How Can A Muslim Marry A Christian?
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amuslim the translation you are using is very faulty. 517 does not say pagans (mushrikeen) it says disbelievers
They indeed have disbelieved who say Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. (517)
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Peace Yusha
amuslim the translation you are using is very faulty. 517 does not say pagans (mushrikeen) it says disbelievers
They indeed have disbelieved who say Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. (517)
A pagan is a disbeliever, it can mean that or a polythiest. I actually look at other translations before I post one and most just said disbeliever except for this one. I figure that since the ayat is speaking of those that mention partners with God, Pagan would be the best translation of Kafar.
Again, these are not Christians.
Peace
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All idolators (mushrikeen) are disbelievers, but not all disbelievers are idolators. Satan is a disbeliever (kafir) but he is not an idolator, indeed he believes in Allah as the one Lord, but he is still a disbeliever. This is why people should use a more precise translation, especially for the Quran, no word it uses is of any consequence, but purposely used by Allah in His infinite wisdom.
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Peace Yusha
All idolators (mushrikeen) are disbelievers, but not all disbelievers are idolators. Satan is a disbeliever (kafir) but he is not an idolator, indeed he believes in Allah as the one Lord, but he is still a disbeliever. This is why people should use a more precise translation, especially for the Quran, no word it uses is of any consequence, but purposely used by Allah in His infinite wisdom.
So are you telling me that by making Jesus as Allah is not shirk? Are "Christians" that do this exempt from being shirk, even though what they do is shirk?
Peace
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So are you telling me that by making Jesus as Allah is not shirk? Are "Christians" that do this exempt from being shirk, even though what they do is shirk?
Peace
Of course it is shirk! I am the one who said Christians are mushrikeen. All I am saying to you is your translation of the Quran is not completely accurate, that's all.
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And behold, We said to the angels "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so iblis he refused and was haughty He was of those who reject Faith (234)
Iblis is among the KAFIREEN which means he disbelieves in Allah or His attributes or even in the status of Adam (Alaihi salaam) which is enough to render one as a disbeliever.
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A rejector, not a disbeliever.
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That is simply Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation. He translates disbeliever as one who rejects faith. Both mean the same thing. Here is an alternative translation by Picktall
And when We said unto the angels Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever. (234)
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It's a bad translation. Disbeliever means someone who denies their perception, and Satan never denied his perceptions. Translating "kafir" as "disbeliever" or "unbeliever" causes much strife and misleads people into thinking Islam preaches against non-adherents.
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Kafir means disbeliever, rejector of faith, unbeliever, non-believer, rejector, etc., they all mean the same thing in English. And the fact of the matter is the Holy Quran preaches very strongly against disbelievers (non-Muslims).
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). (385)
There is no need to be politically correct about the Holy Quran in order to please the disbelievers.
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Kafir means disbeliever, rejector of faith, unbeliever, non-believer, rejector, etc., they all mean the same thing in English. And the fact of the matter is the Holy Quran preaches very strongly against disbelievers (non-Muslims).
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). (385)
There is no need to be politically correct about the Holy Quran in order to please the disbelievers.
There is no political correctness (other than common courtesy, i.e. the lack of condemning a person to hell out of ignorance...) here. Why did you leave "islam" untranslated? Many people - non-adherents - who are kafir by your standards can be described as muslims, those who submit to God and strive for the best within their ability and knowledge.
Regardless, "disbeliever" is NOT the same thing is "rejector" or other. Unbeliever/disbeliever is a broad term. Rejector is specific, needing an active rejection instead of a passive lack of belief, and in-line with the obvious Quranic principle that people will be judged by their knowledge and perception, not on what they never knew. This is a very widely echoed principle in the Sunni world, and it is plastered in effectively every book regarding unbelievers, how can you miss it?
I had a person in the streets telling me the other day, pointing to people and calling them "kafir" left and right, and the only question is, "How do you bloody know?!?!".
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The standard for submission to Allah in the least common denominator is belief and Allah and His Messenger Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wa salaam)
"Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the messenger. then write us down among those who bear witness." (353)
O ye who believe! believe in Allah and His messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His messenger, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray. (4136)
So you see the standard for being a believer and a Muslim is to believe in what Allah has revealed (The Holy Quran), to believe in His Messenger (Muhammad), and also to believe in His Angels and the Day of Judgment. This is the standard of submission, anything less is kufr (Disbelief). If we apply this standard than no Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, etc., can be a "Submitter" so long as they reject the Holy Quran and the Holy Prophet.
Your contention is simply not supported by the Holy Quran. The Quran has defined every essential theological matter for us, why should we make up our own theories when it has already issued the decisive beliefs?
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If only you read more carefully.
Firstly, 353 does not refer specifically to Muhammad - PERIOD. This is evidenced by the obvious reference to Jesus in the preceding verse and the universality of the order to obey the rasool. The Quran states that messengers will be sent to the most distinct city/region of every nation (2859). Additionaly, I believe you will agree with me that 17104 is referring to the present day state of Israel where they are indeed a diverse crowd, and it prophesises their destruction. This shows that while Muhammad is the last nabi (no question), there will be rasools afterwards. In any case, you took 353 out of context.
As for 4136 - again, please look at the context. It is addressed to those who believe, and a command to continue believing. The second part needs active denounciation which goes exactly in line with the definition of "kafir" as "rejector". Again - this is a common theme in Sunni texts, which state that a person can be called "kafir" only if they know the message clearly, and have had clear signs, and still denounce it - in the case of iblees for instance.
Here, is a Shia reference http//www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e49.html
And Sunni http//www.themodernreligion.com/ugly/kafr.html (Yusuf Ali's commentary there, again echoing my sentiments)Please, Yusha, pick up a book or sixteen, you might learn something (on this subject). The Quran is not "holy" in any way, shape or form. There is only one entity worthy of being called "holy", PERIOD. My contention is more than supported by the Quran, and even Yusuf Ali whose translation you used states clearly that "kafir" is qualified by ACTIVE & RESPONSIBLE REJECTION.
494 - O you who believe! when you go to war in Allah's way, make investigation, and do not say to any one who offers you peace You are not a believer. Do you seek goods of this world's life! But with Allah there are abundant gains; you too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; therefore make investigation; surely Allah is aware of what you do.
Case closed. slams hammer on table
If you want to assign a name to the rasool in "Allah and his Messenger", then your angel Gabriel qualifies far better, in any case, having single-handedly delivered the message to every single rasool and nabi alive.
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Peace Yusha
Of course it is shirk! I am the one who said Christians are mushrikeen. All I am saying to you is your translation of the Quran is not completely accurate, that's all.
Where does it say that we can marry the idolater Christians? We are not allowed to marry such people, but we can marry Monotheist Christians.
Peace
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So, will I get a response to that? Please show me where I go wrong.
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If only you read more carefully.
Firstly, 353 does not refer specifically to Muhammad - PERIOD. This is evidenced by the obvious reference to Jesus in the preceding verse and the universality of the order to obey the rasool. The Quran states that messengers will be sent to the most distinct city/region of every nation (2859). Additionaly, I believe you will agree with me that 17104 is referring to the present day state of Israel where they are indeed a diverse crowd, and it prophesises their destruction. This shows that while Muhammad is the last nabi (no question), there will be rasools afterwards. In any case, you took 353 out of context.
As for 4136 - again, please look at the context. It is addressed to those who believe, and a command to continue believing. The second part needs active denounciation which goes exactly in line with the definition of "kafir" as "rejector". Again - this is a common theme in Sunni texts, which state that a person can be called "kafir" only if they know the message clearly, and have had clear signs, and still denounce it - in the case of iblees for instance.
Here, is a Shia reference http//www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e49.html
And Sunni http//www.themodernreligion.com/ugly/kafr.html (Yusuf Ali's commentary there, again echoing my sentiments)Please, Yusha, pick up a book or sixteen, you might learn something (on this subject). The Quran is not "holy" in any way, shape or form. There is only one entity worthy of being called "holy", PERIOD. My contention is more than supported by the Quran, and even Yusuf Ali whose translation you used states clearly that "kafir" is qualified by ACTIVE & RESPONSIBLE REJECTION.
494 - O you who believe! when you go to war in Allah's way, make investigation, and do not say to any one who offers you peace You are not a believer. Do you seek goods of this world's life! But with Allah there are abundant gains; you too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; therefore make investigation; surely Allah is aware of what you do.
Case closed. slams hammer on table
If you want to assign a name to the rasool in "Allah and his Messenger", then your angel Gabriel qualifies far better, in any case, having single-handedly delivered the message to every single rasool and nabi alive.
My exact thoughts. Well done!!
PEACE
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many Quakers could be called tawhid Christians. there are also Unitarian Christians, Christadelphians, and others.
a dear friend of mine is Christian, Baptist, and we have discussed marriage. but we can both see where there would be troubles... he is a Biblical literalist, i am a Quran-alone Muslim. i will sit down with him in the next week or so to discuss faith, God, and deen. he asks me what Christianity lacks for me to turn to Islam and i answered "simplicity". of course i would love for him to at least deepen his prayer life and open his mind a bit. we will see... whatever God wills.
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I'm 99.99% certain that the Evangelists ( Protestant division ) do NOT believe in the trinity. They are basically Bible-only Christians, who believe anything extra-Biblical is not from God. ( Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible ). THe Evangelists are usually a bit extremist and will go as far as to accuse the Catholics of being idol-worshippers, and innovators who bow down before paintings and statues . I remember one of my classmates back in Lebanon , during my High-school days, was an Protestant Evangelist. She invited me once to visit one of their churches. I noticed the absence of any statues, paintings or images of Christ and other such things. ( She said the Catholics made those up ). All they had was plain wooden crosses ( no figure of Christ on them ). Also, their priests do not believe in "Vow of Chastity ". They can marry and have children normally.
Peace.
I am 100% certain that Evangelists from the Protestant Division do believe in the trinity...
How do I know?
I used to be one.
Now if they believe they believe in three gods, that is a different question.
The basic tenet in order to be a christian is to believe in the trinty or the concept of.
I believe the quran says those who claim Jesus was son of God or one of the trinity then they are rejectors, right?
Lebananese chrisitans primarily are catholic and orthodox with some maronites and variations, if they adhere to the trinity or not..they still believe Jesus was God's son, right?
Most trinitarians beleive in the trinitys' concepts, but when asked how many gods are there they will say one, but probe a bit further and you will see there real beleifs...
Sakina