Hell
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that is strange, zenje...but i think heavens is more in reference to the sky/god, not paradise.
Cosmicdancer, were the spurs better than arsenal in the 70s?
the thing is, i've never been to england, and I'm not sure if I would support Arsenal without Wenger. I like the club, but what I really love about Arsenal is the players and their style of football and the brillance of their manager.
you better hope Jol doesn't get the sack...Arsenal are a good team under Wenger. They were boring under Graham.
I started supporting Spurs around 1969 and at that time they were doing better than Arsenal. Spurs had won the double (the ONLY club to have done that at the time) and won the FA cup several times. But what attracted me most was they were a team who played good passing football. They had flair players like Venables, Greaves, Martin Peters, Alan Gilzean, Ralph Coates, and Allen Mullery.
But I must have been the kiss of death, because they started going down hill a few years later and Arsenal won the double (72 I think).
Oh well - it's about loyalty isn't it lol.
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Salaam chacha
welcome
Nice post and spirit, even when you launch attacks (because they are not directed to me ;D)all you people have gathered on this internet platform to discuss koran and creator. there are millions busy in their day to day life with zero interest in searching the truth. chacha's hats off to freeminders and to the souls managing this platform. i know most of your avatars are silly and annoying. but that is ok. your cause is noble.
That's very kind of you. Thanks on behalf of FM, and sorry about our avatars
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Dear Cosmic Dancer
You registered on 22nd August and very next day initiated the thread which has endlessly been debated upon; yet in couple of days it hit the number 1478 with 209 posts; though you had very clearly said that it has been discussed many times before.
Hitting One's Wife.
? on August 23, 2007, 045818 PM ?
I'm sure this has been discussed many times before - and I'm sure it will be discussed many times again.But I would be interested to hear how members of this forum explain Verse 34 of Sura an-Nisa?{Cosmic Dancer}
And then you started this thread with a ?prophetic? announcement
I suspect this will also be a very controversial issue.
I have never been able to accept the idea of a Mercifil and Compassionate God torturing his creation because they didn't believe.The Qur'an is quite graphic - for example{Cosmic Dancer}
And you proved right since it has already hit 576 with 116 posts.
Kindly permit me to state the meanings of ?Dance?
1- vi move rhythmically to music to move the feet and body rhythmically, usually in time to music.
2- evade issue to talk misleadingly so as to avoid facing an issue squarely (informal)3- evasion evasive talk (informal)
And please permit to draw attention to the fact that Allah granted permission to Iblees {Refer 1764}
Root ? ? The basic concept infolded is to excite; which creates disquiet, and in turn it oozes out in movement becoming light and active. And in common parlance we call it dance.
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Arsenal are a good team under Wenger. They were boring under Graham.
I started supporting Spurs around 1969 and at that time they were doing better than Arsenal. Spurs had won the double (the ONLY club to have done that at the time) and won the FA cup several times. But what attracted me most was they were a team who played good passing football. They had flair players like Venables, Greaves, Martin Peters, Alan Gilzean, Ralph Coates, and Allen Mullery.
But I must have been the kiss of death, because they started going down hill a few years later and Arsenal won the double (72 I think).
Oh well - it's about loyalty isn't it lol.
It is about loyalty. But I think I might have lost interest in 30 years....
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Dear Cosmic Dancer
You registered on 22nd August and very next day initiated the thread which has endlessly been debated upon; yet in couple of days it hit the number 1478 with 209 posts; though you had very clearly said that it has been discussed many times before.
And then you started this thread with a ?prophetic? announcement
And you proved right since it has already hit 576 with 116 posts.
Kindly permit me to state the meanings of ?Dance?
1- vi move rhythmically to music to move the feet and body rhythmically, usually in time to music.
2- evade issue to talk misleadingly so as to avoid facing an issue squarely (informal)3- evasion evasive talk (informal)
And please permit to draw attention to the fact that Allah granted permission to Iblees {Refer 1764}
Root ? ? The basic concept infolded is to excite; which creates disquiet, and in turn it oozes out in movement becoming light and active. And in common parlance we call it dance.
And your point is...?
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It is about loyalty. But I think I might have lost interest in 30 years....
Only an Arsenal fan would say that lol...
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Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 082321 AM
Dear Cosmic DancerYou registered on 22nd August and very next day initiated the thread which has endlessly been debated upon; yet in couple of days it hit the number 1478 with 209 posts; though you had very clearly said that it has been discussed many times before.
And then you started this thread with a ?prophetic? announcement
And you proved right since it has already hit 576 with 116 posts.
Kindly permit me to state the meanings of ?Dance?
1- vi move rhythmically to music to move the feet and body rhythmically, usually in time to music.
2- evade issue to talk misleadingly so as to avoid facing an issue squarely (informal)3- evasion evasive talk (informal)
And please permit to draw attention to the fact that Allah granted permission to Iblees {Refer 1764}
Root ? ? The basic concept infolded is to excite; which creates disquiet, and in turn it oozes out in movement becoming light and active. And in common parlance we call it dance.
And your point is...?{Cosmic Dancer}
Isn't it self explanatory? Give it a 2nd read, thanks.
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Peace all,
It is not belief but TRUST. Big difference.
The God tells us not to put ourselves in fire, otherwise we will experience pain and misery.
The mumineen TRUST The God and don't put themselves in fire and thus avoid the painful consequences.
The kuffar DO NOT TRUST The God, thereby being likely to put themselves in the fire, thus incurring painful consequences.
We create our own hell by NOT TRUSTING The God. Has nothing to do with BELIEF in The God.
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Isn't it self explanatory? Give it a 2nd read, thanks.
It sounds like you are saying I am the Devil?
Is that what you are saying?
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The kuffar DO NOT TRUST The God, thereby being likely to put themselves in the fire, thus incurring painful consequences.
How did Hell get there?
Who made it so that those who don't trust in God fall into Hell.
If "That is the way it is." - then that implies God had no say or control over something in his creation.
Is that what you believe?
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"It sounds like you are saying I am the Devil?
Is that what you are saying?"{Cosmic Dancer}
I said nothing except giving the accepted meanings of the word "dance"; and then talked about the permission granted by Allah to Iblees. Inferences are yours not mine therefore my confirmation is not needed perhaps. And if you presume yourself to be Devil, which I did not say nor mean, then you could also enjoy about the success rate. People unnecessarily quarrel with the Iblees here and in the hell both but that guy tells them don't blame me, blame yourself. Why should I have a reason of complaint against the Iblees if I myself don't watch my footsteps?
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Peace Cosmic
I've not read this whole thread since it's grown so fast in so short a time, but it seems to me that you are in a state of denial and just won't except that God could create an enviroment suitable to the natures of its inductees. Yes God did create Hell, He being the source, His being the command and follow through.
Joe
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How did Hell get there?
Who made it so that those who don't trust in God fall into Hell.
If "That is the way it is." - then that implies God had no say or control over something in his creation.
Is that what you believe?
I agree with Tanveer on this one.
Kuffar = ones who refuse to see the truth. If they can't see the truth, how can they trust it? If they can't trust it, they can't use it, they can't benefit from it.
mumineen= ones who believe in the truth.
I think belief and trust aren't that different. You trust in someone if you believe in them.
And as I said before, this is not just belief as in saying "I believe in allah and his last messenger" but it is deep belief and it comes from repitition.
When you walk, you don't think about walking. You don't question the ability of your legs to hold you up and carry you forward. You trust your self and your body to get up and walk, because you've done it so many times in the past. That's trust.
Without this trust we can't do anything. So we have to examine what is right and wrong and then build this unbreakable trust in the right. -
I said nothing except giving the accepted meanings of the word "dance"; and then talked about the permission granted by Allah to Iblees. Inferences are yours not mine therefore my confirmation is not needed perhaps. And if you presume yourself to be Devil, which I did not say nor mean, then you could also enjoy about the success rate. People unnecessarily quarrel with the Iblees here and in the hell both but that guy tells them don't blame me, blame yourself. Why should I have a reason of complaint against the Iblees if I myself don't watch my footsteps?
Alrighty then... bye )
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Peace Cosmic
I've not read this whole thread since it's grown so fast in so short a time, but it seems to me that you are in a state of denial and just won't except that God could create an enviroment suitable to the natures of its inductees. Yes God did create Hell, He being the source, His being the command and follow through.
Joe
What do you mean I am in a state of denial?
If you mean that I am denying something that I know to be true - then you are wrong.
I have no reason to believe Hell is true.
If you have some proof - please be my guest and show me the proof.
)
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I agree with Tanveer on this one.
Kuffar = ones who refuse to see the truth. If they can't see the truth, how can they trust it? If they can't trust it, they can't use it, they can't benefit from it.
mumineen= ones who believe in the truth.
I think belief and trust aren't that different. You trust in someone if you believe in them.
And as I said before, this is not just belief as in saying "I believe in allah and his last messenger" but it is deep belief and it comes from repitition.
When you walk, you don't think about walking. You don't question the ability of your legs to hold you up and carry you forward. You trust your self and your body to get up and walk, because you've done it so many times in the past. That's trust.
Without this trust we can't do anything. So we have to examine what is right and wrong and then build this unbreakable trust in the right.But what makes you trust God or what he is supposed to have said in the Qur'an?
ps Spurs did it again yesterday - threw away a 3-1 lead over Fulham - it ended 3-3 - Spurs always make Spurs fan suffer lol
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Well, if we take God as reality, then we have to trust reality, don't we?
I'm really not sure what the word "god" means in the quran...
Spurs like giving away decisive leads....last season in the Carling Cup and FA Cup, they were 2-0 up against Arsenal and 3-1 against Chelski, they ended up getting knocked out from both cups.
sucks to be a spurs fan, but the future looks bright(er).