Starjade Sura 4:82 challenges the whole of Islam.
-
Hmm, has Starjade ascended to the Holy Veil of the Scary Dark Abyss Of Cut and Paste From Christian Sites?
-
Hi OPF
Starjade is not a Christian and fits neither definition of ?Christian.? As I said elsewhereMany in false religions of many and various types from those with false gods such as the Trinity have mental blinders on and can not see the truth with respect their respective religions. But first let's clarify some terms I shall be using in what to some will be a special sense or usage.
Apostate = any religious group including all denominations and/or sects of that group who worship false gods or goddesses of any type.
Christian = a term used in two very distinct and mutually exclusive ways. (1) A genuine (true) worshiper who worships the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Issac, Ishmael, Noah, Moses, etc., the creator of all there is, in strict conformity with Exodus 203, an absolute monotheist, a real follower of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ in practice and not just in name. (2) One who belongs to any of the denominations and/or sects that fell away from genuine (true) Christianity after the passing of the apostles that was foretold by 2Thessalonians 23, "let no man beguile you in any wise for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition," (American Standard Version; ASV), one who worships other god(s) not mentioned as a true god in the Bible such as the Trinity.
False religion = One who does not worship the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Issac, Ishmael, Noah, Moses, etc., the creator of all there is, but worships some other god or god(s) or idols or goddesses.
All religions believe they are correct, yet they are all different; thus, they can not all be correct - only one can be., which can be read in its entirety at,
http//religioustruths.proboards59.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=babylonthegreat&thread=1190172986
Now, carefully note the two entirely different definitions of a ?Christian.?
Definition 2 above is for what commonly passes as ?Christian? but is not as they are not genuine (true) followers of Christ, believe in a false ?three-in-one-god? ? the Trinity, and engage in worldly wars, etc. Very similar to Islam.
Definition 1 deals with the genuine (true) followers that are monotheistic and ONLY worship one god, Almighty God (YHWH) the creator of all there is, do NOT engage in worldly wars, etc.
As you should see, you were in error with respect understanding reality, the truth, per John 832, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
However, Starjade is an expert on Islam.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
-
I see. So Starjade is an infidel?
-
Hi OPF
Now what would make Starjade any more an infidel than yourself? The Inspired Word of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, the creator of all there is clearly says at John 146, ?Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.? (American Standard Version; ASV), so think about this reality per John 832, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
-
Hi OPF
Now what would make Starjade any more an infidel than yourself? The Inspired Word of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, the creator of all there is clearly says at John 146, ?Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.? (American Standard Version; ASV), so think about this reality per John 832, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
So both of us are infidels? Awesome! ;D
-
Hi OPF
Figure it out for yourself, but I will give you a hint from the Inspired Word of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, creator of all there is found at 1 Timothy 25, ?For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;? (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
-
Hi OPF
Figure it out for yourself, but I will give you a hint from the Inspired Word of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, creator of all there is found at 1 Timothy 25, ?For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;? (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
No, I want a definitive answer. Are we infidels or not? Neither accept "Jesus Christ" as God or any such derivative.
-
Hi OPF
First, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is NOT his Father, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, creator of all there is.
Second, The definitive answer rest with him whom the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, appointed the judge of mankind per John 522, ?For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son? (Authorized King James Bible; AV), and not I. Think about it.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
-
Hi OPF
First, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is NOT his Father, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, creator of all there is.
Second, The definitive answer rest with him whom the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, appointed the judge of mankind per John 522, ?For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son? (Authorized King James Bible; AV), and not I. Think about it.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
Now you got me confused
The definitive answer rests with the true God.
All judgement is committed unto the sonSo, God does not jusdge us, but his son?
Jesus is the son of God?
If I do not believe Jesus is the son of God, what is he going to judge me? -
Hi OPF
First, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is NOT his Father, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, creator of all there is.
Second, The definitive answer rest with him whom the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, appointed the judge of mankind per John 522, ?For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son? (Authorized King James Bible; AV), and not I. Think about it.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
Good. It would help if you refererred to "God" as "God" and not "God of a, b, c, d, e" as well.
-
...appointed the judge of mankind per John 522, ?For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son? (Authorized King James Bible; AV), and not I. Think about it.
<< John 12 >>King James Bible
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.A misinterpretation of messenger's authority to judge according to revelation and not souls in afterlife?
4105 That We have descended to you The Book with the truth to judge/rule between the people with what God showed you, and do not be to the betrayers an arguer?
Think about it!
Peace
-
Hi Nun de plume
As I told you before,
Simple, anyone who comprehended the Bible would well know that the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Issac, Ishmael, Noah, Moses, etc., the creator of all there is, did NOT CREATE WICKEDNESS that he abhors ? your question was answered.
Same goes for your current post.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
-
Hi iris89,
As I told you before,
Same goes for your current post.You did not answer the clear contradiction in bible of Who will be the Judge.
Anyways...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15485.msg149593#msg149593
Peace
-
Hi Nun de plume
I did not answer as there is no contradiction, only a lack of understanding by you of the principle of agency as put forth in the Bible. Let?s look at the facts a little in-depth as you have so little comprehension of the Bible
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.Trinitarians Do NOT Understand The Jewish Law of Agencies1 Timothy 25, "For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus," (Confraternity Edition of The New Testament; CETNT).
Some may find this a difficult concept, but is is similar to someone giving another a Limited Power of Attorney making him an agent to carry out an assigned task as did His Father (YHWH) at 1 Corinthians 1522-28, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (Authorized King James Bible; AV), testifies that God (YHWH) had given his Son, Jesus (Yeshua) over all except himself when the scripture says "it is manifest that he is excepted." Clearly showing they were distinct individuals and that the Father (YHWH) was the superior one; hence they were not CO-EQUAL.
Actually this is in keeping with an ancient law or custom commonly known as the Jewish Law of Agencies as follows, "Jesus (Yeshua) was God's (YHWH's) appointed agent in accordance with the 'Biblical law of agency' described as, "Scripture mentions something being done by Person A, whilst another mentions it being done by Person B. This is best understood when we grasp the Schaliach Principle, or the Jewish Law of Agency, which is expressed in the dictum, "A person's agent is regarded as the person himself." Therefore any act committed by a duly appointed agent is regarded as having been committed by the principle." (The Encyclopedia of the Jewish Religion, R.J.Z. Werblowski and Geoffrey Wigoder).
It is important to understand this law of agencies since this will enhance our understanding of many key texts, such as why the Judges and angels were called "God" (Ex. 216; 228; Ps. 85; 821). Many more instances could be provided, but brevity is in order here. John 854 drives this law of agency home, "Jesus answered, 'If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God." (CETNT), showing that Jesus (Yeshua) was his Father's (YHWH's) agent, and he sought not his own glory, but glory from his Father (YHWH). Therefore, Jesus (Yeshua) could say as he did at John 1140, "Jesus said to her, 'Have I not told thee that if thou believe thou shalt behold the glory of God?'" (CETNT). Even Satan the Devil recognized this, Jesus (Yeshua), as God's (YHWH's) agent, 2 Corinthians 44, "In their case, the god of this world has blinded their unbelieving minds, that they should not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible); thus he is trying to blind the minds of the unbelieving to prevent them from recognizing this truth. We must be constantly on guard against the imaginations of Satan the Devil and his attempts to get all men to believe God (YHWH) dishonoring doctrines of men such as the Duality and the Trinity and be noble like the Beroeans, Acts 1711, "Now these were of a nobler character than those of Thessalonica and they received the word with great eagerness, studying the Scriptures every day to see whether these things were so." (CETNT)
You need to learn the Bible instead of making dumb post that just show your lack of comprehension of same. I would recommend that you immediately start studying the Bible. To that end I have put together an 18 part introductory study of the Bible, called ?follow the Christ? which can be read at,
18 Part Follow Christ Bible Study at,
http//religioustruths.proboards59.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=jesus&thread=1182482138&page=1
Now stop making dumb statements and questions and go learn a little.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
-
hello iris89,
Now stop making dumb statements and questions and go learn a little.
First you posted this?
Quote from iris89 on Yesterday at 101850 AM
...appointed the judge of mankind per John 522, ?For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son? (Authorized King James Bible; AV), and not I. Think about it.To which I posted a contradicting verse?
<< John 12 >>King James Bible
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.Then instead of explaining the contradiction you go on a rant and call John 1247-50 dumb?
1 Timothy 25,
Which other early Christian writings/hearsays and various opinions shall I read to learn more?
The numbers on the left are for an estimated range of dating.
30-60 Passion Narrative
40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60 1 Thessalonians
50-60 Philippians
50-60 Galatians
50-60 1 Corinthians
50-60 2 Corinthians
50-60 Romans
50-60 Philemon
50-80 Colossians
50-90 Signs Gospel
50-95 Book of Hebrews
50-120 Didache
50-140 Gospel of Thomas
50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80 Gospel of Mark
70-100 Epistle of James
70-120 Egerton Gospel
70-160 Gospel of Peter
70-160 Secret Mark
70-200 Fayyum Fragment
70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
80-100 2 Thessalonians
80-100 Ephesians
80-100 Gospel of Matthew
80-110 1 Peter
80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
80-130 Gospel of Luke
80-130 Acts of the Apostles
80-140 1 Clement
80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
80-250 Christian Sibyllines
90-95 Apocalypse of John
90-120 Gospel of John
90-120 1 John
90-120 2 John
90-120 3 John
90-120 Epistle of Jude
93 Flavius Josephus
100-150 1 Timothy
100-150 2 Timothy
100-150 Titus
100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
100-150 Secret Book of James
100-150 Preaching of Peter
100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
100-160 2 Peter100-200 Odes of Solomon
101-220 Book of Elchasai
105-115 Ignatius of Antioch
110-140 Polycarp to the Philippians
110-140 Papias
110-160 Oxyrhynchus 840 Gospel
110-160 Traditions of Matthias
111-112 Pliny the Younger
115 Suetonius
115 Tacitus
120-130 Quadratus of Athens
120-130 Apology of Aristides
120-140 Basilides
120-140 Naassene Fragment
120-160 Valentinus
120-180 Apocryphon of John
120-180 Gospel of Mary
120-180 Dialogue of the Savior
120-180 Gospel of the Savior
120-180 2nd Apocalypse of James
120-180 Trimorphic Protennoia
130-140 Marcion
130-150 Aristo of Pella
130-160 Epiphanes On Righteousness
130-160 Ophite Diagrams
130-160 2 Clement
130-170 Gospel of Judas
130-200 Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus
140-150 Epistula Apostolorum
140-160 Ptolemy
140-160 Isidore
140-170 Fronto
140-170 Infancy Gospel of James
140-170 Infancy Gospel of Thomas
140-180 Gospel of Truth
150-160 Martyrdom of Polycarp
150-160 Justin Martyr
150-180 Excerpts of Theodotus
150-180 Heracleon
150-200 Ascension of Isaiah
150-200 Acts of Peter
150-200 Acts of John
150-200 Acts of Paul
150-200 Acts of Andrew
150-225 Acts of Peter and the Twelve
150-225 Book of Thomas the Contender
150-250 Fifth and Sixth Books of Esra
150-300 Authoritative Teaching
150-300 Coptic Apocalypse of Paul
150-300 Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth
150-300 Melchizedek
150-400 Acts of Pilate150-400 Anti-Marcionite Prologues
160-170 Tatian's Address to the Greeks
160-180 Claudius Apollinaris
160-180 Apelles
160-180 Julius Cassianus
160-250 Octavius of Minucius Felix
161-180 Acts of Carpus
165-175 Melito of Sardis
165-175 Hegesippus
165-175 Dionysius of Corinth
165-175 Lucian of Samosata
167 Marcus Aurelius
170-175 Diatessaron
170-200 Dura-Europos Gospel Harmony
170-200 Muratorian Canon
170-200 Treatise on the Resurrection
170-220 Letter of Peter to Philip
175-180 Athenagoras of Athens
175-185 Irenaeus of Lyons
175-185 Rhodon
175-185 Theophilus of Caesarea
175-190 Galen
178 Celsus
178 Letter from Vienna and Lyons
180 Passion of the Scillitan Martyrs
180-185 Theophilus of Antioch
180-185 Acts of Apollonius
180-220 Bardesanes
180-220 Kerygmata Petrou
180-230 Hippolytus of Rome
180-250 1st Apocalypse of James
180-250 Gospel of Philip
182-202 Clement of Alexandria
185-195 Maximus of Jerusalem
185-195 Polycrates of Ephesus
188-217 Talmud
189-199 Victor I
190-210 Pantaenus
193 Anonymous Anti-Montanist
193-216 Inscription of Abercius
197-220 Tertullian
200-210 Serapion of Antioch
200-210 Apollonius
200-220 Caius
200-220 Philostratus
200-225 Acts of Thomas
200-250 Didascalia
200-250 Books of Jeu
200-300 Pistis Sophia
200-300 Coptic Apocalypse of Peter
203 Acts of Perpetua and Felicitas
203-250 Origenpeace
-
Hi Nun de plume
Stop posting silly questions and go do a little research - study. Now here is your answer why they did not make it or short and simple they were not inspired
Bible Canon - A Challenging Addition On The Subject of The Apocrypha
INTRODUCTION
This addition to my writing , "Bible Canon' is meant to stimulate and get all thinking on why those who added to Bible canon at the Council of Trent in 1545 A.D. were in error in more than one way. The usual argument against adding some of the Apocrypha to the Bible is
Usual arguments given for not putting any of the Apocrypha in the Bible.
-
Oldest versions of the LXX date to 4th century. We don't know if the earlier copies, the version that Jesus and the apostles used, included it. Jesus and the Apostles never quote from it, though they quote hundreds of times from all parts of the OT. The apostles only allude to it in two places (2 Peter?, Jude), but not as authoritative canon.
. -
The Apocrypha itself never claims to be the Word of God.
-
Some books promote unbiblical concepts, e.g. prayer for the dead (2 Macc. 1245-46).
-
Some books have serious historical inaccuracies, e.g Tobit, Judith.
They were never included en tote in the canon by the church until the Reformation. At that time Rome officially canonized a particular list (not the full list) of the books of the Apocrypha at the Council of Trent, the fourth session, April, 1546, more than 1500 years after the books were written. These books supported the doctrine of salvation by works and prayers for the dead only 29 years after Luther posted his 95 Theses. This was the first occasion that an ecumenical council (as opposed to local or provincial council) actually ruled on the canon.
To be precise, the Apocrypha was not taken out, it was added in. It had, however, held a very respected position in church history, but its place in the canon has always been tenuous.
Now just what is the Apocrypha?
It is "The collection of writings that Protestants call the Apocrypha (hidden writings), Roman Catholics call the deuterocannonical (later or second canon) books. These were "infallibly" accepted into the Bible by the Roman Catholic Church in 1546 at the Council of Trent (which also pronounces anathema (excommunication from the church) on any who reject them."
Let's look in a little deeper into the Apocrypha with regard to what it is and how it was adopted as part of the Catholic Bible
? The Apocrypha does not present itself as inspired. The author of 2 Maccabees says that his book is the abridgement of another man's work (2 Maccabees 223). He concludes the book, saying, "If it is well written and to the point, that is what I wanted; if it is poorly done and mediocre, that is the best I could do" (2 Maccabees 153 . Mediocre is a good description of the Apocrypha. Despite its historical value, it promotes questionable ethics, fanciful legends, and doctrine that contradicts Scripture.
? The Jews of Palestine never accepted the Apocrypha as part of sacred Scripture. Neither was there a Jewish prophet living during the time in which the Apocrypha was written (300-30 B.C.).
? Jesus and the New Testament writers did not treat the Apocrypha as inspired. Though the New Testament quotes virtually every book of the Old Testament, there is not a single quotation from the Apocrypha.
? The early church as a whole never accepted the Apocrypha as inspired. Moreover, many Christian leaders spoke against the Apocrypha, including Jerome, Origen, Athanasius, and Cyril of Jerusalem.
? Even the Roman Catholic Church did not dogmatically declare the Apocrypha to be inspired until the Council of Trent in the sixteenth century. Roman Catholic priest Father. H. J. Schroeder, a translator of the decrees of the Council of Trent writes, "The Tridentine list or decree was the first infallible and effectually promulgated declaration on the Canon of the Holy Scriptures." ii The purpose of the Council of Trent was to counteract the Protestant Reformation. Protestants had rejected the Apocrypha. Rome reacted by dogmatically declaring most of the Apocrypha to be inspired. The Apocrypha also included teachings that could help Rome defend its doctrine against growing Protestant criticism. For instance, Martin Luther had forcefully argued against Rome's practice of selling pardons from purgatory. Tobit 129 supports the practice, stating, "...almsgiving saves one from death and expiates every sin." Even some Catholic writers acknowledge that Trent's decision to accept the Apocrypha as inspired is problematic. IiiCATHOLIC CHURCH POSITION ON
The Catholic church's position on the Apocrypha is recorded in the Catholic Encyclopedia as follows
Name and Notion
Etymologically, the derivation of Apocrypha is very simple, being from the Greek apokryphos, hidden, and corresponding to the neuter plural of the adjective. The use of the singular, "Apocryphon", is both legitimate and convenient, when referring to a single work. When we would attempt to seize the literary sense attaching to the word, the task is not so easy. It has been employed in various ways by early patristic writers, who have sometimes entirely lost sight of the etymology. Thus it has the connotation "uncanonical" with some of them. St. Jerome evidently applied the term to all quasi-scriptural books which in his estimation lay outside the canon of the Bible, and the Protestant Reformers, following Jerome's catalogue of Old Testament Scriptures -- one which was at once erroneous and singular among the Fathers of the Church -- applied the title Apocrypha to the excess of the Catholic canon of the Old Testament over that of the Jews. Naturally, Catholics refuse to admit such a denomination, and we employ "deuterocanonical" to designate this literature, which non-Catholics conventionally and improperly know as the "Apocrypha".The original and proper sense of the term Apocryphal as applied to the pretended sacred books was early obscured. But a clue to it may be recognized in the so-called Fourth Book of Esdras, which relates that Estrus (Era) by divine inspiration composed ninety-four books. Of these, twenty-four were restorations of the sacred literature of the Israelites which had perished in the Captivity; they were to be published openly, but the remaining were to be guarded in secret for the exclusive use of the wise (cf. Dan., ix, 4, 9, where the prophet is bidden to shut up and seal an inspired book until an appointed time). Accordingly it may be accepted as highly probable that in its original meaning an Apocryphal writing had no unfavorable import, but simply denoted a composition which claimed a sacred origin, and was supposed to have been hidden for generations, either absolutely, awaiting the due time of its revelation, or relatively, inasmuch as knowledge of it was confined to a limited esoteric circle. However, the name Apocrypha soon came to have an unfavourable signification which it still retains, comporting both want of genuineness and canonicity. These are the negative aspects of the modern application of the name; on its positive side it is properly employed only of a well defined class of literature, putting forth scriptural or quasi-scriptural pretensions, and which originated in part among the Hebrews during the two centuries preceding Christ and for a space after, and in part among Christians, both orthodox and heterodox, in the early centuries of our era. .
Remember, "Ancient literature, especially in the Orient, used methods much more free and elastic than those permitted by our modern and Occidental culture. Pseudographic composition was in vogue among the Jews in the two centuries before Christ and for some time later. The attribution of a great name of the distant past to a book by its real author, who thus effaced his own personality, was, in some cases at least, a mere literary fiction which deceived no one except the ignorant. This holds good for the so-called "Wisdom of Solomon", written in Greek and belonging to the Church's sacred canon. In other cases, where the assumed name did not stand as a symbol of a type of a certain kind of literature, the intention was not without a degree of at least objective literary dishonesty."
As clearly shown from The Catholic Encyclopedia, the so called greatest Bible scholar of the Catholic church who even split some of the books of the Jewish canon into two books, St. Jerome, did not consider that any of the Apocrypha belonged in the Bible, The Catholic Encyclopedia states, "St. Jerome evidently applied the term to all quasi-scriptural books which in his estimation lay outside the canon of the Bible," He was an astute scholar of the Bible an undoubtedly well knew the free and elastic form writers of the time of uninspired books used so therefore would even doubt the historical of the books of the Apocrypha.
THE BIG MYSTERY
Now the Apocrypha actually consist of many more books than those officially put into the Catholic Bible canon by the Council of Trent in 1546 A.D. The BIG QUESTION is why some were included by the Council of Trent and many more were not. The Catholic position of course is they had MERIT and the others did not. However, is that really the case or was the addition for political reasons? Some facts will now be presented and you be the judge
As previously stated it is well known that Jesus and the Apostles did not quote from any of them as follows
Oldest versions of the LXX date to 4th? century. We don't know if the earlier copies, the version that Jesus and the apostles used, included it. Jesus and the Apostles never quote from it, though they quote hundreds of times from all parts of the OT. The apostles only allude to it in two places (2 Peter?, Jude), but not as authoritative canon.
.Also, it is known that
The Apocrypha itself never claims to be the Word of God.
Some books? promote unbiblical concepts, e.g. prayer for the dead (2 Macc. 1245-46).
Some books have serious historical inaccuracies, e.g Tobit, Judith.?
With all this said, the obvious appears to be the addition to the Catholic Bible should be viewed strictly as the political output of a church council held by an apostate church in defiance of scripture, "18 For I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book. 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book." (Revelation 2218-19 Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible).
Now let's take a serious look at the MERITS of any book of the Apocrypha with regard to its merits to be included in the Bible. As previously stated, Jesus and the Apostles never quoted from any of the Apocrypha nor did the new testament (NT) mention any of the Apocrypha so clearly no merit for including it in the Bible. However, when we look at the old testament (OT) we actually find one book of the Apocrypha specifically mentioned by divinely inspired Bible writers
"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, while the nation took vengeance on its foes. Is this not recorded in the Book of Jashar? The sun halted in the middle of the sky; not for a whole day did it resume its swift course." (Joshua 1013 The New American Bible, World Catholic Press, approved at the Vatican on Sept. 18, 1970 by the Pope]
"which is recorded in the Book of Jashar to be taught to the Judahites He sang." (2 Samuel 118 The New American Bible, World Catholic Press, approved at the Vatican on Sept. 18, 1970 by the Pope]
This is also recorded in the Protestant Bibles with the Book of Jashar alternately called/translated as Book of the Just and Book of the Upright in some cases. See
" And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day." (Joshua 1013 AV)
"So the sun, was still, and, the moon, stayed, until a nation should be avenged on its fees. Is not, that, written in the Book of the Upright? So then the sun stayed in the middle of the heavens, and hastened not to go in, about a whole day." (Joshua 1013 Rothrham)
" (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)" (2 Samuel 118 AV)
"and he saith to teach the sons of Judah 'The Bow;' lo, it is written on the book of the Upright -" (2 Samuel 118 Youngs)
And in translations in other languages such as Spanish
"Y el sol se detuvo y la luna se par?, hasta que el pueblo se hubo vengado de sus enemigos. ?No est? escrito esto en el libro de Jaser? El sol se detuvo en medio del cielo, y no se apresur? a ponerse casi un d?a entero." (Joshua 1013 RVA89)
"y mand? que ense?asen a los hijos de Jud? el Canto del Arco. He aqu? que est? escrito en el libro de Jaser" (2 Samuel 118 RVA89)
However, the BIG MYSTERY herein is why the one Apocrypha book specifically mentioned in divinely inspired canonical books of the Bible and by St. Jerome in his Bible translation was NOT included in the uninspired books of the Apocrypha that the Council of Trent of an apostate church included in their Bible by council decree. This is especially salient as it is the only book of the Apocrypha actually mentioned in the Bible. If any book of the Apocrypha had ANY MERIT, the Book of Jasher had it.
Even though it is specifically mentioned as previously shown in all Catholic and non-Catholic Bible Translations, it does not even have listing in the Catholic Encyclopedia, WHY?
THE BOOK OF JASHER
Well, let's take a cursory look at the features of the Book of Jasher
The Rev. Thomas Scott had this to say on the Book of Jasher
Upright. "The Book of Jasher," rendered in the LXX. "the Book of the Upright One," by the Vulgate "the Book of Just Ones," was probably a kind of national sacred song-book, a collection of songs in praise of the heroes of Israel, a "book of golden deeds," a national anthology. We have only two specimens from the book,
- the words of Joshua which he spake to the Lord at the crisis of the battle of Beth-horon #Jos 1012,13
- "the Song of the Bow," that beautiful and touching mournful elegy which David composed on the occasion of the death of Saul and Jonathan #2Sa 118-27
- Jasher. or, the upright. So LXX. Targum, {siphra deooritha,} "the book of the law;" the Arabic, "the book of Ashee this is the book of Samuel." This book was probably a collection of divine odes, written to commemorate remarkable events.
The International Standard Encyclopedia had this to say on the Book of Jasher
The title of an ancient Hebrew national song-book (literally, "book of the righteous one" from which two quotations are made in the Old Testament
(1) Joshua 1012-14, the command of Joshua to the sun and moon, "Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon. .... Is not this written in the book of Jashar?" (see BETH-HORON; Septuagint in this place omits the reference to Jashar); and
(2) 2 Samuel 18, "the song of the bow," or lament of David over Saul and Jonathan.
(3) Some conjecture a third extract in 1 Kings 812, "Then spake Solomon, Yahweh hath said that he would dwell in the thick darkness." The words of Yahweh are quoted by Septuagint in 853 as "written in the book of the song" (en
biblio tes odes), and it is pointed out that the words "the song" (in Hebrew ha-shir) might easily be a corruption of ha-yashar. A similar confusion ("song" for "righteous" may explain the fact that the Holy Cow Pud, Batman Syriac of Joshua has for a title "the book of praises or hymns." The book evidently was a well-known one, and may have been a gradual collection of religious and national songs. It is conjectured that it may have included the So of Deborah (Judges 5), and older pieces now found in the Pentateuch (e.g. Genesis 423,14; 925-27; 2727-29); this, however, is uncertain. On the curious theories and speculations of the rabbis and others about the book (that it was the Book of the Law, of Genesis, etc.), with the fantastic reconstructive theory of Dr. Donaldson in his Jasbar, see the full article in HDB.MERITS OF THE BOOK OF JASHER
The Bible reference quoting Jasher in 2 Samuel 118 is taken from Jasher 569. The reference in Joshua 1013 comes from Jasher 8864. The book of Jasher also mentions books of the Bible Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, and 1 Chronicles.
In Jasher 227-31 Lemech kills Cain and then Tubal Cain by accident. Could this explain Genesis 423-24 as a lament and not a boast?
Another example is Jasher 418 - "And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took of the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of the animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth was corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals." This may explain the statement of God in Genesis 65 which says, "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Consider for a moment what we read in Jasher 58-9 - "For thus saith the Lord, behold I give you a period of one hundred and twenty years; if you will turn to me and forsake your evil ways, then will I also turn away form the evil which I told you, and it shall not exist, saith the Lord. And Noah and Methuseleh spake all the words of the Lord to the sons of men, day after day, constantly speaking to them.
Jasher says, Noah and Methuseleh preach for 120 years before the flood. But there is more. In Jasher 515-16 Noah marries Enochs' daughter. "...Noah went and took a wife, and he chose Naamah the daughter of Enoch, and whe was five hundred and eighty years old. And Noah was four hundred and ninety years old, when he took Naamah for a wife."Could it be possible that Nimrod was Amraphel? Jasher 116 says, "Nimrod dwelt in Babel, and he there renewed his reign over the rest of his subjects, and he reigned securely, and the subjects and princes called his name Amraphel, saying that at the tower his princes and men fell through his means." Genesis 141 & 9 identifies Amraphel as the King of Shinar.
Could Shem have been Melchizedek (Gen. 141 ? Jasher 1611 certainly points us in that direction. It says, "And Adonizedek King of Jerusalem, the same was Shem, whent out with his men to meet Abram and his people, with bread and wine, and they remained together in the valley of Melech." It is an interesting possibility to consider that Abraham and his descendants traveled back and forth to visit Shem and Eber.
In Jasher 751-20 we read that the children of Ephraim, son of Joseph, lose all but 10 men in a war in Gath. It certainly seems possible that this could coincide with 1 Chronicles 721-23. . logosresourcepages.org/jasher.htm]Here's just a few of the exciting things you will read in Jasher that do not appear in the Bible.
? A much more detailed account of the wickedness that was occurring before the flood at the time of Noah.
? A terrifying account of the fear that gripped Noah, his family and all the animals on the ark as the earth was being destroyed.
? A detailed account of the life of Nimrod. Jasher records that Nimrod was the builder of Babylon and that he led the world astray through sorcery and witchcraft. Nimrod also established the first one world dictatorship and reigned over all the sons of Noah. Furthermore, Nimrod is mentioned as the one who organized the construction of the tower of Babel.See Part Two
-
-
Part Two of A Challenging Addition On The Subject of The Apocrypha
The Book of Jasher includes details about antediluvian patriarchs which are confirmed by modern revelation. The question arises of how the author of Jasher could have known specific facts from before the Great Flood, such as Cainan becoming very wise when he was forty years old. These correlations attest that it was composed from exceedingly ancient reliable sources.....The book is a history of the world from the creation until the period of the Judges in Israel. It contains much more information than is found in Genesis for that same period, which makes very interesting reading and clears up many confusing issues in the Bible. It is written mostly as a secular history, but it does contain many references to what God was doing. It is similar to the Books of Joshua through Chronicles in the Bible which describe many historical events such as battles and wars, but which also point out the hand of God in the affairs of men.
Joshua 1013
It is easy to find the place where the book of Joshua apparently quotes this Book of Jasher
"And when they were smiting, the day was declining toward evening, and Joshua said in the sight of all the people, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon, and thou moon in the valley of Ajalon, until the nation shall have revenged itself upon its enemies.
"And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Joshua, and the sun stood still in the midst of the heavens, and it stood still six and thirty moments, and the moon also stood still and hastened not to go down a whole day." (Jasher 8863-64)
2 Samuel 118
The reason is that it is David himself who was quoting the Book of Jasher, rather than the Book of Jasher merely recording David's actions. Jasher contains the injunction that the children of Judah should learn the art of the bow and David considered the Book of Jasher of such high authority that if it commanded to teach the art of the bow, he was determined to do it. That puts an entirely different light on the subject. Here is the actual quote, from the last words of Jacob to his son Judah
"Only teach thy sons the bow and all weapons of war, in order that they may fight the battles of their brother who will rule over his enemies." (Jasher 569)
Agreement with the Bible. Most reviewers grant that there are no significant disagreements between Book of Jasher and the Bible. In fact, one excellent new annotated reprint adds several appendices discussing clarifications made in Jasher. The few disagreements between Jasher and the Bible are insufficient to disqualify it from being the authentic lost book mentioned in the scriptures.THE BOOK OF JASPER WHILE HAVING MERITS IS QUESTIONABLE
"Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning the Apocrypha - There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly; There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are interpolations by the hands of men. Verily, I say unto you, that it is not needful that the Apocrypha should be translated. Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth; And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit And whoso receiveth not by the Spirit, cannot be benefitted. Therefore it is not needful that it should be translated. Amen." (D.&C. 911-6)
The Book of Jasher contradicts the Bible in many places, examples follow
Jasher 135 says that Abram went to the land of Canaan at the age of 50 then back to Haran and back to Canaan at age 75, Genesis 124 states that Abram was 75 when he departed Haran.
Jasher 189 states that one of the angels tells Abraham that Sarah will have a son, but Gen. 1716 says that God told Abraham.
Jasher 2244-45 says the Lord got the idea of presenting Isaac as an offering from Isaac's boast to Ishmael. We know, of course, that God is sovereign and as it says in Gen. 221-2 & 12 that the Lord was testing Abraham.
Genesis 285 states that Isaac sent Jacob to Padan-aram unto Laban but Jasher 2911 says that he fled to the house of Eber and hid there for 14 years.
Jasher 479 says Isaac dies, according to the chronology of Jasher, Joseph was in Egypt but in Gen. 3529 Isaac died before Joseph had his dreams.
Simeon could not be bound in Jasher 5137 but in Genesis. 4224 Simeon is bound before their eyes.
There are also many areas that are completely unbiblical.
In Jasher 4230-41, Rachel talks to Joseph from the grave. This is of course necromancy and is an abomination unto the Lord (Deuteronomy 1811-12).
According to 5318-22 Benjamin used a "map (or chart) of stars" to find Joseph. Deuteronomy 1810 forbids this. It is an abomination to be "an observer of times" (astrologer).
Judah threatens Joseph 541-68 with annulations but Genesis 4414-34 is a plea for Benjamin's release.
Chapter 71 of Jasher states that Moses was 18 years old when he left Egypt. (Could this be Rabbinical tradition?) He didn't go to Midian but to Cush and becomes king (7234-36) and is king over Cush for forty years (732), then he goes to Midian where Reuel puts him in prison for 10 years because Reuel thinks Moses is wanted by the Holy Cow Pud, Batman. In the book of Acts (723-30) Stephen, inspired by the Holy Spirit, stated the Moses was in Egypt for 40 Years before going to Midian for another 40 years.
Jasher 813-4 claims that the Israelites sojourned in Egypt for 210 years whereas the Scripture says in Exodus 1240-41 it was 430 years.
Jasher 8140-41says that all but Pharaoh perished in the Red Sea. Pharaoh thanks the Lord and the Lord sends an angel who casts him upon the land of Ninevah where Pharaoh reigned for a long time. Scripture (Exodus 1423 & 2 states that all perished.
Jasher 321-40 -- Esau comes to harm Jacob but angels of the Lord scare Esau, v.55 Esau fears Jacob. Genesis 333 Jacob bows seven times to Esau.
Jasher 4335 -- Isaac went from Hebron to comfort Jacob, his son, because Joseph is dead (sold). Gen. 3527-29 Isaac died before Joseph even dreamed his dreams.
Jasher 8138 -- "And the Waters of the sea were divided into twelve parts...." Exodus 1422 "And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand and on their left."Therefore, like the other Apocrypha books such as Tobit, Wisdom, Judith, 1 & 2 Macabees they contradict the books of the divinely inspired Bible canon and 2 Macabees even promotes the un-scriptural practice of the worship of the dead. So while it is the only Apocrypha book ever quoted in the Bible it clearly is not divinely inspired like the other books of the Apocrypha and does NOT belong in the Bible; whereas the Apocrypha books the apostate church saw fit at their Council of Trent to add to their Bible have much less to recommend them.
Your Friend Iris89,
-
Hello iris89,
Stop posting silly questions and go do a little research - study. Now here is your answer why they did not make it or short and simple they were not inspired
Says who emperor Constantine and Jerome.
Yeah OK sure I'll stop wasting my time replying -- best of luck to you.
Peace
-
Hi Nun de plume
You are not trying to learn but throw up any nonsense you can find that you do not understand. I post to assist all with respect to learning the truth per John 832, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV). You should start trying to learn.As I told you before,
You need to learn the Bible instead of making dumb post that just show your lack of comprehension of same. I would recommend that you immediately start studying the Bible. To that end I have put together an 18 part introductory study of the Bible, called ?follow the Christ? which can be read at,
18 Part Follow Christ Bible Study at,
http//religioustruths.proboards59.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=jesus&thread=1182482138&page=1
Now do you want to study the Bible or not?
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
-
You need to learn the Bible instead of making dumb post that just show your lack of comprehension of same. I would recommend that you immediately start studying the Bible. To that end I have put together an 18 part introductory study of the Bible, called ?follow the Christ? which can be read at,
Salaam Iris
We also said you need to read, not the quraan (which you seem to haven not, and that shows in your posts littered with hearsy that we do not believe in), but just this forum and the articles (choose a few) so that you know who you are discussing with. Why do you think that your commands are more important than our request?
Now do you want to study the Bible or not?
Now do you want to know us or not?
Stop posting silly questions and go do a little research - study.
This is neither the language of a researcher, nor of a teacher, nor of a humble person claiming to follow Jesus to the letter. Questions are not silly. Answers may be.