Earth like an Ostrich Egg or like a Pizza?
-
Yes but why are YOU better than the scholars? Seems like if you don't like what they say, you'll simply put your creative cap on make up whatever you want.
No, I'll use logic and my knowledge of Arabic and the Quran to come up with the right translation.
And there's no agreed upon meaning for the Quran then either, right? So who's Quran should I read?
If you want to read it for guidance, then go for any translation I think. The problem is in translating words that have many different meanings.
But let's face it, a lot of this is horse manure.
No, it is not.
It's pretty funny how there usually appears to be universal agreement on the meaning of a non problematic verses, and they are thought to be clear.
There is even disagreement on the "non problematic verses".
But the moment a verse appears to be problematic, then immediately that becomes the mysterious verse where we don't really know what it means.
As I said, disagreemets are there on the "problematic" and "non problematic verses". The problem mainly lies in translating words that have more than 100 different meanings.
Honestly, who do you people think you are fooling?
We are not fooling anybody, we are sincerely trying to know our religion in good faith.
How are you so unashamedly skewed and subjective?
Anyone can be sometimes skewed and subjective when it comes important matters such as faith. This is human nature.
-
No, I'll use logic and my knowledge of Arabic and the Quran to come up with the right translation.
Isn't that what the translators did too? What you really mean by "right translation" is a translation that makes you feel good.
If you want to read it for guidance, then go for any translation I think.
Well, part of guidance is whther the quran tells us the earth is egg shaped or flat.
The problem is in translating words that have many different meanings.
So what? Same thing as English. you use context to figure it out.
No, it is not.There is even disagreement on the "non problematic verses".
Well, not for the most part. Clearly a skew falls on the problematic verses.
As I said, disagreemets are there on the "problematic" and "non problematic verses". The problem mainly lies in translating words that have more than 100 different meanings.We are not fooling anybody, we are sincerely trying to know our religion in good faith. Anyone can be sometimes skewed and subjective when it comes important matters such as faith. This is human nature.
Anybody who seeks the truth knows not to be skewed and subjective. That's just a normal part of a normal education that teaches one how to reason. It's commonly understood.
-
Isn't that what the translators did too? What you really mean by "right translation" is a translation that makes you feel good.
They did do that but fell short on deifferent occasions. What I mean by right translation is the correct translation. Now, do not put words into my mouth, OK?
Well, part of guidance is whther the quran tells us the earth is egg shaped or flat.
I proved that that verse means the earth is expanding. I refuted all your other points except probably the sun orbit galaxy (You have not really brought an argument). I'';; respond tomorrow because I am about to break my fasting.
So what? Same thing as English. you use context to figure it out.
True.
Well, not for the most part. Clearly a skew falls on the problematic verses.
And on the "non problematic" too.
Anybody who seeks the truth knows not to be skewed and subjective. That's just a normal part of a normal education that teaches one how to reason. It's commonly understood.
Agree but I still think that everyone of us has an element of subjectivity in him.
-
They did do that but fell short on deifferent occasions.
Who says? You say. So what are your credentials?
What I mean by right translation is the correct translation.
See above.
Now, do not put words into my mouth, OK?I proved that that verse means the earth is expanding.
Actually, you did nothing of the sort. I just ewent along with it because I don't think there is much difference between spread out or expanded given the context. But if we gather all of the verse together that reference this, i can assure you that most of the will say spread out and not expanded.
I refuted all your other points
What?? Since when? Do you even read my answers?
except probably the sun orbit galaxy (You have not really brought an argument). I'';; respond tomorrow because I am about to break my fasting.True.And on the "non problematic" too.Agree but I still think that everyone of us has an element of subjectivity in him.
Subjectivity is the antithesis of truth.
-
Who says? You say. So what are your credentials?
Quran, language and common sense.
See above.
See above.
Actually, you did nothing of the sort. I just ewent along with it because I don't think there is much difference between spread out or expanded given the context. But if we gather all of the verse together that reference this, i can assure you that most of the will say spread out and not expanded.
I proved that the verse means expanding given the context of the verse. You did nothing to prove otherwise. Your point is refuted, get over it.
What?? Since when? Do you even read my answers?
I refuted your heaven thread, the who is talking here thread, meteorites thread and this thread, and I am going to refute your sun and galaxy thread. You, on the other hand, had nothing to bring up to me.
Subjectivity is the antithesis of truth.
This applies to you too.
-
Quran, language and common sense.See above.I proved that the verse means expanding given the context of the verse. You did nothing to prove otherwise. Your point is refuted, get over it.
;D ;D OK, so here's the lesson I've learned. Don't even give these people an inch just to advance the conversation because they'll take it and try to use it as some sort of bizarre victory because they are so desperate for one. So now, I'm going to go back and argue for the translation of spread out, and make it far more likely than "expanded" Way to go genius. Let's start by examining as many different translators as we can. Sounds like a normal, standard, logical idea.
079030
079030 Khan And after that He spread the earth;
079030 Maulana And the earth, He cast it after that.
079030 Pickthal And after that He spread the earth,
079030 Rashad He made the earth egg-shaped.
079030 Sarwar After this, He spread out the earth,
079030 Shakir And the earth, He expanded it after that.
079030 Sherali And the earth, along with it, HE has spread forth.
079030 Yusufali And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
079030 Asad And after that, the earth wide has He spread its expanse,
079030 Dr. Munir Munshey And after that, He spread out the earth
079030 Sher Ali And the earth, along with it, HE has spread forth.
079030 Sale After this, He stretched out the earth,
079030 Palmer And the earth after that He did stretch out.
079030 Arberry And the earth-after that He spread it out,
That should be enough. Looks like the winners here were spread and stretched, with spread clearly being the big winner. But let's look at the Arabic.
Waalarda baAAda thalika dahaha
So the word in question here is dahaha (ا
Curiously, when we look this word up in an Arabic dictionary, we get the following
"--spread out , level off , level"
http//dictionary.sakhr.com/idrisidic_2MM.asp?Lang=E-A&Sub=%cf%f3%cd%f3%c7%e5%f3%c7You probably should have left well enough alone. Now go away boy, ya' bother me. ;D ;D
I refuted your heaven thread, the who is talking here thread, meteorites thread and this thread, and I am going to refute your sun and galaxy thread. You, on the other hand, had nothing to bring up to me.This applies to you too.
Bull. I haven't even gotten to those yet. Last I checked, you were getting spanked, so quit with the false bravado. It doesn't work. I suppose it's time for your daily spanking ;D ;D So if you have posted new answers in those threads, you can bet I'll have something to say about it. Guaranteed.
-
OK, so here's the lesson I've learned. Don't even give these people an inch just to advance the conversation because they'll take it and try to use it as some sort of bizarre victory because they are so desperate for one. So now, I'm going to go back and argue for the translation of spread out, and make it far more likely than "expanded" Way to go genius. Let's start by examining as many different translators as we can. Sounds like a normal, standard, logical idea.
079030
079030 Khan And after that He spread the earth;
079030 Maulana And the earth, He cast it after that.
079030 Pickthal And after that He spread the earth,
079030 Rashad He made the earth egg-shaped.
079030 Sarwar After this, He spread out the earth,
079030 Shakir And the earth, He expanded it after that.
079030 Sherali And the earth, along with it, HE has spread forth.
079030 Yusufali And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
079030 Asad And after that, the earth wide has He spread its expanse,
079030 Dr. Munir Munshey And after that, He spread out the earth
079030 Sher Ali And the earth, along with it, HE has spread forth.
079030 Sale After this, He stretched out the earth,
079030 Palmer And the earth after that He did stretch out.
079030 Arberry And the earth-after that He spread it out,
That should be enough. Looks like the winners here were spread and stretched, with spread clearly being the big winner. But let's look at the Arabic.
Bull. They prove nothing to me. I already told you errors exist in tranlsations. You do not get it.
That should be enough. Looks like the winners here were spread and stretched, with spread clearly being the big winner. But let's look at the Arabic.
Waalarda baAAda thalika dahaha
So the word in question here is dahaha (ا
Curiously, when we look this word up in an Arabic dictionary, we get the following
"--spread out , level off , level"
http//dictionary.sakhr.com/idrisidic_2MM.asp?Lang=E-A&Sub=%cf%f3%cd%f3%c7%e5%f3%c7You probably should have left well enough alone. Now go away boy, ya' bother me.
That dictionary is just basic and uses conventional Arabic.
You probably should have left well enough alone. Now go away boy, ya' bother me.
It seems you are getting nervous.
Last I checked, you were getting spanked,
Crap, you did not reply to my posts and deviated from the topic.
so quit with the false bravado.
Look at the mirror.
I suppose it's time for your daily spanking
What an arrogance! I won't reply back the same.
So if you have posted new answers in those threads, you can bet I'll have something to say about it. Guaranteed.
And if you posted new replies in those threads, you can bet I'll have something to say about it. Guaranteed.
-
Bull. They prove nothing to me. I already told you errors exist in translations. You do not get it.That dictionary is just basic and uses conventional Arabic.
Well ok then, now even the dictionary is wrong. The translators are wrong, the tafsir is wrong and the dictionary is wrong. ;D Can't use the hadiths for further clarification because they're wrong too. Gee, it looks like the only person that is right is you. ;D Must be nice ;D To be honest with you, I'm not interested in discussing things with you if you are only going to invent whatever is convenient for your POV in the discussion. there has to be an anchor point somewhere or the conversation will be meaningless.
-
Actually, you did nothing of the sort. I just ewent along with it because I don't think there is much difference between spread out or expanded given the context. But if we gather all of the verse together that reference this, i can assure you that most of the will say spread out and not expanded.
expanded or spread out so what is the problem
Six Mysterious Days of Power
Say 'What, do you disbelieve in Him who created the earth in two days, and do you set up compeers to Him? That is the Lord of all Being. And He set therein firm mountains over it, and He blessed it, and He ordained therein its diverse sustenance in four days, equal to those who ask. Then He lifted Himself to heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly, or unwillingly!" They said, "We come willingly." So He determined them as seven heavens in two days, and revealed its commandment in every heaven.' And We adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and to preserve; that is the ordaining of the All-mighty, the All-knowing -
Well ok then, now even the dictionary is wrong. The translators are wrong, the tafsir is wrong and the dictionary is wrong. Can't use the hadiths for further clarification because they're wrong too. Gee, it looks like the only person that is right is you. Must be nice To be honest with you, I'm not interested in discussing things with you if you are only going to invent whatever is convenient for your POV in the discussion. there has to be an anchor point somewhere or the conversation will be meaningless.
That dictionary came with only one Arabic meaning for "".
can also mean
Which means to expand
http//dictionary.sakhr.com/idrisidic_2MM.asp?Lang=E-A&sub= -
Actually, you did nothing of the sort. I just ewent along with it because I don't think there is much difference between spread out or expanded given the context. But if we gather all of the verse together that reference this, i can assure you that most of the will say spread out and not expanded.
expanded or spread out so what is the problem
I agree. That's what I said earlier, but this other guy insists on harping on it, so I stopped what I was doing and unloaded on him. I was willing to just let it go to advance the conversation, but he's looking to be right about something, anything, at this point. Go back and read prior posts..
Six Mysterious Days of Power
Say 'What, do you disbelieve in Him who created the earth in two days, and do you set up compeers to Him? That is the Lord of all Being. And He set therein firm mountains over it, and He blessed it, and He ordained therein its diverse sustenance in four days, equal to those who ask. Then He lifted Himself to heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly, or unwillingly!" They said, "We come willingly." So He determined them as seven heavens in two days, and revealed its commandment in every heaven.' And We adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and to preserve; that is the ordaining of the All-mighty, the All-knowingHave you seen my thread asking where or what the lower heaven is?
-
You're link does not work, and I want to see exactly what you are talking about.
Sorry for that;
has more than one meaning such as
(The only word provided in your link)
oror
(Derived from the above word)
etc...The word
means to expand
http//dictionary.sakhr.com/idrisidic_2MM.asp?Lang=E-A&Sub=%c7%e3%ca%cf -
Have you seen my thread asking where or what the lower heaven is?
We already settled this.
-
Sorry for that;
has more than one meaning such as
(The only word provided in your link)
oror
(Derived from the above word)
etc...The word
means to expand
http//dictionary.sakhr.com/idrisidic_2MM.asp?Lang=E-A&Sub=%c7%e3%ca%cfWhy are you using a different word? this is the precise word that is used
So what little magic act are you trying to pull off here? Now, the even funnier part, is that in the word you linked, the first two definitions are stretch out and spread out. Why are you helping my argument? ;D How odd.
-
Why are you using a different word? this is the precise word that is used
So what little magic act are you trying to pull off here?
also means . It's the same exact word.
Now, the even funnier part, is that in the word you linked, the first two definitions are stretch out and spread out. Why are you helping my argument? ;D How odd.
I already said it can have more than one meaning. The third definition is "expand". Case closed.
-
I didn't post that to you. You've got the straws going in that one. Again, just making the claim doesn't work, so don't even bother.
I substantiated my claims, you ignored them. That's fine by me.
-
I substantiated my claims, you ignored them. That's fine by me.
No, i answered them. And then, you try to swapo out one word with another and you got caught. And then, even the word that you tried to use as a replacement ended up matching my point better than yours. So what again have you answered? Please remind me. Last I checked, everybody is point at "spread ot" except for you, and even you accidently poinrted to "spread out". It doesn't get much clearer than that.
-
also means . It's the same exact word.
Same exact word or a different word with the same meaning? Why bother to swap the words out? There is absolutely no good reason to do that except for you trying to pull a fast one. My, how honorable.
I already said it can have more than one meaning. The third definition is "expand". Case closed.
And the first and second said stretched out and spread out. So you botched that one. After all the examination, clearly spread out is the most likely interpretation. But, like someone else said, what''s the big difference anyway? I was willing to let it go, but you decided to force me to address it. Are you happy you did that now?