Hell

nadeem

Peace,

Your deeds define who you are and what you believe in. Your tongue has no say in it.

Try that axiom while trying to understand why a believe deserves heaven, and why a disbeliever deserves hell.

Nadeem

SatanHatesMe

So when God says he will burn skins of unbelievers and replace them, over and over again, it is really a metaphore for some other form of indescribable torture.

CosmicDancer, where is your proof that GOD torture people? Where is your evidence of this?

SatanHatesMe

Cosmic Dancer,

Regardless of who they punish torture is unacceptable.

where is you proof that GOD will torture people in the Quran?
Also, where is you proof that the term "torture" is used in the Quran or the bible of something?
Please present a reference of something.. thanks

cosmicdancer

CosmicDancer, where is your proof that GOD torture people? Where is your evidence of this?

I don't believe God tortures people.

The Qur'an (which I don't believe in) says God tortures people. Here are a few verses

I will drive him into Hellfire. And what can make you know what is Hellfire? It lets nothing remain and leaves nothing (unburned), altering the skins. (7426-29)

"As for those who reject Our Signs, We will roast them in a Fire. Every time their skins are burned off, We will replace them with new skins so that they can taste the punishment" (456)

"As for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured over their heads, melting that which is in their bellies and their skins too, and for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape they are driven back therein and (it will be said) Taste the doom of burning." (2219-22)

phoenix1

peace

http//mwillett.org/atheism/eternal.htm

here's an article I found...I agree with it to some extent.
As I mentioned before, I used to have nightmares about heaven. I have never particularly liked the idea of an eternal heaven.
We all hate death, but that's what makes life worth it. The realization that one day all of this will end so we better get on with it.
And we all hate conflicts and problems, but those are what make life interesting. Would our goals mean anything if we would achieve them with a snap of our fingers?
But wait...would we even have goals? What's the point of life without goals?
Life in heaven will just be living and living and living and living and living and living.....

unknownuser

As I mentioned before, I used to have nightmares about heaven. I have never particularly liked the idea of an eternal heaven.

Me too, I'm surprised someone else got affected like I did. It would make me shudder just thinking about it. Fear of eternity is worse than any other fear.

nadeem

peace

http//mwillett.org/atheism/eternal.htm

here's an article I found...I agree with it to some extent.
As I mentioned before, I used to have nightmares about heaven. I have never particularly liked the idea of an eternal heaven.
We all hate death, but that's what makes life worth it. The realization that one day all of this will end so we better get on with it.
And we all hate conflicts and problems, but those are what make life interesting. Would our goals mean anything if we would achieve them with a snap of our fingers?
But wait...would we even have goals? What's the point of life without goals?
Life in heaven will just be living and living and living and living and living and living.....

Thought provoking and amusing article. Thanks for linking bro.

I assume you know Urdu, so it follows that you would've heard of this

zidd hain
ab toh hain khud ko mitana
hona hain tujhmein fanaa

Which read "There is determinition, now there is for me to erase myself, to become annihilated within you."

What does it mean to be annihilated within your beloved? Think about it. As one singer puts it

Mein ishq da piyala pee aaya.
Ek pal mein sadiyan jee aaya

Which reads "I drank from the cup of love; In a moment I lived for centuries."

Could this experience be juxtaposed with the hereafter?

I mean, don't you wish that the moment lasted forever when you're intimate with your loved one?

Shouldn't the same go for god?

Nadeem

cosmicdancer

Me too, I'm surprised someone else got affected like I did. It would make me shudder just thinking about it. Fear of eternity is worse than any other fear.

I find it scary too. Eternity blows my mind - I can't get my head round it.

SatanHatesMe

I don't believe God tortures people.

where is your proof he doesn't? Oh you just "believe" right?

The Qur'an (which I don't believe in) says God tortures people. Here are a few verses

?I will drive him into Hellfire. And what can make you know what is Hellfire? It lets nothing remain and leaves nothing (unburned), altering the skins.? (7426-29)

"As for those who reject Our Signs, We will roast them in a Fire. Every time their skins are burned off, We will replace them with new skins so that they can taste the punishment" (456)

"As for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured over their heads, melting that which is in their bellies and their skins too, and for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape they are driven back therein and (it will be said) Taste the doom of burning." (2219-22)

7426-29 you have a wrong interpretation. those verses doesn't refer to Hell in any degree.
456 i have already explain. is it torture CosmicDancer to tell your child that he/she will feel constant pain if he/she does drugs? or if he cuts her/himself? is it torture to warning your child of the horrors of situation or place? be logical.
2219-22 is the same situations. Read verse 226. all these verse can be view symbolically.

The Qur'an (which I don't believe in) says God tortures people.

Im interested to hear and know your theory on what happen to people you have commit huge acts of evil and violence to innocent people when they die (especially if they were never punish or caught in this life)? Do you believe nothing happens to them right cosmicdance? Or do you believe they simply return back to the cosmos and live happily without justice right? OR do you believe they simply stop existing like all human being will do and have no accountability?

please explain your theory of accountability and justice. And please provide proof that GOD doesnt torture people.

thanks

cosmicdancer

where is your proof he doesn't? Oh you just "believe" right?

7426-29 you have a wrong interpretation. those verses doesn't refer to Hell in any degree.
456 i have already explain. is it torture CosmicDancer to tell your child that he/she will feel constant pain if he/she does drugs? or if he cuts her/himself? is it torture to warning your child of the horrors of situation or place? be logical.
2219-22 is the same situations. Read verse 226. all these verse can be view symbolically.
Im interested to hear and know your theory on what happen to people you have commit huge acts of evil and violence to innocent people when they die (especially if they were never punish or caught in this life)? Do you believe nothing happens to them right cosmicdance? Or do you believe they simply return back to the cosmos and live happily without justice right? OR do you believe they simply stop existing like all human being will do and have no accountability?

please explain your theory of accountability and justice. And please provide proof that GOD doesnt torture people.

thanks

Goodbye SatanHatesme.

Take care.

Best wishes to all.

Live long and prosper!

)

Leoxyz

where is your proof he doesn't? Oh you just "believe" right?

7426-29 you have a wrong interpretation. those verses doesn't refer to Hell in any degree.

If they do not refer to Hell ,then to what ??

SatanHatesMe

Goodbye SatanHatesme.

Take care.

Best wishes to all.

Live long and prosper!

if you don't believe in the Quran any more and don't think GOD put people in Hell, im sure a smart person like yourself made those decisions on factual evidence. All i was asking is for you to present it.

Oh i see, when i ask you about your belief and evidence of it, you don't want to talk to me any more. I guess you just want to kick up dust it seems.

phoenix1

peace

Nadeem, do you speak urdu?

Mein ishq da piyala pee aaya.
Ek pal mein sadiyan jee aaya

Which reads "I drank from the cup of love; In a moment I lived for centuries."

Yes!
I read somewhere about the "true meaning" of eternity. It was that eternity (in a religious/spiritual context) doesn't refer to a long period of time, but "pure presense" or something like that. I didn't quite understand it very well.
But whatever that guy said, we can't say the quran means that too.

OPF,

Me too, I'm surprised someone else got affected like I did. It would make me shudder just thinking about it. Fear of eternity is worse than any other fear.

Are you being serious? My sarcasm meter isn't working today.

unknownuser

456 i have already explain. is it torture CosmicDancer to tell your child that he/she will feel constant pain if he/she does drugs? or if he cuts her/himself? is it torture to warning your child of the horrors of situation or place? be logical.
If your child does not listen and continues to do drugs, what are YOU going to do?

If you child or family member does not believe in some of the things you say, such as, your child does not believe in code-19, what are YOU going to do?

Im interested to hear and know your theory on what happen to people you have commit huge acts of evil and violence to innocent people when they die (especially if they were never punish or caught in this life)? Do you believe nothing happens to them right cosmicdance? Or do you believe they simply return back to the cosmos and live happily without justice right? OR do you believe they simply stop existing like all human being will do and have no accountability?
No human has ever known what happens after death? If you've been there or resurrected back on earth, then let us know?

unknownuser

zidd hain
ab toh hain khud ko mitana
hona hain tujhmein fanaa

Mein ishq da piyala pee aaya.
Ek pal mein sadiyan jee aaya
http//youtube.com/watch?v=iey6L69ORGE (my most favourite btw).

unknownuser

peace

Nadeem, do you speak urdu?Yes!
I read somewhere about the "true meaning" of eternity. It was that eternity (in a religious/spiritual context) doesn't refer to a long period of time, but "pure presense" or something like that. I didn't quite understand it very well.
But whatever that guy said, we can't say the quran means that too.

OPF,Are you being serious? My sarcasm meter isn't working today.

Not at all, it drove me to study hadeeth for an answer ;D

phoenix1

The reason I guess I never had nightmares about hell is because the idea of living in hell is too horrible to even dream about.
Heaven, no matter how horrible it might be, is better than hell. I'll take eternal boredom over eternal pain any day.

what did the prophet say?

SatanHatesMe

If your child does not listen and continues to do drugs, what are YOU going to do?

If you child or family member does not believe in some of the things you say, such as, your child does not believe in code-19, what are YOU going to do?

You missed the point Genteel. It?s not about me or you or the child. It's about the warnings. That fact is there is no harm in warnings. Harshness or gentle warnings are still warnings.

Be logical. Hell is what it is. To warn people of it is not wrong, even if the warnings are harsh and stern. GOD testifies that Hell is a horrific place. To warning us of it doesn?t testify that GOD torture people in Hell. You nor CosmicDancer can present one verse that says GOD will torture people in hell. All verses in the Quran with regards to hell and retribution are symbolic. CosmicDancer has taken then literally and have a misconception that such retribution is unjust base on his human, limited knowledge, and self-indeludge standards.

unknownuser

Supposing that CD's morality is true (that the descriptions are torture), then with the Quranic statements, it becomes apparent that either NOBODY gets tortured, or after us, there'll be people that make Hitler look like a flamboyant San Francisco inhabitant.

unknownuser

You missed the point Genteel. It?s not about me or you or the child. It's about the warnings. That fact is there is no harm in warnings. Harshness or gentle warnings are still warnings.
I didn't miss your point, SHM. I asked you couple of questions in response to your statements made which you did not answer. To tell someone or warn someone, is obviously not torture. How one handles the situation after the fact that your "telling" falls on deaf ears, is what I am interested in, as in the example of child you presented.

is it torture CosmicDancer to tell your child that he/she will feel constant pain if he/she does drugs? or if he cuts her/himself? is it torture to warning your child of the horrors of situation or place? be logical.