't it lol.
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Salaam chacha
welcome
Nice post and spirit, even when you launch attacks (because they are not directed to me ;D)all you people have gathered on this internet platform to discuss koran and creator. there are millions busy in their day to day life with zero interest in searching the truth. chacha's hats off to freeminders and to the souls managing this platform. i know most of your avatars are silly and annoying. but that is ok. your cause is noble.
That's very kind of you. Thanks on behalf of FM, and sorry about our avatars
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Dear Cosmic Dancer
You registered on 22nd August and very next day initiated the thread which has endlessly been debated upon; yet in couple of days it hit the number 1478 with 209 posts; though you had very clearly said that it has been discussed many times before.
Hitting One's Wife.
? on August 23, 2007, 045818 PM ?
I'm sure this has been discussed many times before - and I'm sure it will be discussed many times again.But I would be interested to hear how members of this forum explain Verse 34 of Sura an-Nisa?{Cosmic Dancer}
And then you started this thread with a ?prophetic? announcement
I suspect this will also be a very controversial issue.
I have never been able to accept the idea of a Mercifil and Compassionate God torturing his creation because they didn't believe.The Qur'an is quite graphic - for example{Cosmic Dancer}
And you proved right since it has already hit 576 with 116 posts.
Kindly permit me to state the meanings of ?Dance?
1- vi move rhythmically to music to move the feet and body rhythmically, usually in time to music.
2- evade issue to talk misleadingly so as to avoid facing an issue squarely (informal)3- evasion evasive talk (informal)
And please permit to draw attention to the fact that Allah granted permission to Iblees {Refer 1764}
Root ? ? The basic concept infolded is to excite; which creates disquiet, and in turn it oozes out in movement becoming light and active. And in common parlance we call it dance.
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Arsenal are a good team under Wenger. They were boring under Graham.
I started supporting Spurs around 1969 and at that time they were doing better than Arsenal. Spurs had won the double (the ONLY club to have done that at the time) and won the FA cup several times. But what attracted me most was they were a team who played good passing football. They had flair players like Venables, Greaves, Martin Peters, Alan Gilzean, Ralph Coates, and Allen Mullery.
But I must have been the kiss of death, because they started going down hill a few years later and Arsenal won the double (72 I think).
Oh well - it's about loyalty isn't it lol.
It is about loyalty. But I think I might have lost interest in 30 years....
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Dear Cosmic Dancer
You registered on 22nd August and very next day initiated the thread which has endlessly been debated upon; yet in couple of days it hit the number 1478 with 209 posts; though you had very clearly said that it has been discussed many times before.
And then you started this thread with a ?prophetic? announcement
And you proved right since it has already hit 576 with 116 posts.
Kindly permit me to state the meanings of ?Dance?
1- vi move rhythmically to music to move the feet and body rhythmically, usually in time to music.
2- evade issue to talk misleadingly so as to avoid facing an issue squarely (informal)3- evasion evasive talk (informal)
And please permit to draw attention to the fact that Allah granted permission to Iblees {Refer 1764}
Root ? ? The basic concept infolded is to excite; which creates disquiet, and in turn it oozes out in movement becoming light and active. And in common parlance we call it dance.
And your point is...?
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It is about loyalty. But I think I might have lost interest in 30 years....
Only an Arsenal fan would say that lol...