Sun orbits the galaxy?
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Not one single one of those told us why we should think it means the sun orbiting the galaxy, and that was the question I had for you. But you're not even going to attempt it because you know there really isn't any good reason at all to think the Quran was talking about an orbit around the sun. At least I can give you reasons for my interpretation. You can't give me reasons for yours. Heh, at some point, the reader has to decide what is most likely. So I give my reasons, and you give yours. But we both know why you refuse to do this. Obviously, I have put you into stonewall mode, which is usually near when the conversation ends.
Is it me in "stonewall mode," or you? I have told you many times over, I did not claim it is talking about the galaxy. When you claim there is a discrepancy, the burden of proof is on you, which includes showing objective reasons why. Not interpretations. You are welcome to your own interpretation, but please, for future reference, note that your interpretation does not = objective contradiction.
Indeed one of us is in stonewall mode, and indeed it is near the end of the conversation.
Peace.
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This is fact that you will have to accept.
Why? You can't tell me why. I just simply MUST accept it. This is the bullheadedness of a lot of Muslims that I've discussed things with. When things get tough, they get really angry, stubborn and start making absolute proclamations and try and stamp out the conversation as quickly as possible. Do you call that being a truthseeker? I don't. Part of seeking the truth is testing and analyzing. But when I go far enough, out comes the anger and the window gets slammed shut.
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Why? You can't tell me why. I just simply MUST accept it. This is the bullheadedness of a lot of Muslims that I've discussed things with. When things get tough, they get really angry, stubborn and start making absolute proclamations and try and stamp out the conversation as quickly as possible. Do you call that being a truthseeker? I don't. Part of seeking the truth is testing and analyzing.
Do you have any sense of logic? I said it is fact that you are imposing your own interpretation on it and calling it a discrepancy.
Brother, why are you talking to me about truthseeking? You have come here, with 159 posts, all trying to disprove the quran, showing pure hate in the meanwhile. Your mind is already made up. Do not lecture me on your Muslim friends or if I am truthseeking or not, please. Thank you.
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Is it me in "stonewall mode," or you? I have told you many times over, I did not claim it is talking about the galaxy.
There are only one of two options, either it is circling the earth or it's circling the galaxy or some place in outer space. It's not circling another dimension, so you have to pick one. Is it the earth, or an outer space galaxy? Which one and why? And I KNOW you're going to side step this.
When you claim there is a discrepancy, the burden of proof is on you, which includes showing objective reasons why. Not interpretations. You are welcome to your own interpretation, but please, for future reference, note that your interpretation does not = objective contradiction.
Actually, you have that wrong, and i thank you because you have just displayed the common logical fallacy and fault that most Muslims use. You see, you would be right that I would have to prove the discrepancy, IF the Quran is first by priori assumed to be true. However, that priori is faulty and goes against reasonable logic. The truth of the matter is that nothing is proved. Therefore, there is no burden of proof on either side, and each side must make it's case to make it's side the likely choice. See? See the backwards system of priori logic used?
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Not one single one of those told us why we should think it means the sun orbiting the galaxy, and that was the question I had for you. But you're not even going to attempt it because you know there really isn't any good reason at all to think the Quran was talking about an orbit around the galaxy. At least I can give you reasons for my interpretation. You can't give me reasons for yours. Heh, at some point, the reader has to decide what is most likely. So I give my reasons, and you give yours. But we both know why you refuse to do this. Obviously, I have put you into stonewall mode, which is usually near when the conversation ends.
The word
in the verse we are discussing means galaxy.
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Do you have any sense of logic? I said it is fact that you are imposing your own interpretation on it and calling it a discrepancy.
And I make the case to make the interpretation likely. i don't just arbitrarily claim it, I show you why I claim it. But so far, you have done nothing of the sort, and it's because you have little reason for your interpretation..
Brother, why are you talking to me about truthseeking?
Because I think you're lying to yourself because it is such an emotional issue. That is a common human practice.
You have come here, with 159 posts, all trying to disprove the quran, showing pure hate in the meanwhile.
Ummmm, no. That's just part of the training. Anybody who disagrees with the Quran, thinks it's not the letter for letter dictation of God, and tries to display that, is a hateful person. That's the way you've been trained.
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There are only one of two options, either it is circling the earth or it's circling the galaxy or some place in outer space. It's not circling another dimension, so you have to pick one. Is it the earth, or an outer space galaxy? Which one and why? And I KNOW you're going to side step this.
The fact is there is no logical or objective contradiction here. It doesn't matter what I choose.
Actually, you have that wrong, and i thank you because you have just displayed the common logical fallacy and fault that most Muslims use. You see, you would be right that I would have to prove the discrepancy, IF the Quran is first by priori assumed to be true. However, that priori is faulty and goes against reasonable logic. The truth of the matter is that nothing is proved. Therefore, there is no burden of proof on either side, and each side must make it's case to make it's side the likely choice. See? See the backwards system of priori logic used?
When there is no clear, objective discrepancy in the particular verse, and you claim there is one you inevitably need to bring reasons. You did, and it showed that you imposed your own interpretation. I, on the other hand, did not claim anything; only that your so-called discrepancy requires your interpretation.
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Which verse?
2133 and 3640
The wordmeans galaxy or universe.
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And I make the case to make the interpretation likely. i don't just arbitrarily claim it, I show you why I claim it. But so far, you have done nothing of the sort, and it's because you have little reason for your interpretation..
I did not make an original claim. You did, and it was all based on twisting the verses to fit your preconceived interpretation
Because I think you're lying to yourself because it is such an emotional issue. That is a common human practice.
Ummmm, no. That's just part of the training. Anybody who disagrees with the Quran, thinks it's not the letter for letter dictation of God, and tries to display that, is a hateful person. That's the way you've been trained.
The only that seems emotional is you. You know nothing about what I believed before, how long I've followed the quran, etc. Please don't make ridiculous claims about me, ignorantly.
I have many discussions regarding the quran's divinity with openminded, objective people, including Christians and Atheists. I have no problem. You, on the other hand, come here solely to disprove the quran with your mind already made up, including mocking, unnecessary statements such has "'allah' clearly had a 7th century view of the universe," and many other unnecessary, insulting statements.
Please, stop preaching to me about "what I've been trained" or me "lying to myself."
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2133 and 3640
The wordmeans galaxy or universe.
I cannot find that word in 2133
nor in 3640
If I'm blind, then highlight that word in the Arabic above.
Now, I looked up the word you posted in the dictionary, and it says orb, orbit, tropic. So what exactly are you trying to pull here?
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I cannot find that word in 2133
nor in 3640
If I'm blind, then highlight that word in the Arabic above.
Now, I looked up the word you posted in the dictionary, and it says orb, orbit, tropic. So what exactly are you trying to pull here?
It means the the sky/space/universe.
http//lexicons.ajeeb.com/openme.asp?fileurl=/html/2055867.html
It's an Arabic dictionary
, , , . . . , , , , . . ,It means sky/space/universe.
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That link goes to the same exact dictionary I've been using. The one you said isn't good enough. ;D
Now what am I supposed to do with that link when the entire thing is in Arabic? I forget whether this is common technique number 5 or 7 on the list. It's called "hiding behind the Arabic". Knowing the other person can't read Arabic, one posts all Arabic and then declares the matter settled. That's pretty shameful.
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That link goes to the same exact dictionary I've been using. The one you said isn't good enough.
It goes to the same site, not the same dictionary.
Now what am I supposed to do with that link when the entire thing is in Arabic? I forget whether this is common technique number 5 or 7 on the list. It's called "hiding behind the Arabic". Knowing the other person can't read Arabic, one posts all Arabic and then declares the matter settled. That's pretty shameful.
I highlighted to you the word I am talking about. I am not hiding behind Arabic, the Quran is the epitome of Arabic language and so it's common sense that I get to large dictionaries to find what a certain word means. You can check the meaning of that word in Arabic/English dictionaries.
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It goes to the same site, not the same dictionary.I highlighted to you the word I am talking about. I am not hiding behind Arabic, the Quran is the epitome of Arabic language and so it's common sense that I get to large dictionaries to find what a certain word means. You can check the meaning of that word in Arabic/English dictionaries.
How am I supposed to read the definition you provided? You know full well that this was not intended for me to read.
Now, I told you that I cannot find that word you are referencing in the verse. And I asked you to quote the verse in Arabic, as i have done, as bold the word you are talking about. It doesn't look like it's there. AND, the word YOU gave, which doesn't appear to be in the verse, is translated to orb and orbit. If you think it's otherwise, then you have to show me in some way that I can understand, rather than just handing me a page of Arabic. You could take the story of Mary Poppins in Arabic and represent it as the Quran saying what you want it to, and how would I know any better? Pardon me while I don't particularly trust you. You've already tried to swap words out.
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I have to leave now. Will respond tomorrow.
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Peace Arnold,
The certainty you display is congruent with the deficit in your knowledge. Don't you think that it's about time to fill the gap?
www.studyquran.co.uk is filled with information on steps to take. You should take a look.
Nadeem
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Peace Arnold,
The certainty you display is congruent with the deficit in your knowledge.
Here...I'll make a claim to, just like you. Here goes. Your statement shows a deficiency of knowledge. There. Tah dah !!! See? I can do that to. So where are we at? Nowhere. So why did you bother to type? I can invent opinions too. See how meaningless that is? Where's the point? See what I mean? And the funniest part, is the you preclude this with "Peace Arnold". ;D
Don't you think that it's about time to fill the gap?
Don't you think it's about time to see the brainwashing that has been given to you?
Oh, OK
Of course not, because, naturally, you are right, and I am wrong. Huh huh huh (fake relaxed laughter). Cracks me up.
www.studyquran.co.uk is filled with information on steps to take. You should take a look.
Nadeem
Have you ever considered the possibility that these steps were created for you and others so that you may look upon these scriptures as others would like you to rather than as they really are? Oh no. No no no. Of course not
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Peace Arnold,
Your apparent lack of knowledge in Arabic is not due to my opinion affirming such. You've admitted yourself that you don't know Arabic. I'm just wondering how you can be so sure of yourself even though you have nothing solid to lean on.
Don't you think it's about time to see the brainwashing that has been given to you?
There's little denial Arnold, I've long known that I'm brainwashed and impressionable. So are we all, to some degree.
Have you ever considered the possibility that these steps were created for you and others so that you may look upon these scriptures as others would like you to rather than as they really are? Oh no. No no no. Of course not
If "looking upon these scriptures as others" is carefully "considering all their implications and aspects, drawing on all available sources, keeping away desires and relying on facts, and learning as much as possible", which is what studyquran invites to, then what's wrong with that?
Quit the aggressive, bro, you're only burning yourself.
Nadeem
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Peace Arnold,
Your apparent lack of knowledge in Arabic is not due to my opinion affirming such. You've admitted yourself that you don't know Arabic. I'm just wondering how you can be so sure of yourself even though you have nothing solid to lean on.
Because I believe that the translations ARE basically sufficient if you look at enough translators to give you a decent consensus. And I believe that this hiding behind the Arabic is a created hype and overly used back door escape hatch for when things get a little tough to explain. Look, if someone can say that we don't know the meaning of it unless we know Arabic, when it happens to be convenient for their argument at that particular time, then why don't they say that all of the time in all situations of the Quran? Right? Right? We simply can't know anything about the Quran unless we know Arabic, right? So then what are all of these non Arabic speaking Muslims believing in? This "Arabic only" BS is a scam.
There's little denial Arnold, I've long know that I'm brainwashed and impressionable. So are we all, to some degree.
If "looking upon these scriptures as others" is carefully "considering all their implications and aspects, drawing on all available sources, keeping away desires and relying on facts, and learning as much as possible", which is what studyquran invites to, then what's wrong with that?Because I've already done things like that. Why do you think I know my way around the Quran better than a lot of others here? Next question?
Quit the aggressive, bro, you're only burning yourself.
Nadeem
And I said before, this shows that people are more interested in their personal feelings rather than the truth. BTW, it's funny how the bulk of insults has actually flown on me, rather than me dishing them out, but you might be hypnotized to not see that. You seem to only read my responses, rather than the posts that cause them. That's OK. That's to be expected from the biased mind. It's like the hypnotist the can make you see things that AREN'T there, and make you not see things that ARE there.