Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. Community Needs
  3. Islamic Calendar & Ramadhan.
  4. Ramadan

Ramadan

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Islamic Calendar & Ramadhan.
73 Posts 21 Posters 2.5k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • E Offline
    E Offline
    Elke
    wrote on last edited by
    #26

    Peace mz

    i will i think bring it all together some time in the near future.

    bravo yay

    lk

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • I Offline
      I Offline
      ILisa
      wrote on last edited by
      #27

      Greetings mz,

      Yes, I second lk's bravo and yay.....

      Thank you for taking the time to write up what you did above. I can still see the validity in your way of understanding it all.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • A Offline
        A Offline
        ayman
        wrote on last edited by
        #28

        Peace Layth, everyone,

        The event that comes to mind could be a lunar eclipse which would turn the full moon blood red in color for a few minutes. This event would occur infrequently at one given point (say Jerusalem). The blood red color could be the scorchting that the word describes.

        <--------- See my avatar. This is the blood red color of the full moon right after the summer solstice, which is also during the hottest time of the year (red+hot=scorching). Everyone around the world can see this with their own eyes.

        I hope this helps.

        Peace,

        Ayman

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • I Offline
          I Offline
          ILisa
          wrote on last edited by
          #29

          Greetings Dr. Ayman,

          <--------- See my avatar. This is the blood red color of the full moon right after the summer solstice, which is also during the hottest time of the year (red+hot=scorching). Everyone around the world can see this with their own eyes.

          Yes, I did see this before and realized what it is. That is what is so convincing. This is a very, very good point. In fact, this year during the time of the 'scorching heat', I thought about fasting, but didn't -- for whatever reason. Despite this, I admit that I do have it in my mind to fast the next upcoming one to see how I fare -- how it feels and what benefit I reap from it. I'm planning to do this not only because your thesis is so sound, but I did some research and there is a long history of other groups of people recognizing the significance of the full moon closest to the summer solstice --that it is a time to receive guidance and spiritual insight, so they fast or perform specific rituals. This point in particular adds significant weight to the validity of your understanding as far as I'm concerned.

          Additionally, as I have mentioned in another posting here, I feel that to fast a 'ramadan' at different times every year -- out of sync with the earth and its seasons, is very disorienting. I did it for 18 years and it just never felt 'right', always a bit out of balance. In general, I found it to be very 'off-putting'.

          I have still not come to a conclusion which understanding is best. I guess that what I'm hoping for in my heart, is that when I abstain from food and drink next year at the time of the 'scorching heat' that I will gain particular guidance or insight that will help improve my spiritual 'lackings'. That, certainly, would be a most satisfying outcome to this for me on a personal level. Then I will feel that I 'know' and truly understand what it means to 'witness shahr ramadan' and what Sawm means. Until then, I guess I'm still hanging.....

          But thank you for your post, and giving me the opportunity to think about this yet again.

          handshake

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • M Offline
            M Offline
            Munshi
            wrote on last edited by
            #30

            i still could not figure out why every one of us has to fast/abstain.Where in the quran can we find this commandment?????????

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • I Offline
              I Offline
              ILisa
              wrote on last edited by
              #31

              i still could not figure out why every one of us has to fast/abstain.Where in the quran can we find this commandment?????????

              As I understand it is being taken from Surah al Baqarah, from that ayat around and including ayah 185 -- but I wonder why there is only reference in this passage to being with your 'wives' and not 'spouses' if the abstention applies to both genders.

              So I see your point.

              Anyone got the answer??

              Dr. Ayman?

              Or perhaps mz's thesis fits this best?

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • S Offline
                S Offline
                SwedenMajidah
                wrote on last edited by
                #32

                Peace,

                Yes, Lisa now when you says it I also wonder why not mention spouses instead of "wives"?

                I hope though that it isn't a male thing, like it's the male who approach his wife and not the opposite, hmm.

                Peace
                Maria

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • S Offline
                  S Offline
                  Samia
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #33

                  As I understand it is being taken from Surah al Baqarah, from that ayat around and including ayah 185 -- but I wonder why there is only reference in this passage to being with your 'wives' and not 'spouses' if the abstention applies to both genders.

                  So I see your point.

                  Anyone got the answer??

                  Dr. Ayman?

                  Or perhaps mz's thesis fits this best?

                  Peace,

                  Yes, Lisa now when you says it I also wonder why not mention spouses instead of "wives"?

                  I hope though that it isn't a male thing, like it's the male who approach his wife and not the opposite, hmm.

                  Peace
                  Maria

                  There are two facts that we agree on

                  1- The quraan addresses both genders.
                  2- The address to both genders together takes the masculine form, which we call "generic masculine" i.e it contains the female.

                  When we have such an address with generic masculine, the feminine it entails is also a "generic feminine", i.e it contains the male. Example 443; 56. This is what I call specific sociolinguistics of the quraan.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    mz
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #34

                    443 and 56 specifically do refer to Nissa women but in 2187 ?not associate it/her/them (Hunna)? is where the confusion is arising.

                    May be the following Ayah may help our understandings.

                    002.223
                    YUSUFALI Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.

                    God Bless.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • S Offline
                      S Offline
                      Samia
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #35

                      443 and 56 specifically do refer to Nissa women but in 2187 ?not associate it/her/them (Hunna)? is where the confusion is arising.

                      I am not sure I understand you well. "Hunna" refers to "nisaa'ikum". It has to be "hunna". This does not affect the fact that it contains "men".

                      4127
                      1
                      2
                      3

                      The 1,2,3 are the sub categories of "alnisaa'" and the "hunna" pronoun (both in bold)

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        mz
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #36

                        I am not sure I understand you well. "Hunna" refers to "nisaa'ikum". It has to be "hunna". This does not affect the fact that it contains "men".

                        4127
                        1
                        2
                        3

                        The 1,2,3 are the sub categories of "alnisaa'" and the "hunna" pronoun (both in bold)

                        Sorry i meant to say it is very clear in this ayah - that it is referring to Nissa but in 2187 its not so clear.

                        And i thought 2223 might be a clarifier as you can't have opposing commands.

                        God Bless.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • S Offline
                          S Offline
                          Samia
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #37

                          Sorry i meant to say it is very clear in this ayah - that it is referring to Nissa but in 2187 its not so clear.

                          And i thought 2223 might be a clarifier as you can't have opposing commands.

                          God Bless.

                          Am I confused again? What is "it" in (but in 2187 it's not so clear)?

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • I Offline
                            I Offline
                            ILisa
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #38

                            Greetings all.....

                            I'm okay with the 'hunna'...but now that I've looked at the Arabic text, why use 'women' instead of 'wives' ???
                            (I hadn't looked before my previous post, sorry if I've confused anyone.)

                            And what of 'r-fa-thu'?

                            **(From PRL Ra-Fa-Tha = sexual conduct, lie with for sexual relationship, behave obscenity, immodest speech, sexuality, lewdness.

                            rafath n.m. 2187, 2197, LL, V3, p 284, 285)

                            ??

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • I Offline
                              I Offline
                              ILisa
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #39

                              Furthermore......

                              Think back to mz's post....and wonder along with me about the root for 'women' being the same as the root for 'forgetting' or 'to dismiss from the mind'..... hmm

                              and...that 'r-fa'-thu' can mean 'immodest speech'..... hmm

                              and...that l-b-s- can mean 'to wear/cover/envelope/concel/conform/cloak/disguise/obscure/confound/mystify/render a thing confused to another' and 'to occupy himself within a thing/become involved with or entangled/ to mix/mingle', etc. hmm

                              Now there's food for thought! eat

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • E Offline
                                E Offline
                                Elke
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #40

                                peace ILisa

                                and the root for man rjl - to be on foot, standing up on your own - what many women do do btw

                                its offtopic here but discussions have taken place

                                http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12037.0

                                lk

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • I Offline
                                  I Offline
                                  ILisa
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #41

                                  Greetings lk,

                                  Interesting....

                                  Also, I was just looking, and 1926 came to my attention. Here, it is clearly stated in Arabic that 'S-w-m' is to abstain from speaking. No interpolations, no assumptions, no reading between the lines.

                                  Verily I have vowed to the Most Gracious abstinance I am not speaking 'in-see-yann' -- Samia, please help me out....can this be seen also as a form four active participle of the root 'n-s-w' or 'n-s-y'?? If so, then we can tie this in to my message above....

                                  in that case the translation might be something like

                                  Verily, I have vowed to the Most Gracious abstinance I am not speaking in the way of forgetting (as an active participle -- can that be?)

                                  Please, Arabic grammarians help me out!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • S Offline
                                    S Offline
                                    Samia
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #42

                                    Salaam all

                                    I will address your posts by trying to explain the root for these problematic words

                                    Women In the quraan, two words were used for women
                                    1- nisaa' from the root nuun seen hamza, which means the late, the left behind. Also used in the prohibited usuary "rib al-nasee'a", where the first agreement is changed when the one in debt asks for more time (delay of payment).

                                    2- nuswa from the root nuun, seen wau to forget the forgotten.
                                    Some linguists refer the word "insaan and insiyyun " to this root; but the majority refer it to the root alif nuun seen, the opposite of wild.

                                    The two meanings (tamed and forgotten) might be related somehow being quiet (tamed/ not wild) will lead to being forgotten (my understnding)..

                                    Seen wau meem stagnation, opposite of movement; and used for abstaining from eating and drinking (movement of the digestive system), talking (movement of the buccal apparatus) and walking (movement of motor muscles). The object of abstaining, therefore, has to be mentioned (absatining from talikg, eating, moving).

                                    References http//www.baheth.info/all.jsp?tm=

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • I Offline
                                      I Offline
                                      ILisa
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #43

                                      Greetings Samia,

                                      Wow! Thank you......even more interesting tidbits!!

                                      So now..........where does that get us? hmm

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • A Offline
                                        A Offline
                                        ayman
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #44

                                        Peace ILisa,

                                        Yes, I did see this before and realized what it is. That is what is so convincing. This is a very, very good point. In fact, this year during the time of the 'scorching heat', I thought about fasting, but didn't -- for whatever reason. Despite this, I admit that I do have it in my mind to fast the next upcoming one to see how I fare -- how it feels and what benefit I reap from it. I'm planning to do this not only because your thesis is so sound, but I did some research and there is a long history of other groups of people recognizing the significance of the full moon closest to the summer solstice --that it is a time to receive guidance and spiritual insight, so they fast or perform specific rituals. This point in particular adds significant weight to the validity of your understanding as far as I'm concerned.

                                        Indeed, this moon is very dramatic and noteiceable. It is natural that people all over used it as a marker because everyone can easily witness it and you don't need some self-proclaimed religious authority to tell you "now is the right time". The picture in my avatar is from the first time I observed it and abstained accordingly. It is funny because someone was mentioning that "Ramadan is here a couple of weeks ago" in front of my daughter and her natural reaction was that she got very excited and said "can we go see the red moon?" Of course, the person was talking about the sectarian meaningless Ramadan and not the meaningful "shahr ramadan". This dramatic sighting of the red moon is a marker even for young children. I bet you that no Sunni adults (let alone kids) ever say "let's go witness "shahr ramadan"".

                                        Additionally, as I have mentioned in another posting here, I feel that to fast a 'ramadan' at different times every year -- out of sync with the earth and its seasons, is very disorienting. I did it for 18 years and it just never felt 'right', always a bit out of balance. In general, I found it to be very 'off-putting'.
                                        I have still not come to a conclusion which understanding is best. I guess that what I'm hoping for in my heart, is that when I abstain from food and drink next year at the time of the 'scorching heat' that I will gain particular guidance or insight that will help improve my spiritual 'lackings'. That, certainly, would be a most satisfying outcome to this for me on a personal level. Then I will feel that I 'know' and truly understand what it means to 'witness shahr ramadan' and what Sawm means. Until then, I guess I'm still hanging.....
                                        But thank you for your post, and giving me the opportunity to think about this yet again.
                                        handshake

                                        Personally, I find that the correct course of action (in this and all issues) is to follow the best available understanding while keeping in mind that no human understanding is absolutely perfect and so be open to better understandings as they become available.

                                        Peace,

                                        Ayman

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • A Offline
                                          A Offline
                                          afridi220
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #45

                                          EID MUBARAK T ALLhttp//

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Users