Picture of the inside of the Ka'ba
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Peace ayani,
Not to start a debate or anything, but just for clarification - are you saying the cube, the grotto and the Bodhi Gaya are rites given by God to these people? ???
Technically yes, God guides and misguides.
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Peace OPF,
I'm talking about the verse quoted above.
It goes hand in hand. The person who God is communicating to is being informed that they are on the correct path.
Idols can never be correct.
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Peace ayani,
Not to start a debate or anything, but just for clarification - are you saying the cube, the grotto and the Bodhi Gaya are rites given by God to these people? ???
perhaps. though i'm neither Catholic nor Buddhist, i would not try myself to pass judgement on a Catholic who makes a pilgrimage to Lourdes or a Buddhist to Bodh Gaya. are these not rites to follow? the Quran does not ultimately condemn Christians, and is silent on many other faiths, e.g. Hinduism and Buddhism. God is the best of judges, and we are told that he will gather all people together, and judge between them.
569 ~ 2217
why couldn't these rites be from God? and if not, we are reminded not to argue or judge. 2267
peace ~ ayani
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the Quran does not ultimately condemn Christians, and is silent on many other faiths, e.g. Hinduism and Buddhism.
931; 2391 amongst others tell us about the message of monotheism and about different faiths comparatively. It's not about "ultimately condemning" something, it's about the right way and the wrong way...to make clear the two paths. If it contradicts a principle for example, there is obviously something wrong there.
So like OPF stated, idols can never be correct, and if these rites are not endorsed by God/are contradicting principles, then the message should be spread not argued. Discussion might be worthwhile because if there really is something wrong being followed, one shouldn't be neutral about it (leading to apathy maybe if done often enough?).
Regarding judgement, I believe the message has it covered...it's not in our hands, it's all in there and in God's hands, so to say. We should however, be capable of distinguishing right from wrong, leading to a series of judgement calls we are supposed to make many times before time runs out. Nowhere does this mean we should get to decide who is going to hell or is doomed etc but the actions/active elements present in our sphere which violate principles, must be judged as right or wrong for our benefit. peace
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are you saying the cube, the grotto and the Bodhi Gaya are rites given by God to these people? ???
perhaps. though i'm neither Catholic nor Buddhist, i would not try myself to pass judgement on a Catholic who makes a pilgrimage to Lourdes or a Buddhist to Bodh Gaya. are these not rites to follow? the Quran does not ultimately condemn Christians, and is silent on many other faiths, e.g. Hinduism and Buddhism. God is the best of judges, and we are told that he will gather all people together, and judge between them.
So God gave these rites to people go around a cube and bow down to idols and statues... that's all I needed to know. Thanks.
Peace ayani,
Not to start a debate or anything, but just for clarification...
...and if not, we are reminded not to argue or judge. 2267
PEACE. )
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perhaps. though i'm neither Catholic nor Buddhist, i would not try myself to pass judgement on a Catholic who makes a pilgrimage to Lourdes or a Buddhist to Bodh Gaya. are these not rites to follow? the Quran does not ultimately condemn Christians, and is silent on many other faiths, e.g. Hinduism and Buddhism. God is the best of judges, and we are told that he will gather all people together, and judge between them.
So God gave these rites to people go around a cube and bow down to idols and statues... that's all I needed to know. Thanks....and if not, we are reminded not to argue or judge. 2267
PEACE.
The problem is when we say things about people they do not say themselves. Nobody I have known ever said that the Ka'ba is a god, yet some accuse them of worshiping the Ka'ba. I have never heard a Muslim say this saint is God, but some here accuse them of that if they practice tawassul. Its an attitude like "shut up, don't lie, I know what you're doin, you can't fool me".
The people of Noah and Lot said that they don't believe God is one and they don't believe in judgement day. I have yet to hear anybody who is Sunni say that. Yet why is it that some here accuse them of believing that anyways?
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Peace,
i remember watching the movie "the nativity story", specifically the scene where Zachariah enters the temple. wherein there was an incense holder, some lamps, not much else. no idols, nothing fancy.
It's just a movie?
should we mock those who hold the Kaba to be a sacred place?
And who was mocking them now? I don't recall anyone saying anything pertaining to anyone's BELIEFS
I have yet to hear anybody who is Sunni say that. Yet why is it that some here accuse them of believing that anyways?
You do realize Satan is/was also a monotheist, also Pharaoh?
P.S. I am not accusing the sunnis or any persons or group(s) of anything.
God bless
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Peace Bigmo,
Was there a particular reason you copied and pasted my post and asked those questions? Did I mention anything about people worshipping the kaaba? ???
Please clarify. Thanks.
Not really. I have seen some raise that argument during the tawassul thread. I am not a good rememberer of names. I remember faces.
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What makes you so sure that the rites that people follow (Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists etc.) are actually sanctioned by God? It is easy to pick up (or isolate) a verse from the reading and use it to justify what people do.
Anwar Azim
my response is so?
i remember watching the movie "the nativity story", specifically the scene where Zachariah enters the temple. wherein there was an incense holder, some lamps, not much else. no idols, nothing fancy.
the Quran itself says for every nation We have made rites which they will fulfill. so do not let the matter fall into dispute. and call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight. (2267)
should we mock those who hold the Kaba to be a sacred place? would we do the same with Catholics who revere the grotto at Lourdes, or Buddhists who revere Bodhi Gaya?
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What makes you so sure that the rites that people follow (Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists etc.) are actually sanctioned by God? It is easy to pick up (or isolate) a verse from the reading and use it to justify what people do. By all means, please be crystal clear before you attribute to God about rites that people follow.
Anwar Azim
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What makes you so sure that the rites that people follow (Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists etc.) are actually sanctioned by God? It is easy to pick up (or isolate) a verse from the reading and use it to justify what people do.
Anwar Azim
of course i can not be sure, Anwar. but i can not know if another people's rites are not sanctioned by God or given by God. i did not mean to take the verse out of context, but to point out that diversity of rites and worship is something inherent to human diversity itself. we have the Quran as a criteria to judge and discern, and our own reasoning of course. but let's say i do get into an argument with a Sunni Muslim about the Kaba. will i try to convince them it is not what they believe it to be, and would they listen?
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of course i can not be sure, Anwar. but i can not know if another people's rites are not sanctioned by God or given by God. i did not mean to take the verse out of context, but to point out that diversity of rites and worship is something inherent to human diversity itself. we have the Quran as a criteria to judge and discern, and our own reasoning of course. but let's say i do get into an argument with a Sunni Muslim about the Kaba. will i try to convince them it is not what they believe it to be, and would they listen?
Peace,
No one has said you'll need to convince them or something, but rather you have right to have your opinion just as they have right to have their opinion.
To avoid debate is wrong because it's through debate that people might be able to get new insights. To throw dirt on eachother is just silly and of no use and it will take you nowhere.Maria
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Peace "bigmo" and all,
The problem is when we say things about people they do not say themselves. Nobody I have known ever said that the Ka'ba is a god, yet some accuse them of worshiping the Ka'ba. I have never heard a Muslim say this saint is God, but some here accuse them of that if they practice tawassul. Its an attitude like "shut up, don't lie, I know what you're doin, you can't fool me".
The people of Noah and Lot said that they don't believe God is one and they don't believe in judgement day. I have yet to hear anybody who is Sunni say that. Yet why is it that some here accuse them of believing that anyways?
JK- This is a joke, right? What does the Quran say?
The majority of those who believe in GOD do not do so without committing idol worship.
I think this concept should be very clear. And one can through proper and consistent analysis get to know whether people who claim to believe in one GOD only eg trinitarian chrtistians, whether they are not also committing shirk. The truth will then stand out clearly as always. GOD Bless! -
So, the inside of the Ka'ba is empty, huh? I didnt think there would be any statues inside (all the obvious reasons) - well, that's Submitters 1, Jack Chick 0.