Is it a Sin to Download music, books or movies from the Internett?
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G'day,
Peace nazz,You're sure of this? You know of Tivo, right?So if there's 10 songs on a CD, I can record one, right?... strictly for research. And that's the point that's being made here. Just because they wrote that, doesn't make it a 'sin' (Check title of the thread).
I think we have reached that point of 'agreeing to disagree', what do you think? )On the contrary, I think we have come full circle to what my earlier post asserted
I think the simple question to ask is It is wrong to take something you are not entitled to take?
The next question is then What are we entitled to take? And the simple answer Whatever we have express permission to take.
And the followup question What if we don't have express permission? The simple answer Then we should ask for permission.
If beforehand you know permission has been denied, then that's that. Respect the wishes of others. Simple.Basically speaking, if someone requests you to refrain from doing something, do you respect their wishes or give them the finger? Right or Wrong? A "sin"? or just bad character?
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if someone doesnt want you to download music illegally why would you do it???
because you like his music? the music of a greedy person? want to listen to someone like that?music is art, and art is shared with everyone. whoevers makes it a business should get a real job, damn hippies.
peace
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Peace, i just cant believe that we got people here who are insisting on calling illegal, legal. Theft is theft. If you think some artist is greedy, do like me, boycott. No one is forcing anyone to buy. Here, pirates have made millions of dollars selling pirated dvds, so how does yr robin hood theory fit in their success. How does art fit into that? Rules and laws are here and nothing in quran says that it is NOT a sin to download pirated stuff. If all artists gave away their art on the false pretence that art is universal(that's true, but..) then how would they survive? If all doctors said to save a life should be done freely, who would spend so much money and time to study, only to work freely? Sure, doctors and artists should not overcharge, but dont they deserve a little reward for their effort? Or should they produce songs just for people to download freely? Recognise that art is not free. It takes a lot of effort to produce art work.
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Peace all,
Theft is theft
What are you stealing exactly? Seriously... lets try and think about it without the preconceptions. Don't get me wrong, I buy my music from iTunes all the time. But I'm asking this, what you the artist have missed if you downloaded his/her song. You wouldn't have bought it otherwise! You used your internet, your equipment and your blank media. What have you STOLEN? How are you a thief? If somehow you've stolen the music/song... then you stole it by listening to the radio!G'day,
On the contrary, I think we have come full circle to what my earlier post asserted
Basically speaking, if someone requests you to refrain from doing something, do you respect their wishes or give them the finger? Right or Wrong? A "sin"? or just bad character?
Okay, let's continue then. If someone asks me to refrain from doing something, and I still do it, how is that a sin again? ??? How is that against God's law? Let's move to the next level and provide a verse or two. (Bear in mind what I just said above)
music is art, and art is shared with everyone. whoevers makes it a business should get a real job, damn hippies.
peacebravo
peace
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Theft =/= Copying. Theft is taking away from one hand and feeding another. Selling pirated material is 100% theft. Copying, is a grey area.
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Peace,
Let's remember the God is Rich, praiseworthy (5724). He doesn't need anything from us. That means that what is a 'sin/harm' is because it's to our detriment, as a society. Now what is harmful about copying/sharing music? Stealing implies one is taking something by force, and/or for monetary gains. If one is doing neither, is it still stealing?
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Theft =/= Copying. Theft is taking away from one hand and feeding another. Selling pirated material is 100% theft. Copying, is a grey area.
Selling pirated material is theft. I agree 100%. handshake
Peace,
Let's remember the God is Rich, praiseworthy (5724). He doesn't need anything from us. That means that what is a 'sin/harm' is because it's to our detriment, as a society. Now what is harmful about copying/sharing music? Stealing implies one is taking something by force, and/or for monetary gains. If one is doing neither, is it still stealing?
Good points, and I think it's difficult to convey this message. Some people believe this is stealing. If I stole a slice of bread and ate it without paying, sure, I can call that stealing, even though I didn't sell it. But I took something, and now there's something missing from the bread-maker/seller.
Peace.
PS - I just remembered there was a member here who actually believed his posts were not to be copied or kept if he left because they were his property! D
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Hi everyone,
From my perspective as a programmer, if I spent days working on some code or a website and someone just copied it in a couple of seconds. I would be pretty annoyed because it does take effort to write even though it is just 0s and 1s (computer language) at the end of the day. Even if they didn't make money from my code, I might have been charging for a license to use it and thats loss of income.
I think Lobster had a good post when he mentioned the Law of Universality. Which means a good way to see if an action was good or not was to imagine if everyone in the world was doing it.
Peace
Al
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Hi everyone,
From my perspective as a programmer, if I spent days working on some code or a website and someone just copied it in a couple of seconds. I would be pretty annoyed because it does take effort to write even though it is just 0s and 1s (computer language) at the end of the day. Even if they didn't make money from my code, I might have been charging for a license to use it and thats loss of income.
I think Lobster had a good post when he mentioned the Law of Universality. Which means a good way to see if an action was good or not was to imagine if everyone in the world was doing it.
Peace
Al
Exactly.
The quran instructs us to give full measure, and full measure is a = b, not b = 0 or b = a + 5% APR.
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Peace all
I asked Edip about this issue a while back and his answer seemed very reasonable to me.
To sum up he said/suggested that if the item is important enough that had the an alternative way not been available to obtain the item that you would go out and buy it, then one should not copy/download/do anything illegal to attain it because then you are preventing yourself from purchasing a version which would have benefited financialy the artist, record company or anyone who was involved in the making and producing.
But if you wouldn't buy the CD if there was no alternative way of getting it, then possible you would not be damaging the artist as you would not have bought the CD anyway but you downloaded as it was convinient.
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Peace aalmakto,
You make an interesting case. I have some questions, out of curiousity...
From my perspective as a programmer, if I spent days working on some code or a website and someone just copied it in a couple of seconds. I would be pretty annoyed because it does take effort to write even though it is just 0s and 1s (computer language) at the end of the day.
Do you believe something was stolen from you?.. that you've been robbed? If they weren't going to buy the software anyway, do you think somehow it would have 'lessened' your work? What if you wrote the program and spent months on it, and no one bought it (plus no one downloaded it) at all... would you still be annoyed? What if you sold 10 million copies, and one guy downloaded without paying, would you still be "annoyed"?I might have been charging for a license to use it and thats loss of income.
How do you figure that? ??? Remember, we're talking about a guy who couldn't afford the software or code, and wasn't going to buy one. So how have you LOST INCOME?Peace
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But if you wouldn't buy the CD if there was no alternative way of getting it, then possible you would not be damaging the artist as you would not have bought the CD anyway but you downloaded as it was convinient.
I think if we're talking about it being a sin, then it should be wrong either way. I mean I totally understand that theory, there are songs I've been willing to buy but they are not available in the U.S. Even through online stores. But again, if it applies to the first case, it should apply to the second.
peace
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Peace aalmakto,
You make an interesting case. I have some questions, out of curiousity... )Do you believe something was stolen from you?.. that you've been robbed? If they weren't going to buy the software anyway, do you think somehow it would have 'lessened' your work? What if you wrote the program and spent months on it, and no one bought it (plus no one downloaded it) at all... would you still be annoyed? What if you sold 10 million copies, and one guy downloaded without paying, would you still be "annoyed"?How do you figure that? ??? Remember, we're talking about a guy who couldn't afford the software or code, and wasn't going to buy one. So how have you LOST INCOME?
Peace )
Rich enough to afford an internet connection, placing yoiu in the upper 3% of the world's population? Rich enough to pay full measure. Period.
Either way, you'll reap what you sow.
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Well you can't buy the 800 or 1000 dolars or more programs. But that is for pros. -\ So no need for me, for example, to download adobe after effects if i don't plan to use it on a big project, i could get the personal edition or somekind of study edition.
What about dead artists?
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By the way, with regards to pirating software, there is NO EXCUSE whatsoever. There is an entire body of free, open-source software from GNU from OSes to calculators for as long as PCs were relevant.
Can't say I'm innocent, but I'm migrating ASAP.
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Also there is a little thing that bugs me when you buy a copy of windows or whatever, you supposedly can't even share it with your brother or dad, he has to get another copy. I wonder if it's still the case with vista, but i remenber seeing apple giving something like 3 or 4 liscences for their OS when you buy one. Here i found it http//store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=F4F31E5&fnode=home&nplm=MB022Z/A
It's not as overpriced as vista, and you get 5 liscences.
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Peace aalmakto,
You make an interesting case. I have some questions, out of curiousity... )Do you believe something was stolen from you?.. that you've been robbed? If they weren't going to buy the software anyway, do you think somehow it would have 'lessened' your work? What if you wrote the program and spent months on it, and no one bought it (plus no one downloaded it) at all... would you still be annoyed? What if you sold 10 million copies, and one guy downloaded without paying, would you still be "annoyed"?How do you figure that? ??? Remember, we're talking about a guy who couldn't afford the software or code, and wasn't going to buy one. So how have you LOST INCOME?
Peace )
Peace Zenje
Hypothetically, if someone took my work without paying the price I have set, then I think that would be stealing. OPF mentioned opensource work, which is exactly how I would license my code if I wanted to give it away. But people still try and make money from opensource by offering services (help manuals, consulting, releasing books) etc. so the motives are not always 100% altruistic. I am not familiar with the phrase work being "lessened by piracy". I guess it has to do with motive, if the motive is to advance the artform, then the author should be pleased that people are downloading it. But if the motive for creating the work was to make a living, then the situation is different. Ultimately, if the person can't afford my software, he/she can code it themselves. Buying code pays the programmer for the time, marketing, logic spent on designing the program.hope this makes sense yes
Al