Banee isra-eel # Isra-eel (3:93, 19:58)
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Peace mq,
To me, Bani Israil is a group of people who are currently in the movement towards Allah under a musa personality.
I see.
The word for 'nation' here is 'qaum'. if you check for occurences, you'll find that its used for ppl of the same standing (qaum comes from same word 'qiyaam' or stand). Its not something racial as far as i can see.
People of the same standing can definitely mean a community, after checking occurences, thats what it's used for as as well (most verses sent to his people etc, so what are 'his people'? His community.)... and if descendants is taken along with it...it can mean descendants of a community...in which case children of israel a community, descended from israel...It doesn't have to be purely racial as a thing can start from one place but is mixed up considerably with time, that doesn't change what is being referenced in my understanding...but I can see there is a difference in the way we take things...Thank you for sharing your understanding.
Nadia
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Peace be upon you,
MQ, why dont you post more man? D
With this understanding, can it be said that all food was lawful except what the individuals journey towards the God made restricted? Maybe one person is allergic to something and therefore restricts him/hersewlf from that, etc.
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PEACE, IDOL,
Peace be upon you,
MQ, why dont you post more man? D
With this understanding, can it be said that all food was lawful except what the individuals journey towards the God made restricted? Maybe one person is allergic to something and therefore restricts him/hersewlf from that, etc.
That wouldn't make that food haram, but simply not tayyib for that individual.
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PEACE, MARIE,
If Israel mean the people of Israel, then we should read like after the word qawm/people (singular form) their self (nafsihim) instead of (nafsihi masculine singular form)
QUES Can nafsihi refer "itself" as well as "himself"? Omar, The Dictionary of the Holy Quran, states it can mean both. Yusef Ali and Muhammad Asad, translates the ayat as follows
393 All food was lawful to the Children of Israel, except what Israel Made unlawful for itself, before the Law (of Moses) was revealed. Say "Bring ye the Law and study it, if ye be men of truth."
PBM Nonetheless, the ayat, does not mention that Allah made something haram.
Can you answer this in the light of the Reading
if Israel is a prophet like Abraham, Noah, did he prohibit some foods according his desire or to what is inspired to Him by the God?
The folowing was my reply to Wakas. I think it is close to what you're asking. If not, I will try to be more on target in my next reply;
WAKAS Well, its very likely he was a prophet , thus held the same restrictions as prior prophets, i.e. the ones we have in 'al quran'. Being a prophet means you are under direct guidance, and under such direction one does not forbid anything without authority (usually), thus it is safe to assume what he forbade was with authority.
I can agree with the above in the main, because the Messenger stated that, "he brought no new doctrine"--469. If the ayat is translated properly as "himself", then, it is possible that the prophet Israel, in making something haram on his own, erred in judgement. While in the capacity of prophet, a prophet could err, whereas, a prophet acting in the capacity of Messenger, could not err.
66.1 O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you; you seek to please your wives; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
661 Ya ayyuha annabiyyu lima tuharrimu ma ahalla Allahu laka tabtaghee mardata azwajika wallahu ghafoorun raheem.
In the above ayat, Allah, by using Yaa (O) is speaking directly to the Prophet. There is no yaa (O) preceding Israel in ayat 393, hence, further indicating that Israel may be referring to a nation and not an individual. The above ayat establishes that a prophet can err, however, if Israel is a prophet in 393, then why didn't Allah correct him as He did the Last Prophet? In both cases, something was halal and then made haram. In addition, man cannot make something haram, only Allah makes haram
1059 Say "See ye what things Allah hath sent down to you for sustenance? Yet you hold haram some things thereof and (some things) halal." Say "Hath Allah indeed permitted you, or do ye invent (things) to attribute to Allah.
Nowhere, in Al-Quran, does Allah give permission for a prophet to declare something to be haram.
If the ayat is referring to a..."himself", then there is no reason to believe the COI, as a people, followed suit. Now, if they did, then, they followed the sunnah of a prophet. If this be the case then, the so-called Muslims today can make an argument for The Last Prophet's so-called sunnah to be followed.
Looking forward to your reply.
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MQ, why dont you post more man?
With this understanding, can it be said that all food was lawful except what the individuals journey towards the God made restricted? Maybe one person is allergic to something and therefore restricts him/hersewlf from that, etc.
I can't 'feel' that, im afraid Kyle. The bells aren't ringing. And as for me, I havent been noting down my own readings. Just been reading off the cuff of late.
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moved....
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Why not using the bible to understand the stories implying the children of Israel ?
You need to ask what your starting point is. If it's the Quran and you accept its as your criteria, the bible fails its test. Furthermore, the Quran is explained in detail and so doesn't need any extra information.
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Salam All,
From 393 and 1958 is describing "Israel" as a person. The Bible explains that Jacob = Israel. However in 1958
1958 Those are those who God blessed/praised on them from the prophets from Adam's descendants; and from who We carried with Noah, , and from Abraham's and Israel's descendants, and from who We guided and We chose/purified, if the merciful's verses/evidences are read/recited on them they fell down prostrating and weeping .
It looks like Abraham and Israel's lineage is totally different. I.e there are two descendants that God carried with Noah, that is Abraham's and Israel's. However with this interpretation will say that the Bani Israel are not the descendants of Abraham, but somebody named "Israel".
Some have suggested that Israel was a prophet. well, so far cant find prove to back up that statement. He maybe a messenger or maybe he is a normal king etc.
Plus he cant be a prophet because he is not corrected by God when he made some food Haram for Bani Israel.Any comments?
salam
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As far as I know, Israel is a people/race, such and such, i.e. descendants of Isaac. See 17104, and if that doesn't conform to reality.
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As far as I know, Israel is a people/race, such and such, i.e. descendants of Isaac. See 17104, and if that doesn't conform to reality.
That's what i thought...
(195
1958 (Asad) THESE WERE some of the prophets upon whom God bestowed His blessings - of the seed of Adam and of those whom We caused to be borne with Noah, and of the seed of Abraham and Israel and among those whom We had guided and elected; whenever the messages of the Most Gracious were conveyed unto them, they would fall down , prostrating themselves and weeping.
It seems to indicate either Israel was someone or that it's a continuation/addition of the Abrahamic dhurriya..
17104 indicates "bani israel" not israel in isolation.
So i'm not sure what israel here means..