Let me get this straight: are traditionalists disbelievers or not?
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Peace Roshan,
To "associate" is not bad by itself; I am now associating concepts with words, and associating these words to make sentences, and associating sentences with ideas... Association is one of the strongest capacities of humans, which helped us develop over the ages.
Now, for associating a thing with the god the creator, like me considering a chair as divine and praying to it hoping that it will help me in some situation would be stupid, I will not use it to sit on it if I am tired and it would hurt my feelings seeing others sitting on their chairs, which could result in an unexpected reaction from me towards people using their chair, and would cause me much trouble for nothing, just a false belief, and my life would be a living hell.
You can see that I would be acting out of the laws of this reality because a chair cannot be the creator. It is really as simple as that. You can see it in whatever religion you take all have some divine things, be it an object, a person, an idea. It is like considering the washing machine and its inventor as the same, it is indeed the worst misconception one can have, which prevents any further spiritual and material developement.
Many people know or believe there is a creator, but they go on further associating a thing from the creation with the creator, and that is the problem. And the worst are the people inventing such ideas of divinity of things and dragging the others with them into hell. One has to get his associations straight or straighten his relations, so to have a clearer view of this reality and elevate himself.
So YES a "mushrik billah" in the context of "al-quran" is one who associates a thing with the god.
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So far, no one has answered my inquiry. Everybody has beaten around the bush. -(
Peace Tarikh,
I believe people here are trying to avoid being judgmental and divisive which is perhaps a respectable stance, but can lead to permanent vascillation. I'm not sure it's the attitude God intended for the believers, but each to his own. I will tell you this; I consider myself to have been a Mushriq before; following Hadeeth and the opininions of Imams which is precicely Shirk. Hamd'Ullah I was saved from that!! hail
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I don't think it's fair to ask such a question to start with. It is only God who judges. Only He knows what's deep down in everyone's heart. People far away on Islands with no technology and no books believe in what? are they all going to hell? it's not for us to say!
No one knows how long they're going to live, but you have your whole life to find a path. God gives signs and chances to people.
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peace
well they can't be called 'disbelievers' since they do believe in God, i just don't know why they call us names and make a big deal about us not following hadith or why quranaloners make a big deal about them following hadith, it's not like they're setting up partners with God, neither are we, so why all this fighting/arguing? isn't it more important that we believe in God and last day and do good works?
569 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve
I consider myself to have been a Mushriq before; following Hadeeth and the opininions of Imams which is precicely Shirk.
how is following hadith or imams shirk?
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Peace nerspi, sorry to say this, but you haven't understood a thing about what God alone is. And to reply to the question about those who are far away in the islands, well i'm on an island yet i came to God alone thru an inborn monotheist intuition after being a traditionalist. Now what about aborigenes who live in the forest? R K got it right. We are born into such and such tribe or community according to our previous deeds in the 1st life or life before being born on earth. God chose some souls to be born as aborigenes and thus to be deprived of guidance. That's maybe cause in the 1st life, they were wicked, otherwise God would be unjust and God is never unjust.
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Peace nerspi, followin hadith is a great tragedy, it means you are not accepting God's book alone. Hadith are sometimes contradictory with quran. Shall we follow what men invented instead of what God decreed? Muslims execute adulterers by stoning them. Isn't that murder? Who said they have to be stoned to death? Hadith writers. If you believe in such hadith and participate in the stoning, aren't you a transgressor?
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Koran says follow Gospel and Torah and they are filled with hadiths.
Quran says follow gospel and torah, not hearsay of humans. Stating, that the true gospel and torah have no hearsay.
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For me i feel like the "traditionalists" don't take the Quran seriously. Like when God says that Quran is complete perfect, they keep thinking that there are divine revelations outside the Quran. Like when i say to a friend "but God say that quran is complete perfect" he says "well ok but you need hadith in order to explain the quran, because it's from the prophet ect..." but then why taking as a ruling hadiths "qudsi" as divine laws like stonning or how to pray or how to do hajj?
Or quoting the hadith instead of ayats of the quran, like when the friend said "prophet prohibited women to wear pants"
Well God says in the quran that women shouldn't show their beauties, their forms, to cover the torso...
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"but then why taking as a ruling hadiths "qudsi" as divine laws like stonning or how to pray or how to do hajj?
Hadith qudsi has no role in any law making. In fact, it's void of any rules or punishment. Just spritual. And beautiful.
Well God says in the quran that women shouldn't show their beauties, their forms, to cover the torso...
Torso? confused
And this becomes pants are forbidden!!!
How about tight skirts? Will that make skirts forbidden? -
Hadith qudsi has no role in any law making. In fact, it's void of any rules or punishment. Just spritual. And beautiful.
Torso? confused
And this becomes pants are forbidden!!!
How about tight skirts? Will that make skirts forbidden?No, that makes hats forbidden.
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Hadith qudsi has no role in any law making. In fact, it's void of any rules or punishment. Just spritual. And beautiful.
Torso? confused
And this becomes pants are forbidden!!!
How about tight skirts? Will that make skirts forbidden?Mhh, my friend at school used the word qudsi, what i meant is hadith considered from God or considered has hidden revelation.
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How about tight skirts? Will that make skirts forbidden?
If a women is wearing tight skirt and looking good... mashaAllah,.. its perfectly halal and if she is looking horrible...estaghfirullah,... it should be forbidden!
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Torso? confused
And this becomes pants are forbidden!!!
How about tight skirts? Will that make skirts forbidden?Also, not torso cleavage. ;D I forgot the word when i posted this.
2431 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent, and let them put forth their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those committed to them by oath, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.
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Peace Nerspi,
"how is following hadith or imams shirk?" It is setting up sources of law other than God, who is the Sole Lawgiver. This is one of the main reasons why sects have arisen. Just look at the s.c. "four schools of Islam", the initiators of which branded each other with the worst of names, that they wouldn't even use for the Kaafirun.