Under what circumstances believer can lie
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Nowhere in al-quran does siddiq or its derivatives mean 'saint'
The appropriate definition of siddiqan is
one who is true and sincere or one who speaks the truth
Actually study the words of al-quran instead of insisting on replacing hadeeth with RK's translation
I will go along with "true and sincere", are not saints "true and sincere"??
I will not go with "man of Trurth" because once in Abrahim's life he had to lie under opression.. None the less he lied. There are no contridictions in the Quran, if you believe that Abrahim was always true then you are believing Hadith..
Rashad Khalifa was the messenger of the covenant, he must have been inspired to translate the verse in such a way.. Many more translations are also translated this way therefore he could not have been wrong..
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Look up the definition of 'saints'. It's more aligned with christianity and is kin to idolatry.
There are no contridictions in the Quran, if you believe that Abrahim was always true then you are believing Hadith..
rotfl
Rashad Khalifa was the messenger of the covenant, he must have been inspired to translate the verse in such a way
http//www.yuksel.org/e/religion/submitters.htm
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Look up the definition of 'saints'. It's more aligned with christianity and is kin to idolatry.
I understand Rashad Khalifa's short comings and I am also familiar with his successes. And I believe the translation of this verse 1941 is his success and he is spot on.
Saint also means a person having lived a life of holiness and exceptional virtue. And this is the only reason the word "Saint" could have been used in this verse by Rashad. The usage of word "Saint" is in with line with the following verse, and Rashad did exceptionaly well in doing what he did ie spreading message to Christians, Jews, and converts..
Unity of All Submitters
Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
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I will go along with "true and sincere", are not saints "true and sincere"??
I will not go with "man of Trurth" because once in Abrahim's life he had to lie under opression.. None the less he lied. There are no contridictions in the Quran, if you believe that Abrahim was always true then you are believing Hadith..
Rashad Khalifa was the messenger of the covenant, he must have been inspired to translate the verse in such a way.. Many more translations are also translated this way therefore he could not have been wrong..
I have to rethink, his lie was transparent as glass. I forgot the context when I said he lied, but if I smashed up your room and keyboard, as Ayman said, and left the 1 and 9 keys on only, then told you it was the keyboard, ask it who did it, would you believe it?
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I have to rethink, his lie was transparent as glass. I forgot the context when I said he lied, but if I smashed up your room and keyboard, as Ayman said, and left the 1 and 9 keys on only, then told you it was the keyboard, ask it who did it, would you believe it?
You are just trying to make excuses for Abrahim. The fact is he lied, no matter what the reason is.
You are saying that "reason justifies the means", this is precisely what the Terrorists all around the world are using as an excuse to blow up innocent people.
Abrahim had choice, he could have said I did it, but he did not, he said the "Big one did it", it is beside the point why he did it, he still lied.
Do not be influenced by "reason justifies the means", lie is always a lie, and it does not justify the means..
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Basically you are saying "the reason justifies the mean" and I am saying opposite of that ie lieing is lieing no matter how and I confirmed this with Quran. Another confirmation is that no where in the Quran Abrahim is proclaimed to be Honest (either honest messenger or prophet) why because this is the book of truth and Abrahim was less then honest when he lied
Basing on your Hadith ridden idea that "the reason justifies the mean", don't you think the Hadith is misleading many, ie the Terrorists are also adopting this attitude ie there reason is that it is Jahad (reason), and any atrasity (means)is justifiable because of it.
It is true that most of the time one need not call an idiot and stupid a fool since they keep reflecting themselves.
It is the famous Hadith of Bukhari that Allah forbids Ibrahim aliahissalam had lied thrice in his life. Then he recaled two and forgot to mention or narrate the so called third lie.It would be stupid to presume and infer from earlier post like this
Basing on your Hadith ridden idea that "the reason justifies the mean",
. And it will be stupid on my part to argue with a person who compares Sidq with Alhaqo. Good day. -
You are just trying to make excuses for Abrahim. The fact is he lied, no matter what the reason is.
You are saying that "reason justifies the means", this is precisely what the Terrorists all around the world are using as an excuse to blow up innocent people.
Abrahim had choice, he could have said I did it, but he did not, he said the "Big one did it", it is beside the point why he did it, he still lied.
Do not be influenced by "reason justifies the means", lie is always a lie, and it does not justify the means..
The "lie" was completely transparent. Don't skirt the analogy, if I smashed your room and left those keys, and told you that they did it, who do you think did it?
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The "lie" was completely transparent. Don't skirt the analogy, if I smashed your room and left those keys, and told you that they did it, who do you think did it?
No matter how transparent that lie was it was still a lie!
You can believe opinions or believe the facts given in the Quran it is entirely up to you..
The definition of Lie is false statement made with intention of deceiving. That's exactly what Abrahim did;
He said to his father and his people, "What are these statues to which you are devoting yourselves?"
They said, "We found our parents worshiping them."
He said, "Indeed, you and your parents have gone totally astray."
They said, "Are you telling us the truth, or are you playing?"
He said, "Your only Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, who created them. This is the testimony to which I bear witness.
"I swear by GOD, I have a plan to deal with your statues, as soon as you leave."
He broke them into pieces, except for a big one, that they may refer to it.
They said, "Whoever did this to our gods is really a transgressor."
They said, "We heard a youth threaten them; he is called Abraham."
They said, "Bring him before the eyes of all the people, that they may bear witness."
They said, "Did you do this to our gods, O Abraham?"
Abraham Proves His Point
He said, "It is that big one who did it. Go ask them, if they can speak."
They were taken aback, and said to themselves, "Indeed, you are the ones who have been transgressing."
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Peace ijaz,
No matter how transparent that lie was it was still a lie!
You can believe opinions or believe the facts given in the Quran it is entirely up to you..
The definition of Lie is false statement made with intention of deceiving. That's exactly what Abrahim did;
He said to his father and his people, "What are these statues to which you are devoting yourselves?"
They said, "We found our parents worshiping them."
He said, "Indeed, you and your parents have gone totally astray."
They said, "Are you telling us the truth, or are you playing?"
He said, "Your only Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, who created them. This is the testimony to which I bear witness.
"I swear by GOD, I have a plan to deal with your statues, as soon as you leave."
He broke them into pieces, except for a big one, that they may refer to it.
They said, "Whoever did this to our gods is really a transgressor."
They said, "We heard a youth threaten them; he is called Abraham."
They said, "Bring him before the eyes of all the people, that they may bear witness."
They said, "Did you do this to our gods, O Abraham?"
Abraham Proves His Point
He said, "It is that big one who did it. Go ask them, if they can speak."
They were taken aback, and said to themselves, "Indeed, you are the ones who have been transgressing."
No, there was no intent to conceal or mislead anyone from the truth.
It was to get them to comprehend since it was obvious who did it; he said it prior!
Rather a clear mockery (not a lie) to blame destruction of rocks on a bigger rock. lol
peace