Enforcing Laws?
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2256
There shall be no compulsion in religion the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.How can anyone (or State) enforce laws in the Quran when 2256 is so clear? Since the Quran and all its contents related to the religion, does that mean everything in the Quran shouldn't be enforced?
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quran should be the law.
making the laws more or less is wrong.
"the right way is now distinct from the wrong way"i understand the Quran can be consider the law, but my question is can one enforce it base on 2256? UNLESS religion is clearly define? Because the quran contain religious laws and according to verse 2256, religion cannot be force. So are they laws or choices? What should be enforce and what should be a choice etc?
Do anyone understand my question?
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peace
The only laws that should exist are the ones that prevent people from harming each other (or possibly a rule EVERYONE agrees to).
The quran is talking about religion. Religion is an individual matter, not something that involves other people. Religion is about morality (I think...I hope). You cannot enforce morality. You cannot make people be nice to each other, you can't put an asshole in jail. You can't punish a person for believing that Michael Jackson is the second coming of Christ.
Unless people harm others, what they believe, the way they act, is entirely up to them.I think the quran gives us religious laws AND (I dont know what to call them) societal laws. For example, the punishment for zina. You have to enforce a ban on pornography (taking zina to mean porn here).
So I'm not really sure what the quran means by that. -
It is not religion but deen and the verse itself makes it clear enough that since right has been made distinct from wrong, then people should follow what is right.
The verse also states a tautology, there genuinely is no compulsion in deen, there is no physical law restraining us from either good or bad. Deen is the whole shebang, not religion, not a personal matter.
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I think the quran gives us religious laws AND (I dont know what to call them) societal laws. For example, the punishment for zina. You have to enforce a ban on pornography (taking zina to mean porn here).
So I'm not really sure what the quran means by that.That was my understanding but i realize the Quran doesn't really make those distinction between society laws and morality laws. Unless someone can prove it does make such a distinction. OR unless we believe what should be enforce is all that GOD describe specific punishement for (ex. zina)? But even if we apply that rule, it is us that apply it that way, not the Quran. am im wrong?
So the question remain, can anything actually be enforce as law in the Quran? And what the Quran tell us to enforce (ex zina), should that be consider part of the religion?
I think if we were a society of believers, the law would be enforced upon all (law for theft, adultry etc.) I think stuff like prayer, fasting and charity are for the believers of the religion.
aalmakto, i was thinking that, but its we who are making these distinction, not the Quran. Unless someone can prove it other wise.
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Deen is the whole shebang, not religion, not a personal matter.
i think we are making Deem a personal matter, but according to the Quran, everything within it as part of the deem (of religion as I call it) (933).
I understanding the concept of separating "chruch from state", personal matter of religion from the law of the land. But I wanted someone to prove in the Quran this as true (because i can find it). because technically, there is no separation with regards to the quran and religion from the state and personal matters. and if it isnt such a separation, what can we enforce?
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Peace all,
There is no compulsion in the obligation/deen, i.e. in an islamic/peaceful society, everyone is allowed to practice their own religion or religious system, be it atheism, polytheism, idolatery etc, and there is no punishment in this life for not following the obligation/deen of monotheism or setting up partners with The God or not doing good deeds like charity, helping the poor, widows, orphans, needy etc.
Not doing good deeds is not the same as doing harmful deeds that harm the society. For example, one may not be doing good deeds, but at the same time not harming others either. The qur'aanic laws and punishments, are only formulated to protect and safeguard fundamental human rights and human interactions in a society. When one harms others in the society, for example killing others without just cause (i.e. other than self defense), stealing, committing pornography etc., then one is violating other's fundamental human rights and is to be punished according to the qur'aanic law.
These laws, however, can be implemented effectively only when a true islamic legal society based on The God's message is in existence, which unfortunately is not the case currently anywhere in the world.
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It is not religion but deen and the verse itself makes it clear enough that since right has been made distinct from wrong, then people should follow what is right.
The verse also states a tautology, there genuinely is no compulsion in deen, there is no physical law restraining us from either good or bad. Deen is the whole shebang, not religion, not a personal matter.
okay yeah that's well put. I agree.
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Not doing good deeds is not the same as doing harmful deeds that harm the society. For example, one may not be doing good deeds, but at the same time not harming others either. The qur'aanic laws and punishments, are only formulated to protect and safeguard fundamental human rights and human interactions in a society. When one harms others in the society, for example killing others without just cause (i.e. other than self defense), stealing, committing pornography etc., then one is violating other's fundamental human rights and is to be punished according to the qur'aanic law.
can you provide verses to support this understanding? because to me, this is the understanding we (humans) are applying to the Quran, isolating religious laws from society laws. however, i dont thing this is support in the Koran. can someone provide verses? it not like i disagree with you (because i agree with your position), but i dont know if it is "Quranically" supported.
Also, does that mean laws that requires public punishment in the Quran should not be considered or included in verse 2256?
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Peace SHM,
53 Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system/deen for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted submission/islam as the system/obligation/deen for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
From the above
ISLAM/submission = DEEN/system/obligation
The context is religious laws of forbidden foods.
2256 There is no compulsion in the system/obligation/deen; the proper way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, then he has grasped the most solid branch that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower.
From the above, no compulsion in deen/obligation.
Combining the two, no compulsion in submission to God. Thus no compulsion in following religious laws such as forbidden foods, with no punishment in this life for eating forbidden foods.
Now, if we study all the signs dealing with worldly punishments, we see that those punishments are only for violating some kind of fundamental human rights, or when one harms others in the society; for example stealing, murder, pornography etc.
Hence, al-qur'aan differentiates religious laws (such as forbidden foods, dress codes, forbidden relations, inheritance laws, ribaa etc.) for which no punishment in this life for violation, from the social laws (stealing, murder, pornography etc.) for which there is punishment in this life for violation.
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Peace SHM,
53 Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system/deen for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted submission/islam as the system/obligation/deen for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
From the above
ISLAM/submission = DEEN/system/obligation
The context is religious laws of forbidden foods.
2256 There is no compulsion in the system/obligation/deen; the proper way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, then he has grasped the most solid branch that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower.
From the above, no compulsion in deen/obligation.
Combining the two, no compulsion in submission to God. Thus no compulsion in following religious laws such as forbidden foods, with no punishment in this life for eating forbidden foods.
Now, if we study all the signs dealing with worldly punishments, we see that those punishments are only for violating some kind of fundamental human rights, or when one harms others in the society; for example stealing, murder, pornography etc.
Hence, al-qur'aan differentiates religious laws (such as forbidden foods, dress codes, forbidden relations, inheritance laws, ribaa etc.) for which no punishment in this life for violation, from the social laws (stealing, murder, pornography etc.) for which there is punishment in this life for violation.
I will second that. The issue of punishment in the Koran is made for social reasons. All societies has that. The Koran guided the prophet to establish that community and enforce a social order that was relevant to them to establish stability and order and security. This however was not the religious duty of the prophet as the Koran clearly laid that that his duty was to only preach and warn. Circumstances led him to govern a community of followers. This however is a wordly necessity and not religious by nature. All prophets and messengers preached but few governed and ruled. Their religious mission that they were sent for was preaching and warning and providing an example for others. As far as the religious orders, they are relevant to us all and are an individual matter. Hence there is no contradiction.
A good example is the Koran did not seperate between slaves and free men or gender when it came to religious issues. All have the same obligations and all will be judged. However, in some social issues it did since this is how societies were legally set up and this was the social custom of the time. In modern times societies are still divided by citizenship and national borders and international agreements. A citizen may have some rights not afforded to other citizens. A person on a visit visa has a seperate legal criteria than one on an employment visa and so on. In the USA and state resident is seperated in some legal issues from an out of state citizen also, such as college tuition fees and certain taxes and certain financial assiatnce. However all humans have the same religious obligation and responsibilities in Islam.
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Peace SHM,
53 Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system/deen for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted submission/islam as the system/obligation/deen for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
From the above
ISLAM/submission = DEEN/system/obligation
The context is religious laws of forbidden foods.
2256 There is no compulsion in the system/obligation/deen; the proper way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, then he has grasped the most solid branch that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower.
From the above, no compulsion in deen/obligation.
Combining the two, no compulsion in submission to God. Thus no compulsion in following religious laws such as forbidden foods, with no punishment in this life for eating forbidden foods.
Now, if we study all the signs dealing with worldly punishments, we see that those punishments are only for violating some kind of fundamental human rights, or when one harms others in the society; for example stealing, murder, pornography etc.
Hence, al-qur'aan differentiates religious laws (such as forbidden foods, dress codes, forbidden relations, inheritance laws, ribaa etc.) for which no punishment in this life for violation, from the social laws (stealing, murder, pornography etc.) for which there is punishment in this life for violation.
Yep... makes sense to me, too.