is following quran alone even quranic?
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The hadeeth in question is not very strong. It is the only hadeeth from it's narrator that Bukhari narrated. This puts some question marks about the degree of authenticity. The hadeeth goes like this
"Take care of the women for they were created from the rib and the top of the rib is the most crooked. If you try to straighten it, then it will break, so take care of women."
1- The hadeeth was talking to men regarding women. If he were talking to women about men, he could have said something similar but he was not.
2- The message of the hadeeth is positive. Do not push people too hard because you cannot change their nature or you will break them. The message is mainly to the men because they are the ones who want to push changes of the nature of others, women or otherwise. However, the hadeeth does not limit it's message only to women.
3- The Qur'an does say that Adam's spouse was created from him. The hadeeth is consistent with that.
4- The Qur'an says many negative things about humanity and men. It is not negative to point to limitations of some humans. The fact that this hadeeth did not talk about the limitations of men is because they were not the subject. Simple as that.
Take care all
Hussein
I agree 100% with you that this is a weak hadeeth, I also believe this is a baseless hadeeth, which is hearsay, conjecture, and worst of all, a lie against Allah. As said in 693, who is more evil than that?
1 - An awful lot of hadeeth happen to have "men talking regarding women" yet very few if any derogatory towards men.
2 - If the hadeeth is metaphorical, then it can be said the same for men. Do the prophet's words run out, since according to hadeethists, everything he spoke and did was according to revelation? Or do you not subscribe to that school of thought?
3 - No it does not. No it does not. 693, again. It says something completely different that could be taken as if Adam's spouse was created from him, but then we run into a slight, ahem, problem, the idea of God being stupid enough to originate humanity from a series of incestuous relationships. In this light, it can be said that the creation of man is miraculous, since the odds of such an incestuous family/species surviving is very slim. Of course, this is what we call "tripe".
4 - No it does not. It addresses deficiencies in humans equally, whereas in hadeeth, the majority of inhabitants of the fire are... women. According to other hadeeth, someone reciting surah X 7x10^y times will get 7x10^z rewards. I wonder what these women did to lose all that reward.
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Please stop this habit of yours trying to evade answering questions. I answered your question, and you now want to be the one who throws questions? Why don't you want to answer? Because you will show that you do not know what "obey the messenger" really is?
Still, I will answer your question I do not know if he was asked to explain them. I know the answer they claimed came from him is wrong. Two probabilities
(me) Women are not created from a crooked rib because qur'aan makes no differene in male and female creation (as per the qur'aan) The prophet does not utter nonesense (as per the qur'aan). Conclusion The prophet could not have said this hadith ..therefore this hadith is a lie.
(you) (can you fill in your argument please?)Dear Samia
The discussion was going smoothlyYou replied to nerspi
You are right. No one got all the knowledge. People with knowledge are the experts in the filed your querry belongs to. If you want to understand about a disease, for example, you do not search for a righteous person, but you ask a doctor. If you want to know how much your house is worth, ask a surveyor. In the court, judges should seek testimony or proofs from the experts.
I endorsed your statement by replying
I absolutely agree as we need advice of
-doctor for disease
-engineer for building a house
-lawyer for legal matters
We have to consult the Holy ProphetPBUH for explanation of the Quranic laws
His role was "
1To recite the verses
2To teach the book and philosophy of Deen
3To purify the soulsWho can be more expert than the Holy Prophet PBUH himself.
Out of context you suddenly put the question
How about asking him how the female was created?
I told you that this matter must be discussed in a proper sequence and we should not put "cart before the horse" and assured you to discuss this narration at a proper time.
Anyway you evaded the actual question which is 'Marker " of Quranist.Now the question concerning thread ;
1Would you please tell me how male was created according to Quran ?
2Would you please tell me how female was create according to Quran ? -
Bring 693 and then prove your point that you cannot prove. Oh, I forgot, it is your inerring logic that translates and not the language.
hussein
I quoted 693 for the obvious first statement, not to prove a point. 41, 698, 7189 and others are what you are talking about, correct?
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Salaam all,
This is the Aya where the spouse of the first human, Adam, was created from him
41 O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women. Be careful of your duty toward Allah in Whom ye claim ( your rights ) of one another, and toward the wombs (that bore you ). Lo! Allah hath been a Watcher over you
As for the incest issue. God allows exceptions to rules when needed, even today if humanity disappeared and we have only a brother and sister, then God will allow them to marry.
Hussein
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Salaam all,
This is the Aya where the spouse of the first human, Adam, was created from him
41 O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women. Be careful of your duty toward Allah in Whom ye claim ( your rights ) of one another, and toward the wombs (that bore you ). Lo! Allah hath been a Watcher over you
Z Odd, what leads you to conclude from verse 41 that the spouse had been created from Adam, rather than, the other way around- Adam the spouse had been created min-nafsin wahidatin?
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Please stop this habit of yours trying to evade answering questions. I answered your question, and you now want to be the one who throws questions? Why don't you want to answer? Because you will show that you do not know what "obey the messenger" really is?
Some here are not here to learn and just preach their beliefs
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Do you accept Quran as the Criterion or Bukhari is the Criterion?
Do you think this is not a relevant or important question but just superfluous?
Quran and Bukhari both superfluous? Is this the koh noor heera from you to me.
Mazhar Please .A serious discussion is going on.Do not try to detrack it ,otherwise
I assure you we will discuss it but certain questions need to be settled.If not then I will be sure you shed only "PEARLS AND DIAMONDS"{Leoxyz}Any discussion on any point before deciding/determining as to what is the criterion to arrive at the final conclusion about any matter is a waste of time, energy and falls in the category of . I don't mind even if you say that Bukhari is the ultimate criterion then at least we have a common base to discuss about some matter and get verdict from an authority.
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peace
ok i heard from some guy who follows hadith that certain hadith were from Allah, like Allah told muhammad all that was in quran and also some other things that they wrote outside of quran and wrote it in hadith, what do you all think of that?
also, the same guy gave me a verse from quran (i forgot the number), but it's saying that muhammad was given right to forbid or allow thing for people on his own... if anybody remembers that verse, i'd like to hear it, and know what it means
also saying muhammad was an example for us (also mentioned in quran) and we should follow what he did, as described in authentic hadith... what do you all think?
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peace
ok i heard from some guy who follows hadith that certain hadith were from Allah, like Allah told muhammad all that was in quran and also some other things that they wrote outside of quran and wrote it in hadith, what do you all think of that?
also, the same guy gave me a verse from quran (i forgot the number), but it's saying that muhammad was given right to forbid or allow thing for people on his own... if anybody remembers that verse, i'd like to hear it, and know what it means
also saying muhammad was an example for us (also mentioned in quran) and we should follow what he did, as described in authentic hadith... what do you all think?
Yes dear
That is true.
Muslims aer bound to to obey Prophet PBUH and He PBUH is an example for "MUSLIMS" but not for "NON MUSLIMS".332
(332) Say 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.' If they turn away from this then know that Allah does not love those who refuse to obey Him and His Messenger. -
peace
ok i heard from some guy who follows hadith that certain hadith were from Allah, like Allah told muhammad all that was in quran and also some other things that they wrote outside of quran and wrote it in hadith, what do you all think of that?
also, the same guy gave me a verse from quran (i forgot the number), but it's saying that muhammad was given right to forbid or allow thing for people on his own... if anybody remembers that verse, i'd like to hear it, and know what it means
also saying muhammad was an example for us (also mentioned in quran) and we should follow what he did, as described in authentic hadith... what do you all think?
A) Hadeeth Qudsi, they are called. I say, read the first part of 693.
B) 597, 7157. Messenger is a role, not a person and the goal of that role is to deliver the message.
C) Islam is described as the millat (i.e. religion) of Ibrahim, not of Muhammad (227. This must get the Muhammad worshippers' blood boiling. As for authentic hadeeth, correct. Now, show me a hadeeth which you yourself have verified to be authentic according to Quranic guidelines. The verification must be concrete and have no conjecture (something prevalent in the psuedoscience of hearsay).
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peace all
ok what's going on with this
7157 "Those who follow the Gentile messenger prophet whom they find written for them in the Torah and the Injeel; he orders them to goodness, and deters them from evil, and he makes lawful for them the good things, and he forbids for them the evil, and he removes their burden and the shackles that are upon them. So those who believe in him, and support him, and help him persevere, and follow the light that was sent down with him; these are the successful."
597 And whatever God provided to His messenger from the people of the townships, then it shall be to God and His messenger, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. And you may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he withholds you from taking. And be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution.
says in hadeth he said it's wrong to sleep on your left side, to eat with left hand, to enter a room with left foot, said that Allah hates people who sleep on their front side... and many more
who is muhammad to forbid things on his own, that are not forbidden in quran?
why is he allowed to just forbid and allow things left and right on his own, why?
and where are these things written which he forbade or allowed? in hadeth? -
Messenger is a role, not a person and the goal of that role is to deliver the message.
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Messenger is a role, not a person and the goal of that role is to deliver the message.
Half correct Messenger is a role
Half Wrong the goal is to deliver the message
His Duties are
3164
(3164) Surely Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He raised from among them a Messenger to recite to them His signs, and to purify them, and to teach them the Book and Wisdom. For before that they were in manifest error.1Recitation of Verses
2Teaching of the Book and philosophy
3 Purification of SoulsWakas has issued me first warning.
Why do you people spread PEARLS AND DIAMOND ??
When I pick them up "warning is issued" FIRST WARNING -
Half correct Messenger is a role
Half Wrong the goal is to deliver the message
His Duties are
3164
(3164) Surely Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He raised from among them a Messenger to recite to them His signs, and to purify them, and to teach them the Book and Wisdom. For before that they were in manifest error.1Recitation of Verses
2Teaching of the Book and philosophy
3 Purification of SoulsWakas has issued me first warning.
Why do you people spread PEARLS AND DIAMOND ??
When I pick them up "warning is issued" FIRST WARNINGSo if the aya said "Surely Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He raised from among them a postman to deliver the letters, and to fight crime, and to make pizza. For before that they were in manifest error", then "postman"'s role is to deliver letters, fight crime, and make pizza? Another pearl from a hadeethist. Such logic is not unexpected from those who believe in magical flying horses and super-Arabs and those who believe Yusuf Ali is "Quranist".
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So if the aya said "Surely Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He raised from among them a postman to deliver the letters, and to fight crime, and to make pizza. For before that they were in manifest error", then "postman"'s role is to deliver letters, fight crime, and make pizza? Another pearl from a hadeethist. Such logic is not unexpected from those who believe in magical flying horses and super-Arabs and those who believe Yusuf Ali is "Quranist".
The Cat is out the bagThis is mentality of the Quranists
What an exposure of the intentions !!!!All muslims should know.A clear Attack on the integrity of the Holy Prophet and the Holy Quran.
A few days back one Quranist talked about the "FACE of Allah " and this poster tried to prove "FOOT of allah"
Where are moderators now ??.
To call the quranists as brainless is a "CRIME" on this forum and a warning has been issued to me.
What should I call this ?? Brainful post
Wakas !!!
I want to know where do you stand ? -
A clear Attack on the integrity of the Holy Prophet and the Holy Quran.
Where are moderators now ??.
To call the quranists as brainless is a "CRIME" on this forum and a warning has been issued to me.
What should I call this ?? Brain ful post
Wakas !!!
I want to know where do you stand ?Please underline the "clear attack on the integrity of the Holy Prophet and the Holy Quran".
Seems like our troll has gotten too big for his bridge...
Please tell me
A) Who is "Buraq"?
B) What happened when Muhammad supposedly spat into a well or some dried source of water, with hundreds/thousands of thirsty people nearby, according to hadeeth?
C) Did you or did you not accuse Yusuf Ali's translation of being "Quranist" and "tampering"?
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Please underline the "clear attack on the integrity of the Holy Prophet and the Holy Quran".
Seems like our troll has gotten too big for his bridge...
Please tell me
A) Who is "Buraq"?
B) What happened when Muhammad supposedly spat into a well or some dried source of water, with hundreds/thousands of thirsty people nearby, according to hadeeth?
C) Did you or did you not accuse Yusuf Ali's translation of being "Quranist" and "tampering"?
What you are telling me in this post,did I ever mention them?
Then Wakas says ,I call Quranists "Brainless".
Tell me how I can answer those things which I have never mentioned .
Have I ever quoted any Hadith ?
Rather I have objection that Quranists quote Hadiths ?
Let me know you intentions about attacking the integrity of
1Holy Prophet
2Quran
3Allah (where you tried to prove His "Foot" -
ok i heard from some guy who follows hadith that certain hadith were from Allah, like Allah told muhammad all that was in quran and also some other things that they wrote outside of quran and wrote it in hadith, what do you all think of that?
That's ridiculous!
Makes al-quran pointless don't you think? what would be the point of 'sending al-quran down'.
Realize bukhari clamied to have collected over 600,000 hadeeth, that would mean that if he didn't sleep or eat ... he would be collecting a single hadeeth every 28 minutes. Another hint, they didn't have cars then. Also, he originated from Iran (not exactly across the street).
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Dear
That is true
Quran has1Words
which cannot by changed because Allah is by himself custodianUnfortunately this custodianship was not held for the books of hadith and sunna, and this is a good portion of the problem.
While I cannot speak for everyone here, for myself at least I can tell you that it's not that I do not want to follow the prophet. Most of us here, I'm sure, would love to have heard directly what The Prophet said about any given subject, and I'm positive there was a lot he said that would be followed as it would have fit the quran like a glove.
The problem we run into is that since the sayings and doings of the prophet outside of the recitation of the quran were not afforded the same protections by Allah, they are all suspect. Even the books that have been written over the centuries can only conjecture as to the strength of certain hadith (The science of hadith is constantly growing and expanding so that they feel they can be more and more certain, but still they cannot ever be 100% certain). This leaves us with the position that the only book we can truly trust is the Quran itself. Sure we can read through books of hadith and get a general idea of how certain things may have been taught in the time of the prophet, but these can not be accepted as fact.
Even if the isnad of the strongest hadith was 100% accurate, passed down through only the most knowledgable and learned men and women from the prophets time until even the first books of hadith were compiled in a single short century from the death of the Messenger, there is still the possibility of miscommunication. Not because I want there to be, but because humans are frail and, weak, and not very understanding.
Allah promised that the Quran would remain unchanged, I accept that promise and I accept the Quran, he did not promise to keep any other text safe, and therefor I can not accept any other text.
Nurd