Who's talking here?
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Why don't you just link it as I asked before?
Salaam
Here's the link
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14531.msg132914#msg132914
And I hope you listen to this advice There are many things in the qur'aan that we cannot claim to know or grasp, such as "jinns" or even heavens and earth, simply because in real life these things are not yet finally determined, so you cannot argue against the qur'aan based on these understandings. Try to be humble and less aggressive if you really want to exchange knowledge. Otherwise, continue the antagonism and shortly you will not find anyone to debate with you. You are not the only one on this forum who does not believe that the qur'aan is not the word of God, but the others would tone down the "is not" to a "may not be", and this is the language of the intellectuals. Don't revert to the language of the ignorant.
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Salaam
Here's the link
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14531.msg132914#msg132914
And I hope you listen to this advice
Why would you hope that? Because it would make you feel better? Make you feel more confident of your treasured ideas?
There are many things in the qur'aan that we cannot claim to know or grasp, such as "jinns" or even heavens and earth, simply because in real life these things are not yet finally determined, so you cannot argue against the qur'aan based on these understandings. Try to be humble and less aggressive if you really want to exchange knowledge. Otherwise, continue the antagonism and shortly you will not find anyone to debate with you. You are not the only one on this forum who does not believe that the qur'aan is not the word of God, but the others would tone down the "is not" to a "may not be", and this is the language of the intellectuals. Don't revert to the language of the ignorant.
What this tells me, is that you are more interested in your personal feelings than the truth. Otherwise, this would be irrelevant. Have you seen how many people try to insult me, and laugh at me? Go look. But if you'll notice, it makes absolutely no difference to me. The point is the point is the point is the point. I do not let personal, emotional rants distract me because they cloud thought. Are you being clouded?
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Salaam
Here's the link
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14531.msg132914#msg132914
This doesn't answer the point as far as I could tell.It just explains we as majestic plural. I already knew that, but in the case of the verse I'm talking about in this thread, it is not majestic plural. Just to be perfectly clear, I am isolating this particular verse because I don't think it fits the majestic plural pattern like the other ones might. So do you see what I am saying now? If that thread you linked addressed the exact verse I'm talking about, then please point it out to me as I didn't see it. Thank you.
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This doesn't answer the point as far as I could tell.It just explains we as majestic plural. I already knew that, but in the case of the verse I'm talking about in this thread, it is not majestic plural. Just to be perfectly clear, I am isolating this particular verse because I don't think it fits the majestic plural pattern like the other ones might. So do you see what I am saying now? If that thread you linked addressed the exact verse I'm talking about, then please point it out to me as I didn't see it. Thank you.
I already addressed this verse to you. You either deliberately ignore it or do not want to get it.
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I was answering about the link provided, not answering you. And writing creative but implausible ideas is not my idea of addressing something.
You should not continue arguing when your argument has already been addressed. You seem to argue for the sake of it. I answered your argument and you have not replied back.
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Pretty funny that on a thread about "who's talking here", you don't know who I'm talking to. How ironic. ;D ;D
See above.
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Why would you hope that? Because it would make you feel better? Make you feel more confident of your treasured ideas?
What this tells me, is that you are more interested in your personal feelings than the truth. Otherwise, this would be irrelevant. Have you seen how many people try to insult me, and laugh at me? Go look. But if you'll notice, it makes absolutely no difference to me. The point is the point is the point is the point. I do not let personal, emotional rants distract me because they cloud thought. Are you being clouded?
Just look at your reply to me as an example of your unprovoked foul language and don't wonder that people seem harsh to you. People here are very tolerent and generally polite. They do not "insult". They "describe". If your description fits an insult, change your way to change how you may be described.
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Well, just for kicks, can you repeat it in case I missed it? Thanks.
It's in page 2.
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Just look at your reply to me as an example of your unprovoked foul language
Foul language? Can you show me one foul word I've said to you? i don't understand what you are talking about.
and don't wonder that people seem harsh to you.
I don't. I only wonder how they seem to be completely unconscious of their harshness.
People here are very tolerent and generally polite. They do not "insult". They "describe". If your description fits an insult, change your way to change how you may be described.
Well you should read more of the posts directed to me. What has actually happened here, and the mods would probably concur if they studied it, is that at first, from the very beginning, I posted very direct challenges to the authenticity of the Quran by showing areas where I believe that it clearly demonstrates an errant, typical, 7th century point if view.
Apparently, if one directly challenges the Quran with difficult questions, and doesn't just accept any old excuse that someone can try, then apparently, that's foul language. That's probably why you guys became immediately hostile in your replies, because to you, challenges to the Quran are like foul language. Anyway, if we correctly consider direct, and difficult questions to NOT be foul language, then clearly you people started the hostilities, not me. Go back and read it. You got angry first (not you specifically), and started with the hostile tone, not me. That's actually the truth.
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Which one? Can't you just copy and paste it? Thanks.
I say it's irrelevant, if it's true in the first place, because God swears by many things just once in the Quran.
It does not matter whether who says who. The fact is, God is refered in the Quran (Which was inspired by Him) as the "Lord of..." many times. Refer to 754, God talks about Himself in that verse and numerous others.
You are now deviating from the topic. I gave you a verse where God refers to Himself as the "Lord of the worlds". In Arabic language, "he" does not always refer to specific gender.
These were my replies to you.
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I say it's irrelevant, if it's true in the first place, because God swears by many things just once in the Quran.
Where does he swear by himself? Look, maybe this will get the point across. Let's supposed I am the shift manager. And i go to my employees and say "I swear by the shift manager that xyz...." Who says that? Nobody. It's not a matter of God can say anything, it's a matter of the language being so awkward, that we have to assume it means something far less awkward. Can you see that? Maybe not.
It does not matter whether who says who. The fact is, God is referred in the Quran (Which was inspired by Him) as the "Lord of..." many times. Refer to 754, God talks about Himself in that verse and numerous others.
He's not swearing by his title there, he's saying that he is the Lord. Don't you understand the difference, and see the oddity that is being pointed out? Now maybe there is a good explanation, but you have to understand the oddity before you can explain it, and it doesn't appaer as though you fully understand the oddity yet.
You are now deviating from the topic. I gave you a verse where God refers to Himself as the "Lord of the worlds".
But he doesn't swear by his title, as that would be completely awkward. Can't you see that?.