regarding kabah
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There is nothing specific in the koran with regards to punishment.
5.33. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
From capitl punishment, to torture, to mutilation to jail or exile. All are avaiable in mankind's society. Nothing specific. Verses say flooging adulterer others say confinig them to their homes. In all cases the person can repent.
Hahaha i personally find that verse charming. But only appliable to the kind of people who commit mass murderers. Well naturally these people can't be exiled, they are dangerous.
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There is nothing specific in the koran with regards to punishment.
5.33. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
From capitl punishment, to torture, to mutilation to jail or exile. All are avaiable in mankind's society. Nothing specific. Verses say flooging adulterer others say confinig them to their homes. In all cases the person can repent.
You cannot be serious.
Let's rephrase, there is no punishment in the Quran. When you take the verses out of context.
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Before I answer to you dear Zenje;
lost Philospher said
It is true that the Quran says to pray to it.....
This satement can be written this way
It is true that the Quran says to face towards it while praying rather than
Praying to it.
So dear Zenje I thought this is what is meant by lost philospher, now if you disagree with this satement also, then we can start our discussion.
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Zenje and Wakas it is not an easy topic to understand and discuss, it is Ramzan and time is short; any how keeping its importance in my mind I will try, it is easy to make it understand to one who wants too, but for those who have made their mindsets it is quite difficult including me.
The fools among the people would say, "Why did they change the direction of their Qiblah?" Say, "To GOD belongs the east and the west; He guides whoever wills in a straight path."
We thus made you an impartial community, that you may serve as witnesses among the people, and the messenger serves as a witness among you. We changed the direction of your original Qiblah only to distinguish those among you who readily follow the messenger from those who would turn back on their heels. It was a difficult test, but not for those who are guided by GOD. GOD never puts your worship to waste. GOD is Compassionate towards the people, Most Merciful.
We have seen you turning your face about the sky. We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do.
Even if you show the followers of the scripture every kind of miracle, they will not follow your Qiblah. Nor shall you follow their Qiblah. They do not even follow each others' Qiblah. If you acquiesce to their wishes, after the knowledge that has come to you, you will belong with the transgressors
Wherever you go, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. This is the truth from your Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything you all do.
O you who believe, seek help through steadfastness and the Contact Prayers (Salat). GOD is with those who steadfastly persevere
The Quran tells us in one of the above regarding disputes among the Jews and Christians in regards to their qiblah. It is because of their carelessness regarding the qiblah that the Quran states in unequivacol terms that the Muslims must not be like them in this regard. If God Almighty has criticized the ahl-kitab for their negligence in their following the covenant of God, the Muslims themselves must not fall into the same mode of behavior.
After stating this point, the Almighty than makes parenthetical remark that the Muslims should not heed the criticisms of the unjust Jews in Christians in this matter that will naturally result, because they are simply bent on aggressive behavior because of their JEALOUSY. Further, the Quran engenders the proper psychological attitude of a believer when he turns for prayer. The fear of God MUST BE THE DRIVING FORCE IN HIS BEHAVIOR, and he must keep this in mind.Allah all over Quran talks about unity of Muslims and Muslims as one community
For instance, if Muslims want to offer Salaah, it is possible that some may wish to face north, while some may wish to face south. In order to unite Muslims in their worship of the One True God, Muslims, wherever they may be, are asked to face in only one direction i.e. towards the Kaaba. If some Muslims live towards the west of the Kaaba they face the east. Similarly if they live towards the east of the Kaaba they face the west.
Imagine if there was no one direction to face then everyone would have faced all directions which may have caused dissent and disunity in the heart of the Muslims. Therefore it was essential to provide a common direction for the Muslims throughout the world.Quran does say to face at some specific direction.
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In order to unite Muslims in their worship of the One True God, Muslims, wherever they may be, are asked to face in only one direction i.e. towards the Kaaba.
Do you face Kaaba while driving? while working? Where is kaaba assigned as the qibla?
We are told to face masjid al harram wherever we are
You are making a huge assumption that the sacred masjid = kaaba
I can make a much better case for becca as per 396
2146 Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it as they know their own children; and a group of them hides the truth while they know.
if you ask christians or jews who know their scriptures what will they say?
2147 The truth is from your Lord, so do not be one of those who doubt.
The truth is the direction
2148 And to each is a direction that he will take, so you shall race towards good deeds. Wherever you may be, God will bring you all together. God is capable of all things.
What direction are we told to 'face' here?
2149 And from wherever you go out, you shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; it is the truth from your Lord; and God is not unaware of what you do.
2150 And wherever you go out, you shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple. And wherever you may be you shall set yourselves towards it; that the people will have no room for debate with you, except those of them who are wicked. You shall not fear them, but fear Me; so that I may complete My blessings upon you and that you may be guided.
Do you face kaaba ALL THE TIME? as per 2150
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Scripture, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who honors the Connection, and who contributes towards betterment; as well as those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of good and bad and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and they are the righteous.
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Quote
In order to unite Muslims in their worship of the One True God, Muslims, wherever they may be, are asked to face in only one direction i.e. towards the Kaaba.Dargento
Do you face Kaaba while driving? while working? Where is kaaba assigned as the qibla?
We are told to face masjid al harram wherever we are
You are making a huge assumption that the sacred masjid = kaabaI can make a much better case for becca as per 396
Come on D you can't even read properly, sorry to say, how come you can make a better case for becca??
You quoted and you did not even read the quote, before responding, The quote says, to unite muslims in their worship of One true God.
We are talking about worship and particularly Salaat.
Why should I face Kaaba while driving? and working ? am I worshipping?
What is assumption there, it is crystal clear, we discuss it later on.
Dargento
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Scripture, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who honors the Connection, and who contributes towards betterment; as well as those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of good and bad and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and they are the righteous
You have quoted it in bold and Pitty you have not read it.
When reading this verse with above verses which I quoted, it can easily be understood that, Offcourse WE HAVE TO TURN OUR FACES AT SOME PARTICULAR DIRECTION, but ............................................they are the righteous. -
Wakas
qiblah does not equal kabbah, as per Quran, sorry. If you re-phrase your argument to say we should face qiblah then that is a different story.
It is too early to issue a statement, brother.
We have seen you turning your face about the sky. We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid.
Muhammad an Arab
Born in Mecca, brought up In Mecca
Could natrually only be pleased if the Mosque of his birth place is to be assigned as Qibla for all the Muslims.Mustansir Mir do whom you like to read
points out that the actual words of the Quran is akin to "We have seen your face IN THE SKIES." This shows that the Prophet was in fact turning his face to the skies so much in prayer with the hope that God Almighty would restore the qiblah to the ORIGINAL house that Ibraheem established for this purpose, it was as if his face was IN the heavens.Only in this way the Prophecy of Abraham could have been fullfilled.
Therefore KAABAH IS QIBLA according to my understanding of Quran.Tell us yours?
"Qibla doesnot equal Kaaba as per Quran" why? How?
Waiting for your detail reply, if you issue a statement then you must have some solid reasoning for that, let us hear.
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Raj-ah,
Firstly, it was YOU making a claim that we should face kabbah and this is in AQ, not me. I knew this was incorrect and thus asked you for evidence, for which you did not show any direct link, but indirect.
The myth of the traditional Kabbah can easily be debunked by looking at AQ itself
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10079.msg53357#msg53357
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9837.msg111108#msg111108 -
Peace Raj-Ah
The thing is that there is no mention of us to turn in that direction during Salat. It is said as "We have seen you turning your face about the sky. We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid."
or
"Wherever you go, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. This is the truth from your Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything you all do."
My point is that there is no link between Salat and us turning our face towards an area.
Peace,
Nyma -
Peace Raj-Ah
The thing is that there is no mention of us to turn in that direction during Salat. It is said as "We have seen you turning your face about the sky. We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid."
or
"Wherever you go, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. This is the truth from your Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything you all do."
My point is that there is no link between Salat and us turning our face towards an area.
Peace,
Nyma-
For the covenants (of security and safeguard enjoyed) by the Quraish,
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Their covenants (covering) journeys by winter and summer,-
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Let them adore the Lord of this House,
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Who provides them with food against hunger, and with security against fear (of danger).
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Dear Nyma
Peace Raj-Ah
The thing is that there is no mention of us to turn in that direction during Salat. It is said as "We have seen you turning your face about the sky. We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid."
or
"Wherever you go, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. This is the truth from your Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything you all do."
My point is that there is no link between Salat and us turning our face towards an area.
Peace,
NymaThen again you did not read all the verses before arriving at a conclusion
The fools among the people would say, "Why did they change the direction of their Qiblah?" Say, "To GOD belongs the east and the west; He guides whoever wills in a straight path."
We thus made you an impartial community, that you may serve as witnesses among the people, and the messenger serves as a witness among you. We changed the direction of your original Qiblah only to distinguish those among you who readily follow the messenger from those who would turn back on their heels. It was a difficult test, but not for those who are guided by GOD. GOD never puts your worship to waste. GOD is Compassionate towards the people, Most Merciful.
The Qiblah was changed upon request of Muhammad, So Allah can distinguish between two groups of people. In the same verses Allah tells us GOD never puts your worship to waste.
When the Qiblah was changed from the original to Kaaba that is in Makkah, the Jews and Christians got annoyed. If you go back to the books of Allah, you will clearly find out that all those who prayed Physically faced towards a particular direction. I have posted many Ayats from Bible old and New in different topics.Even an average person can understand that the talk is about Worship and one of the way to worship Allah is through Slaat. Therefore your argument that Salaat has no link with facing any particular area needs reconsideration.
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Wakas
Raj-ah,
Firstly, it was YOU making a claim that we should face kabbah and this is in AQ, not me. I knew this was incorrect and thus asked you for evidence, for which you did not show any direct link, but indirect.
Yes I made a claim as per my understanding of Quran, so did you, you issued a statement and I am just asking how did you arrived at that statement?
I have given my reasons right or wrong! so should you.Regarding the links, you provided and the questions you raised in those links, most of them have been answered by me in the thread "Who built the Kaaba"?
But then again that is not the proper way, please tell us here in this thread because I am not Jaxal, I may answer or ask questions differently from that of Jaxal.
We are here to learn and share. The only way you can dismantle the proof in favour of Kaaba being in Makkah is to show me that the "Prophet", which Abraham promised who will come from the people of the land of "HOUSE" was not born in Arab (Makkah).
Stage is all yours.
Remember ayman failed to provide a proof from Quran that Kaaba was located in Northren Arabia.
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Dear Nyma
Then again you did not read all the verses before arriving at a conclusion
The fools among the people would say, "Why did they change the direction of their Qiblah?" Say, "To GOD belongs the east and the west; He guides whoever wills in a straight path."
We thus made you an impartial community, that you may serve as witnesses among the people, and the messenger serves as a witness among you. We changed the direction of your original Qiblah only to distinguish those among you who readily follow the messenger from those who would turn back on their heels. It was a difficult test, but not for those who are guided by GOD. GOD never puts your worship to waste. GOD is Compassionate towards the people, Most Merciful.
The Qiblah was changed upon request of Muhammad, So Allah can distinguish between two groups of people. In the same verses Allah tells us GOD never puts your worship to waste.
When the Qiblah was changed from the original to Kaaba that is in Makkah, the Jews and Christians got annoyed. If you go back to the books of Allah, you will clearly find out that all those who prayed Physically faced towards a particular direction. I have posted many Ayats from Bible old and New in different topics.Even an average person can understand that the talk is about Worship and one of the way to worship Allah is through Slaat. Therefore your argument that Salaat has no link with facing any particular area needs reconsideration.
Maybe it was changed from Makkah to Jerusalem.
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Maybe it was changed from Makkah to Jerusalem.
Or from "Sky" to Jerusalem?
In the previous passage there are some mentioning about "You held your face to the sky/upwards".
And there are also a passage about "The people of the book knew/recognized that the command was indeed from their LORD".
(Jerusalem is a familiar place to them).The "traditional" view on this has its own "bugs" / "illogicality".
The pagan Arab's cubic structure named "Kaba", still house many idols at that time.
It would be indeed strange that God instruct Muhammad Ibnu Abdullah and its people to pray towards "A supermarket of Idols" called Kaba.Salam
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Peace Rajah,
Remember ayman failed to provide a proof from Quran that Kaaba was located in Northren Arabia.
You don't even know the meaning of the word "kaaba" and thus are unable to translate it.
The house of the god is the base and not some pagan stone cube and its location is given precisely in 2226. It is not my problem that you don't have faith in 2226.
If you are looking for proof that stone cubes were located in Northern Arabia then there is plenty of it. You can go to Petra in Northern Arabia and see the stone cubes that you love to adore
http//img407.imageshack.us/img407/3543/5blockpetrahl9.jpg
http//img186.imageshack.us/img186/8889/4petradjinnblockslo3.jpg
I know you love stone cubes but please resist the urge to kiss or bow towards the images displayed on your computer screen.
Peace,
Ayman
