a good Christian and a bad Muslim
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Bilal might have a chance in paradise for believing in one God. This does not look right if you look at their lives.
How do you know that Bilal didn't set-up partners?
I highlighted the key words in your statement.
Bilal believed in one God, almost all religions consider themselves monotheists. Nearly every religion is 'I am right and you are wrong!'
Now why is idolatry so blasphemous? Because it's falsehood. While the God is the truth.
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Believing in God and doing against His commands has one name in the quran setting partners with God.
Thanks every one for the informative replies.
Samia could you please support the above from Quranic verses. If you can prove the above than that might solve half of the puzzle.
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Thanks for the questions bro!
First things first, let's define muslim
4213 He has decreed for you the same system(deen) He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it." Intolerable for those who have set up partners is what you invite them towards. God chooses for Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent.
4143 What is being said to you is the same that was said to the messengers before you. Your Lord has forgiveness, and a painful retribution.
Abraham
2128 "Our Lord, and let us submit to You (muslimayni) and from our progeny a nation submitting to You (muslimatan), and show us our rites and forgive us; You are the Forgiving, the Merciful."
2132 And Abraham enjoined his sons and Jacob "O my sons, God has selected the system for you, so do not die except as ones who have submitted." (muslimoona)
Jacob
2133 Or were you present when death came to Jacob and he told his sons "Who shall you serve after I am gone?", they said "Your god, and the god of your fathers Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac; One god and to Him we submit."(muslimoona)2136 Say "We believe in God and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus, and what was given to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them and to Him we submit." ( muslimoona)
Jesus' Disciples
352 So when Jesus felt their rejection, he said "Who are my supporters to God?" The disciples said "We are God's supporters, we believe in God and we bear witness that we have submitted."( muslimoona)
Abraham
367 Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Nazarene, but he was a monotheist who submitted (musliman); he was not of those who set up partners.
The disciples
5111 "And I inspired the disciples that you shall believe in Me and My messenger; they said "We believe, and bear witness that we have submitted."" (muslimoona)
Moses' followers
7126 "And you are only seeking revenge on us because we believed in our Lord's signs when they came to us. Our Lord, provide us with patience, and let us die as submitters." (muslimeena)
Noah
1072 "But if you turn away, then I have not asked you for any reward, for my reward is with God. And I have been commanded to be of those who have submitted." (almuslimeena)
Moses
1084 And Moses said "O my people, if you believe in God, then put your trust in Him if you have submitted." (muslimeena)
Pharoh
1090 And We helped the Children of Israel cross the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers followed them out of hatred and animosity. But when he was certain to drown, he said "I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who have submitted."(almuslimeena)
Joseph
12101 "My Lord, You have given me sovereignty and taught me the interpretations of what is narrated. Initiator of the heavens and Earth, You are my protector in this world and the Hereafter. Let me die as one who has submitted (musliman), and join me with the good doers."
Solomon's letter to the queen
2731 ""Do not be arrogant toward me and come to me as submitters"" (muslimeena)
4914 The Arabs said "We believe." Say "You have not believed; but you should say 'We have submitted' (aslamna), for belief has not yet entered into your hearts." If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
Al-Quran speaks for itself on this issue. It's been the same 'religion' since the dawn of time 'till the end of time.
Note This isn't every occurrance of the word 'muslim' and the reader is reminded to verify everything he/she reads as per 1736
See also
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/peacefulness.htm
Clearly the word muslim as used in al-quran is not/can not possibly be a proper noun.
494 O you who believe, if you go forth in the cause of God, you shall investigate carefully. And do not say to those who greet you with peace "You are not a believer!" You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with God are many riches. That is how you were before, but God favored you, so investigate carefully. God is expert over what you do.
Another words no such thing as a 'peaceful disbeliever'; we are advised not to call anyone that's peaceful a 'disbeliever/rejecter'. What does that tell you?
When I have more time, I will cross-reference, and find out what are the traits of idol-worshipers.
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The first question you need to ask is 'What makes someone a submitting person (muslim)?'
The criteria of a submitting person (muslim) are belief in God along with the hereafter and lead a righteous life so if someone does not practice any of them then he is not a submitting person (muslim). It is as simple as that.
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Peace,
Okay here's what I came up with about Idolaters
296 They are obsessed with living extremely long lives.
2105 They wish ill-will towards believers..
3186 While believers face worldly tests; idolaters insult them
582 Jews and idolaters have great animosity towards believers, while christians/nazerenes are closer in affection.
622-23 Idolaters are asked about the partners they set up besides God (on judgement day) and they deny being idolaters swearing by God !.
6121 Obeying the devils (laws not authorized by God) = idolatry
6137 Their idols cause them to do atrocious things like killing their own children, inflicting great pain, and confusing the religion for them..
6148 They follow conjecture.
94 You are to be truthful and keep your word when dealing with idolaters, as long as they don't plan to attack.
95 If they refuse to uphold peace, we are to make war against them
96 However, if they come in peace, they should be allowed to be part of the group.
97 Again, exempted are those who are looking for peace.
917 Not to frequent God's temples; their works have fallen.
933 The religion of truth will prevail in spite of idolatry
936 Allowed to declare all-out war against idolaters if they declare all out war.
9107 They divide the believers, and lie about their intentions.
12106 Majority of the believers in God are idolaters
1635 They prohibit things not authorized by God, and distort the message of the messengers.
1686-87 Idolaters invent idols; Their idols disown them on judgment day.
2230 "So avoid the foulness of idols and avoid saying false statements."
3031-32 Splitting up the system/religion into sects is idolatry
3042 Idolaters dig their own grave (in the hereafter), so to speak.
3965 Idolatry cancels all works.
4213 They love to split up the system i.e. cause chaos
486 Their evil will come back to haunt them
981 They insist on their ways despite the proof.
Please verify it yourself. This is the message I saw in the respective verses/signs.
Why idolatry is unfair
3028
Khalifa
He cites for you herein an example from among yourselves Do you ever elevate your servants or subordinates to the level where they rival you, and to the point that you pay them as much allegiance as is being paid to you? We thus explain the revelations for people who understand.-Imran
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The first question you need to ask is 'What makes someone a submitting person (muslim)?'
The criteria of a submitting person (muslim) are belief in God along with the hereafter and lead a righteous life so if someone does not practice any of them then he is not a submitting person (muslim). It is as simple as that.
I will second that. Very good point.
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Peace
262
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.569
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.Of course this isnt talking about modern day Christians, because they practice shirk. They can say its a monothiestic religion but I can say the same by saying that I worship 1 God but with 4 aspects a father, a mother, a son, and a daughter. If I brought this up to even a trinitarian they would tell me that it was polytheistic yet that is exactly what they do. The Quran categorizes these people separately
572
Laqad kafara allatheena qaloo inna Allaha huwa almaseehu ibnu maryama waqala almaseehu ya banee isra-eela oAAbudoo Allaha rabbee warabbakum innahu man yushrik biAllahi faqad harrama Allahu AAalayhi aljannata wama/wahu alnnaru wama lilththalimeena min ansarin572
Certainly they disbelieve who say "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.We are also born with the natural instinct of God in us, I think that I can equate it to that of like the animals however we are able to choose whether to follow it or not, while the animals cannot choose and are always submitting to God in that fashion amongst others.
Same goes for this "muslim" that you are comparing/contrasting with the Christian. He is not a Muslim, it is only a name to him. Had he been a true Muslim, he would have followed the Quran. A lot of people are like this, be it Christian, Muslim, etc., its all a namesake. A true Christian actually follows monotheism, as stated in the above verses to attain paradise. Where this trinity comes in is all hearsay. You shouldn't need a book to know God. Even in this book called the New Testament, Jesus never claims such a divinity.
In all, judgements are done only by Allah, Al Hakeem Al Hakam.
Peace
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Peace
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Of course this isnt talking about modern day Christians, because they practice shirk. They can say its a monothiestic religion but I can say the same by saying that I worship 1 God but with 4 aspects a father, a mother, a son, and a daughter. If I brought this up to even a trinitarian they would tell me that it was polytheistic yet that is exactly what they do. The Quran categorizes these people separately
This concept of trinity /shirk was present even during the period when Quran was revealed.It is not something afterthought.
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This concept of trinity /shirk was present even during the period when Quran was revealed.It is not something afterthought.
A bit misunderstood; God and Holy Spirit really no difference and 3rd person in trinity was/is?
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
http//www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p2.htm495 Called in the Gospels "the mother of Jesus", Mary is acclaimed by Elizabeth, at the prompting of the Spirit and even before the birth of her son, as "the mother of my Lord".144 In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her Son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father's eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos).
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5116 And when All?h will say "O 's, son of Maryam! Did you say unto men 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides All?h?' "He will say "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right. Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden.
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A bit misunderstood; God and Holy Spirit really no difference and 3rd person in trinity was/is?
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
http//www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p2.htm495 Called in the Gospels "the mother of Jesus", Mary is acclaimed by Elizabeth, at the prompting of the Spirit and even before the birth of her son, as "the mother of my Lord".144 In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her Son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father's eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos).
(٦
5116 And when All?h will say "O 's, son of Maryam! Did you say unto men 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides All?h?' "He will say "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right. Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden.
What can be talked about persons who 'follow the Shaitaan" (number one ).
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Peace all,
- A PERSON CAN BELIEVE IN GOD AND STILL BE AN IDOLATER
12106 And most of them will not believe in God except while setting-up partners.
- BOTH BELIEF IN GOD AND GOOD DEEDS NECESSARY, NOT JUST ONE OF THEM
Progressive Muslims (en)
262 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
569 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.
Also see
225 262 282 2277 357 4122 4124 4173 569 593 104 109 1123 1329 1423 1697 179 182 1830 18107 1960 1996 2075 20112 2194 2214 2223 2250 2256 2455 2570 26227 2867 2880 297 299 2958 3015 3045 318 3219 3319 344 3437 357 3824 3828 3910 4058 418 4222 4223 4226 4521 4530 4620 472 4712 4829 649 6511 8425 8511 956 987 1033
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More opinions
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The first question you need to ask is 'What makes someone a submitting person (muslim)?'
The criteria of a submitting person (muslim) are belief in God along with the hereafter and lead a righteous life so if someone does not practice any of them then he is not a submitting person (muslim). It is as simple as that.
The difficulty occurs when considering the phrase "and leads a righteous life". Quran 2177 defines righteousness. Besides setting slaves free (how many Muslims/ Christians/ Hindu etc are financial supporters of Anti slavery International or other organisations that tackle modern day slavery issues?) the definition includes "and they observe the contact prayers " / "performs As-salat". There are considerable differences in interpretation of the meaning of the Arabic words aqaamas - salaata. Some see it as ritual prayers due to time frame requirements, ablution and actual names of prayers mentioned in Quran (Fajr, Al Wustaa, Isha) and some don't. If it is important to our salvation shouldn't there at least be a consensus what is salat?
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If it is important to our salvation shouldn't there at least be a consensus what is salat?
Nope, because consensus is useless in that it can be either right or wrong. The %age of people agreeing to something doesn't make it more right or more wrong. But I understand what you're saying.
Perhaps we are approaching salat from the wrong end. We are trying to disect it using cross-reference and etymology and whatever it is called that people do... and that is all good I think, because it can remove alot of falsehood and invented lies, however, maybe we can be guided towards doing salat by God even without knowing that it is salat we are doing. Perhaps we are too stuck up with the word sometimes. This might sound odd since the word is in the quran... but in the end, what is important is what we live/do in our lives and why... it is the output and intentions that matter.... not what we call it. As far as the word salat is concerned, I don't think there ever will be a consensus.
Also, our footprint on our own soul won't depend on our understanding of a word. We'll do what we feel i right, not what we think a word means...
Peace and best wishes.