regarding kabah
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We had this discussion/exercise in common sense logic before...
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3340 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Earlier (80) verses were posted all referencing Qur?an; therefore, according to Qur?an ? was not Qur?an sent down to the last Prophet?
Transitive Property of Equality if a = b and b = c, then a = c
Simple logic!
Listen and pay attention to the first verse?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yfR1pLOJ1A
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Ibrahim (Abraham) 141
Alif Lam Ra. A Book which We have revealed unto thee in order that thou mightest lead mankind out of the depths of darkness into light by the leave of their Lord to the Way of (Him) Exalted in Power, Worthy of all Praise!
Again this does not prove that Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad PBUH.He might be having some companion prophet as Haroon PBUH was with Moses PBUH.
The companion of Prophet PBUH might be "Ahmed" for whome the Jesus PBUH foretold . -
Salaam Raj-ah
According to Islamic history, wasn't the cubic room in Mecca full of idols when the prophet was in Medina? According to the same source, wasnt in Medina that these verses were revealed?
Do you think that God would ignore the fact that the cubic room was still full of idols and was still circumbulated by the pagans, and only think of what "pleases" Muhammad vis-a-vis his birth place and make him pray towards those idols, just like the pagans who were still praying to those idols at that time?
Sister Samia
please do not depend upon Hearsay.How can Baitullah be occupied by idols?? Please provide some concrete proof from the Quran.
Thanks -
A lesson in logic of The Quran
If person A believes in something (lets says traditional ahadith) and person B does not. Person B can still use traditional ahadith in their argument/discussion to disprove person A's position, e.g. by finding contradictions, inconsistancies, errors within traditional ahadith themselves etc.
This method is even cited in The Quran itself when those who disbelieve and doubt The Quran are asked to find an inconsistancy in The Quran or bring a chapter like The Quran etc.
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A lesson in logic of The Quran
If person A believes in something (lets says traditional ahadith) and person B does not. Person B can still use traditional ahadith in their argument/discussion to disprove person A's position, e.g. by finding contradictions, inconsistancies, errors within traditional ahadith themselves etc.
This method is even cited in The Quran itself when those who disbelieve and doubt The Quran are asked to find an inconsistancy in The Quran or bring a chapter like The Quran etc.
Dear Wakas
If you will base you argument on wrong elements its conclusion will also be wrong (common sense).It is the reason Quran forbids to accept the news narrated by "Faasiq".
If bread is not available it does not mean one starts eating filth.
496
3370 -
Again this does not prove that Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad PBUH.He might be having some companion prophet as Haroon PBUH was with Moses PBUH.
The companion of Prophet PBUH might be "Ahmed" for whome the Jesus PBUH foretold .616 prophesied a messenger Arabic root h-m-d meaning ?highly praised.? Who else can it refer to?
The numerous verses posted earlier especially 472 do prove it; onus is on you to bring evidence of your false claim there was ?something else? per 496...
472 shows that there was some revelation to Muhammad PBUH.Which Revelation whether it was really Quran or something else ,the Holy Quran is silent.
Peace
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616 prophesied a messenger Arabic root h-m-d meaning ?highly praised.? Who else can it refer to?
The numerous verses posted earlier especially 472 do prove it; onus is on you to bring evidence of your false claim there was ?something else? per 496...
Peace
There is no mentioning that it was Quran which was revealed to prophet Muhammad PBUH.
what was revealed to AHmed ? For whome Jesus PBUH foretold ?
Naturally he was also Rasool. -
There is no mentioning that it was Quran which was revealed to prophet Muhammad PBUH.
what was revealed to AHmed ? For whome Jesus PBUH foretold ?
Naturally he was also Rasool.Amazing how something so clear right in front of you is invisible to you.
3340 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Who was the last Prophet and was not Qur?an sent to the last Prophet?
If you can't see that then it's hopeless to continue; perhaps read Fatiha and start at beginning...
Surah 2. The Cow
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A.L.M.
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This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
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Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
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And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
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They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
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As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
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Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
Salam!
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Amazing how something so clear right in front of you is invisible to you.
3340 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Who was the last Prophet and was not Qur?an sent to the last Prophet?
If you can't see that then it's hopeless to continue; perhaps read Fatiha and start at beginning...
Surah 2. The Cow
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A.L.M.
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This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
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Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
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And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the ***urance of the Hereafter.
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They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
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As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
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Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
Salam!
Then who was Ahmed ? and what revelation did he get ??
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DArgento
2146 Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it as they know their own children; and a group of them hides the truth while they know.
If masjid al haram = kaaba, 2146 becomes non-sense
Pitty then again, you read 2146 but forgot read 2145
Even if you show the followers of the scripture every kind of miracle, they will not follow your Qiblah. Nor shall you follow their Qiblah. They do not even follow each others' Qiblah. If you acquiesce to their wishes, after the knowledge that has come to you, you will belong with the transgressors
Read the verse carefully
Allah is telling Muhammad, even if he shows miracles to the followers of scriptures (Jews/Christians) they will not follow the Qibla assigned to Muhammad, This clearly means that the new Qibla is not liked by JEWS AND CHRISTIANS and also by SAMIA and AYMAN. "They do not follow each others Qibla" again stresses the neeed of One uniform Qibla for the Muslims/believers by ALLAH.
Allah Ho Akbar.
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Samia
Salaam Raj-ah
You can search all the sites of islam haters, being atheists, christians, jews...etc. Do you see that their problem with islam is their "qibla"? Be realistic.
What was the problem of the jews with Jesus? His qibla?Salaam Samia to you too.
YES! the KAABA is the sore of eye for the non believers. They want to NUke it; They want to destroy it. They want to get out the LOVE for MUhammad out of our hearts, and that will not Happen.
We are talking about when the verses were being revealed, read all of the SURAH 2, and you will understand what is it talking about.For example
The Jews said, "The Christians have no basis," while the Christians said, "The Jews have no basis." Yet, both of them read the scripture. Such are the utterances of those who possess no knowledge. GOD will judge them on the Day of Resurrection, regarding their disputes.
Even if you show the followers of the scripture every kind of miracle, they will not follow your Qiblah. Nor shall you follow their Qiblah. They do not even follow each others' Qiblah. If you acquiesce to their wishes, after the knowledge that has come to you, you will belong with the transgressors
Ask any Christian or Jew what is their focal point??
and offcourse it is not KAABA in MAKKAH, and "if you acquiesce to their wishes, after Muhammad has been assigned a new Qiblah, which he requested for then you are among transgressors"
the earlier you and ayman understand that the better it will be, life is too short.Allah Ho Akbar.
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Wakas
My request was quite simple. You said most of the questions I had asked had been answered by you on a thread. So I simply said link me to your specific answers or quote them so I can read them. You never did.
If you are sincere about discussing this, I do not mind you starting a new thread for us, and setting up the questions I asked and you posting the answers you gave so we can review it in one place. Once this is done, pm me.
Dear Wakas,
This needs toil, give me few days so I can search the thread "Who built the Kaaba that is in Mecca" and post the relevant parts out of it.Regarding your post about logic,
If some one discards some source and then uses it in support of his/her argument then this is no logic at all.For example Samia tells me that Islamic history is a crap and then she tells me According to Islamic history,this or that event took place, just to support her argument. Then surely fun will be made out of her post.
When she uses Islamic history to discard some one's argument who believes in Islamic history as authentic, then it is logically acceptable.
Hope I made it clear.
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Samia
Salaam Samia to you too.
YES! the KAABA is the sore of eye for the non believers. They want to NUke it; They want to destroy it. They want to get out the LOVE for MUhammad out of our hearts, and that will not Happen.Salaam Raj-ah
Is this official? When some terrorist muslims burn churches and synagogues, would you accept that it is "Muslims" who see this buildings as a threat to them?
Is it now about its walls and bricks? So you really do pray to it?
The Saudis also demolished it. I wonder if Muslims stopped praying or stayed without a qibla until it was reconstructed! The cubic room underwent many destructions and demolishons since it was first erected.The Jews said, "The Christians have no basis," while the Christians said, "The Jews have no basis." Yet, both of them read the scripture. Such are the utterances of those who possess no knowledge. GOD will judge them on the Day of Resurrection, regarding their disputes.
So jews are against christians and christians are against jews because of their qibla or because of an understanding of monotheism?
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Dear Raj-ah,
I know it might take a little time to organise the info for the thread, no problem, just pm me when done in case I miss it.
As to your comments on logic, let me repeat
A lesson in logic of The Quran
If person A believes in something (lets says traditional ahadith) and person B does not. Person B can still use traditional ahadith in their argument/discussion to disprove person A's position, e.g. by finding contradictions, inconsistancies, errors within traditional ahadith themselves etc.
This method is even cited in The Quran itself when those who disbelieve and doubt The Quran are asked to find an inconsistancy in The Quran or bring a chapter like The Quran etc.
You suggest since sister Samia discarded source ABC, she cannot use ABC. Look at the Quranic example, do you honestly think the disbelievers and doubters reverenced/accepted The Quran? No. They discarded it, yet were still asked to find an inconsistancy, bring a chapter like it etc using The Quran as their standard/source, even though they have discarded it / do not believe in it. Your point has no basis, unless you believe the disbelivers/doubters accepted The Quran and did not discard it, which would not make them disbelievers/doubters. Thus clearly, this will present a contradiction in your view.
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For example Samia tells me that Islamic history is a crap and then she tells me According to Islamic history,this or that event took place, just to support her argument. Then surely fun will be made out of her post.
Salaam Raj-ah
I am addressing you citing the evidence that you accept 100%. We may accept the same truth but with different evidences. Do you want me to say, e.g, according to archeological evidence, knowing that you don't take these evidences seriously if they contradict with your "islamic" sources? I had this experience with you in "Who built the ka'aba that's in Mecca" thread, when you discarded even reasoning for some nonesense uttered by an anonymous scholar, as your believing that Mecca is Faarraan , or that the meaning of "masjidan Diraaran in " means "a mosque called Zirar, or "a guy called Zirar built a mosque" because some "Muslim scholar" said so.
I agree that this room was, and still is, full of idols, but not because islamic history tells me that and there is no other evidence for it. It is because there is concrete evidence for that from the quraan and extra more reliable sources (more reliable than islamic history). If islamic history reports this, fine, but that still does not make it a reliable source, or a source of evidence per se for me to use.
Do you really need such explanation?
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Salaam Raj-ah
I agree that this room was, and still is, full of idols, but not because islamic history tells me that and there is no other evidence for it. It is because there is concrete evidence for that from the quraan and extra more reliable sources (more reliable than islamic history).
Do you really need such explanation?Would you please give evidence "from the Quran"?
What are those "more reliable source" ? -
Peace Allen,
Would you please give evidence "from the Quran"?
I thought this should be clear to any monotheist. The god tells us in the great reading that we shouldn't associate anything with him, including stone idols such as the ones in Mecca.
What are those "more reliable source" ?
How about your own eyes. Are your eyes reliable?
Look, here is idol #1 dressed and naked
http//img519.imageshack.us/img519/8065/2kabahdressft8.jpg
Here is idol #2. This is one ugly piece of filth isn't it?
http//img300.imageshack.us/img300/7017/6hajraswadlc7.jpg
Here is filthy idol #3
http//img180.imageshack.us/img180/2779/9maqamibrahimfq5.jpg
Don't let the golden cage fool you, from close up, it really stinks
http//img120.imageshack.us/img120/8995/92maqamibrahim1sj5.jpg
Here is idol #4, you know the one that morons believe "heals all ills"
http//www.sgs.org.sa/content/images/zam_pumping_system_of-_zamz.jpg
Not the flowing stream that you imagined is it?
You can empirically verify all of this with your own eyes.
Peace,
Ayman
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Would you please give evidence "from the Quran"?
What are those "more reliable source" ?Samia's statement is
I agree that this room was, and still is, full of idols, but not because islamic history tells me that and there is no other evidence for it. It is because there is concrete evidence for that from the quraan and extra more reliable sources (more reliable than islamic history).
What is the evidence from the Quran that this room was/is full of idols.you provide the proof.As far as your rest of pictures are concerned ,they show that you are just ignorant of concept of idols.
Please first provide the proof from the Quran that this room was full of idols.
Waiting for Proof from the Quran.
