Do we indirectly encourage murder?
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Peace,
The quraan says "As for those whom the angels take in death while they are wronging themselves, saying to them What were you doing? They say "we were oppressed/helpless". They (angels) say Was not the earth of God spacious enough for you to emigrate therein"?
Exactly what I thought of too; when thinking about this. That sign/verse was the source of my guilt.
when so many tax dollars go to feed the poor and all.
Not a hell of a lot. Much of the govt. money goes to the rich. Lobbyists pay the politicians, the politicians return the favor. The govts. don't give a damn about the poor. And we've got Cancer societies, diabetes societies with ties to food manufacturers, candy companies etc..Capitalism (or democracy)is such a failed system because it's all about making money.
I guess not all that is limited to the federal income tax (because there are so many other taxes too). But 50% of our taxes go to the Military industrial complex (if you are an American anyway).
I mean we pay the toll tax, vehicle registration tax, gasoline tax...Is there a way to win here? I could refuse to pay the federal income tax and then be jailed and have all my belongings taken away yet I still will be paying the other taxes regardless.
I thought of such questions myself, but the Quran tells us that we are only going to be held responsible for our own deeds, there is no such thing as vicarious liability in Islam, if i sold a person a knife and he kills someone, its not my fault and I wont be held accountable by God on the day of judgement, I can honestly say that when I pay my taxes I had hoped my elected officials would do good with it and help those that need help, if they do otherwise then it will be upon them as a burden to bear soon.
I agree with that, but aren't we supposed to be showing the good example? And fighting against oppression/terror/evil?
If I was in a financial status to move I would immediately give a precious life-style for perhaps more adversity and hardship in a place like Norway (apparently world's most peaceful and educated nation)
One thing I really don't like is how you have to 'immigrate' to the countries. It's God's earth dammit!
Thank you for your responses. peace
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Well DA,
Not a hell of a lot. Much of the govt. money goes to the rich. Lobbyists pay the politicians, the politicians return the favor. The govts. don't give a damn about the poor.
don't we need government's then?
How about like the sheikh's or president Mushariff and all? would you like that type of rule instead Br?
God Bless.
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The problem is where to immigrate?
How about up north? To Canada!
No death penalty in Canada, freedom of speech protected in the constitution, no troops occupying Iraq, lower crime rate than the U.S. , better income distribution, universal health care for all, longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality. Canadian cities are also ranked one of the best places to live, Vancouver for example has been voted the most livable city in the world 2 years ago.
Been thinking about migrating there myself..
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Peace all,
Canada is not completely free from that problem either, they were part of the 'alliance' in the 'war on terror' in Afghanistan. As for the IRS (and the federal reserve) are in the business of making money, they just don't care how they go about it. And the U.S. borrows money from China and Japan to fund the billions of dollars to fund the war, so are the chinese indirectly encourage murder?
peace
PS - If anyone still hasn't watched the documentary America Freedom to Fascism, I would highly recommend you do so. )
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Peace,
don't we need government's then?
How about like the sheikh's or president Mushariff and all? would you like that type of rule instead Br?
God Bless.
We can have a government. How about the PEOPLE vote for legislations; all of them. And NOT 'elected' leaders based on the moronic electoral system. I mean 70% of the US is against the war, 40% wants Bush impeached (that would be higher than Clinton btw) over 56% have no faith in the government.
One step at a time bro... I am not saying the US is the worst place to live, it's not. There are many places that are better and many places that are worse. Is it in the top 5? No. Do some research and the US is behind the European countries in medicine, crime, freedom, economy etc... It's just the hypocrisy and the lies that are sickening. I just don't believe in giving one man or the governing body that much power. Especially one that doesn't follow any of the laws (constitution). You know the fascinating thing is the founding fathers of the US warned of this.
And the U.S. borrows money from China and Japan to fund the billions of dollars to fund the war, so are the chinese indirectly encourage murder?
Good point. We do know china and the US are far from allies. Isn't there like a 100 countries in Iraq?
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peace brother DA, all,
Good question. It is a good sign that you are asking yourself this, as I have in the past. I hope this will count in our favour.
A few points from my perspective for me it's a bit like having to choose "the lesser of two evils" because the only way that I can see to confidently eliminate this aspect of indirect funding from my life is to live basically like a nomad, doing basic labour-type jobs (as these are usually untaxed) to earn a living. Well, either that or live off benefits (not ideal) or go to jail leading to a restricted life (again, not ideal), even though sometimes it feels like I do live in a jail. With only these options, whilst perhaps possible to do, would greatly limit (in my view) the positive contributions I can make (to people/world/etc) so the way I see it if I do accumulate "sin" from choosing to do what I do I will strive to cancel out any "sin" with good deeds and ask God to forgive me for the rest. The odds are in our favour it seems, as good deeds are multiplied. D
At present, I try to limit how much I pay in tax as much as I can. I have been fortunate enough to have my own company and the UK tax system is not built to tax a company whose primary interests do not lie in making money. D
So my advice would be to minimise your participation in any negative activity, directly or indirectly, and maximise your participation in positive activity, directly or indirectly, and leave the rest to God.
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You mean the same so called 'islamic' countries that can't wait to kiss America's you know what ?
Either the rear end or a JDAM ;D
It's nice and comfy on this side, thank you very much.
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Quran makes its stance on state corruption very clear. Emigration. Presumably nobody is held accountable for other people's sins, but in this world, you get what you pay for.
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I should have added, what I said probably works for all tax systems, not just the UK.
e.g. a company can engage in "loss-making" ventures (feeding the poor, community projects, media/resource distribution, donate to charity etc) resulting in less profit to tax, so if you own a company, basically run all your zkw/betterment activity through it.
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Peace DArgento, all,
As a tax-paying American am I indirectly supporting murder by paying my taxes, the same taxes that finance these wars?
I had this same dilemma a while back and in discussing it with a former member, he suggested I become a sovereign entity
I chose not to go that route and weigh what was really at stake. In the real world of shades of gray, nothing is really as simple as "just emigrate" or "don't pay your taxes". Everything has a consequence and unfortunately, not paying taxes puts you in jail, emigrating puts you in a foreign country, and both keep you from helping your loved ones - morally, financially, and spiritually.If you're flying solo, then it's easy to fly under the radar and land in Costa Rica or Belize or somewhere less "visible". There you can be an inactive member of worshipdom.
But if you have roots that need watering, then I'd say do your best to contribute as little as possible to the system financially, and as much as possible to reform. It's been said and pretty well-documented that income tax never finds it's way back to the American people, but right into the pockets of the privately owned Federal Reserve. Ron Paul seems to have a bead on that so we really should be doing all we can to spread his gospel. And Wakas' suggestion of having your own business is, imo, really the only way to truly control your own financial output. That combined with precise donating and charity seems, to me, to be a great recipe and the make-up of a "good-doer".
If you work for someone, unfortunately the money's dissected and handed out before your portion ever reaches you. However, a seasoned gymnastic accountant can do well to get a good chunk of that back for you - and then you pump that money into goodwill. I believe in the year 2000, Wachovia Bank actually got a few million dollars back from the IRS as it claimed a loss, yet still managed to increase it's stock value and post record earnings. Tax shelters, go figure.
Peace,
Tay
