Ramadan
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Peace nun de plume, all
the usual translation of sayyan is "to fast" but it actually is "to abstain"
the question is abstain from what ? we have the abstaining from communication in quran (marie) and in the verses on shahr ramadan we suppose it is food and drink and sex because these are mentioned in the subsequent verses
but other understandings are possible, see mz's "shahr" thesis
elke
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Peace Elke,
the usual translation of sayyan is "to fast" but it actually is "to abstain"
the question is abstain from what ?
Abstain from all those things allowed after night fall till dawn the next day...
http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/2/187
(It) became/is permitted/allowed to you (the) night of the fasting the obscenity/ indecency (intercourse), to your women (wives), they are (F) a cover/wives to you and you are a cover/husbands tothem (F), God knew that you were betraying/being unfaithful (to) yourselves, so He forgave on you, and He forgave/pardoned on you, so now touch their (F) outer skin , and desire (seek) what God has written/dictated for you, and eat and drink until the thread the white appears from the thread the black from the dawn, then complete the fasting to the night and do not touch their outer skin (while) you are devoting in the mosques/places of worshipping God. Those are God's limits/orders , so do not approach/near it, like that God clarifies His verses/evidences to the people, maybe they fear and obey (God).peace
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I had just started fasting Ramadan according to traditionalist and I found freeminds website. The information presented made sense to me. I have gained understanding, but since I was just beginining my Ramadan fast should I continue it for 30 days, even though I now have an understanding that Ramadan should have occured earlier in the year and only for 10 days or should I just fast the ten days now?
Salam.
welcome to the forum, brother.
Ramadan of the year 2007 started on July 01. and ended on July 30th.It's okay, you finish you fast, fast for 30 days and then next year you will know, God willing.
May The Exalted God Tghe Most Powerful guide you on The Straight Path to Paradise.
Peace.
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Salam,
I believe 2183-184 and 2185 are speaking of 2 seperate fasts.
2183-184 speaks of the
ayyam madoodatwhich was decreed to us as to people before us. While 2185 is speaking of the month in which the revealtion of the Quran took place, and that those who are able to witness such a month should fast therin.Normal fast = 10 days
Special fast (witnessing the mont) = 30 daysTotal possible fast = 40 days (the same period Moses took to speak with God).
also, please note that the Quran was revealed in a night which is equivalent to 1,000 months, most possibly indicating it as a special phenomena which does not appear to often.
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Salam Samia,
I would say that the witnessing is for the month, meaning that there is a specific visual or otherwise known event that would mark this month as the
ramadhanmonth.The event that comes to mind could be a lunar eclipse which would turn the full moon blood red in color for a few minutes. This event would occur infrequently at one given point (say Jerusalem). The blood red color could be the
scorchtingthat the word describes.I am only throwing out ideas here. Nothing concrete.
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Salaam Sister Samia
First of all many thanks for your great input on all topics that r being discussed on free minds.I really appreciate your in depth knowledge and have learnt a lot from you.Please allow me to learn more on this site as I am no expert nor have enough knowledge to argue with any one of you.My above post is my understanding as I could not believe why GOD want us to go through this ( FASTING ) ritual when there is no other ritual in his religion.
Coming back to your question in 2185 " Those of you who witness this month shall fast therein " my understanding is that GOD is referring to THOSE ( person or group of people who have violated any one of above mentioned laws ).
Lets understand this by an example
I am that person whom GOD is talking about in 589
OATH VIOLATION
GOD does not hold you responsible for the mere utterance of oaths; He holds you responsible for your actual intentions. If you violate an oath, you shall atone by feeding ten poor people from the same food you offer to your own family, or clothing them, or by freeing a slave. If you cannot afford this, then you shall fast three days. This is the atonement for violating the oaths that you swore to keep. You shall fulfill your oaths. GOD thus explains His revelations to you, that you may be appreciative.
Now as per 2185 I am that person who has to fast when I witness the month of scorching heat or in other way when I witness the month of Ramadan.Since I have violated an oath my punishment is to fast 3 days if I cannot feed ten poor people , or cloth them or free a slave.
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Salaams Nun, All,
Qd says;
Laylatun=
decadence=
low moral standards and behaviour2187
Is allowed for you (during) abstaining of decadence, consorting with your women they hold social intercourse with you and you hold social intercourse with them, knew Allah that you were deceiving yourselves so he bestowed repentance upon you and forgave you, now associate and seek what ordained Allah for you and support and permeate as until becomes distinct/ clear to you understanding of the going aside from the right path then abstain the decadence and not associate with it while you stick to the submissions these limits of Allah so not approach thus, makes clear Allah??.Salaams.
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Greetings mz,
As you know, I've been trying to come to terms with what I understand is expected of us in terms of 'abstaining'. In my heart and in my realm of understanding, what I grasp is very similar to your understanding. That being said, Dr. Ayman's interpretation -- as he presents it--seems to make for a sound understanding Qur'anically speaking and I found myself in the last week leaning toward his interpretation. However, as the events pass in my life as this 'ramadan' progresses, I am reminded of how many people 'fast' from food and have little or no improvement in who they are or how they relate to others. As such, I've found myself bending back toward the understanding you and I share. How many times -- any of us are so 'incensed' by something that happens in our lives and in the 'heat' of the moment, we act on our urges, our desires, only to feel sorry and embarrassed later for it when we have 'cooled' down? I dare say it has happened to every single one of us. Now, if we take the Qur'anic injunction for 'abstinence' to mean abstaining from this crazy act of passion, then we have avoided an embarrassing situation.
My question to you is can this understanding of what is meant for us to do as an act of 'abstaining' work throughout the Qur'an? Have you already expounded on this and I've missed the post? If so, excuse my oversight and please direct me to your previous posts.
Thank you!
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Greetings mz,
As you know, I've been trying to come to terms with what I understand is expected of us in terms of 'abstaining'. In my heart and in my realm of understanding, what I grasp is very similar to your understanding. That being said, Dr. Ayman's interpretation -- as he presents it--seems to make for a sound understanding Qur'anically speaking and I found myself in the last week leaning toward his interpretation. However, as the events pass in my life as this 'ramadan' progresses, I am reminded of how many people 'fast' from food and have little or no improvement in who they are or how they relate to others. As such, I've found myself bending back toward the understanding you and I share. How many times -- any of us are so 'incensed' by something that happens in our lives and in the 'heat' of the moment, we act on our urges, our desires, only to feel sorry and embarrassed later for it when we have 'cooled' down? I dare say it has happened to every single one of us. Now, if we take the Qur'anic injunction for 'abstinence' to mean abstaining from this crazy act of passion, then we have avoided an embarrassing situation.
My question to you is can this understanding of what is meant for us to do as an act of 'abstaining' work throughout the Qur'an? Have you already expounded on this and I've missed the post? If so, excuse my oversight and please direct me to your previous posts.
Thank you!
Salaams Ilisa,
yes i believe it does apply throughout the quran, but my translation is bits at different places at free-minds - i will i think bring it all together some time in the near future.
but here is a portion of the quran with original translation with as i see it.
(interesting- http//www.secretplaceministries.org/pages/articles/fasting_the_tongue.html )
Here people doing wrong??
002.181
YUSUFALI If anyone changes the bequest after hearing it, the guilt shall be on those who make the change. For Allah hears and knows (All things).
002.182
YUSUFALI But if anyone fears partiality or wrong-doing on the part of the testator, and makes peace between (The parties concerned), there is no wrong in him For Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.On realizing/ or when they realize they are wrong they need to quite the spirit and listen to God-feel the feeling and be charitable for redemption-so as not to do it again.
2183
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint,-
002.184
YUSUFALI (Fasting) for a fixed number of days; but if any of you is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed number (Should be made up) from days later. For those who can do it (With hardship), is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent. But he that will give more, of his own free will,- it is better for him. And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew.It was such time that portions of the quran was inspired. So quite the spirit when you realize you are in the wrong and seek redemption.
002.185
YUSUFALI Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.And listen to God.
2186
YUSUFALI When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them) I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me That they may walk in the right way.And consult your partner in the matter as they may be more receptive to inspiration or having known may advice you.
2187
YUSUFALI Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) Allah Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men that they may learn self-restraint.Don?t have wrong intentions and bribe others.
002.188
YUSUFALI And do not eat up your property among yourselves for vanities, nor use it as bait for the judges, with intent that ye may eat up wrongfully and knowingly a little of (other) people's property.Such a people need to change their desires and embody the attributes to prosper.
002.189
YUSUFALI They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say They are but signs to mark fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter your houses from the back It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors And fear Allah That ye may prosper.God Bless.......
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Peace Layth, everyone,
The event that comes to mind could be a lunar eclipse which would turn the full moon blood red in color for a few minutes. This event would occur infrequently at one given point (say Jerusalem). The blood red color could be the
scorchtingthat the word describes.<--------- See my avatar. This is the blood red color of the full moon right after the summer solstice, which is also during the hottest time of the year (red+hot=scorching). Everyone around the world can see this with their own eyes.
I hope this helps.
Peace,
Ayman
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Greetings Dr. Ayman,
<--------- See my avatar. This is the blood red color of the full moon right after the summer solstice, which is also during the hottest time of the year (red+hot=scorching). Everyone around the world can see this with their own eyes.
Yes, I did see this before and realized what it is. That is what is so convincing. This is a very, very good point. In fact, this year during the time of the 'scorching heat', I thought about fasting, but didn't -- for whatever reason. Despite this, I admit that I do have it in my mind to fast the next upcoming one to see how I fare -- how it feels and what benefit I reap from it. I'm planning to do this not only because your thesis is so sound, but I did some research and there is a long history of other groups of people recognizing the significance of the full moon closest to the summer solstice --that it is a time to receive guidance and spiritual insight, so they fast or perform specific rituals. This point in particular adds significant weight to the validity of your understanding as far as I'm concerned.
Additionally, as I have mentioned in another posting here, I feel that to fast a 'ramadan' at different times every year -- out of sync with the earth and its seasons, is very disorienting. I did it for 18 years and it just never felt 'right', always a bit out of balance. In general, I found it to be very 'off-putting'.
I have still not come to a conclusion which understanding is best. I guess that what I'm hoping for in my heart, is that when I abstain from food and drink next year at the time of the 'scorching heat' that I will gain particular guidance or insight that will help improve my spiritual 'lackings'. That, certainly, would be a most satisfying outcome to this for me on a personal level. Then I will feel that I 'know' and truly understand what it means to 'witness shahr ramadan' and what Sawm means. Until then, I guess I'm still hanging.....
But thank you for your post, and giving me the opportunity to think about this yet again.
handshake
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i still could not figure out why every one of us has to fast/abstain.Where in the quran can we find this commandment?????????
As I understand it is being taken from Surah al Baqarah, from that ayat around and including ayah 185 -- but I wonder why there is only reference in this passage to being with your 'wives' and not 'spouses' if the abstention applies to both genders.
So I see your point.
Anyone got the answer??
Dr. Ayman?
Or perhaps mz's thesis fits this best?
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Peace,
Yes, Lisa now when you says it I also wonder why not mention spouses instead of "wives"?
I hope though that it isn't a male thing, like it's the male who approach his wife and not the opposite, hmm.
Peace
Maria -
As I understand it is being taken from Surah al Baqarah, from that ayat around and including ayah 185 -- but I wonder why there is only reference in this passage to being with your 'wives' and not 'spouses' if the abstention applies to both genders.
So I see your point.
Anyone got the answer??
Dr. Ayman?
Or perhaps mz's thesis fits this best?
Peace,
Yes, Lisa now when you says it I also wonder why not mention spouses instead of "wives"?
I hope though that it isn't a male thing, like it's the male who approach his wife and not the opposite, hmm.
Peace
MariaThere are two facts that we agree on
1- The quraan addresses both genders.
2- The address to both genders together takes the masculine form, which we call "generic masculine" i.e it contains the female.When we have such an address with generic masculine, the feminine it entails is also a "generic feminine", i.e it contains the male. Example 443; 56. This is what I call specific sociolinguistics of the quraan.
