Let me get this straight: are traditionalists disbelievers or not?
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"but then why taking as a ruling hadiths "qudsi" as divine laws like stonning or how to pray or how to do hajj?
Hadith qudsi has no role in any law making. In fact, it's void of any rules or punishment. Just spritual. And beautiful.
Well God says in the quran that women shouldn't show their beauties, their forms, to cover the torso...
Torso? confused
And this becomes pants are forbidden!!!
How about tight skirts? Will that make skirts forbidden? -
Hadith qudsi has no role in any law making. In fact, it's void of any rules or punishment. Just spritual. And beautiful.
Torso? confused
And this becomes pants are forbidden!!!
How about tight skirts? Will that make skirts forbidden?No, that makes hats forbidden.
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Hadith qudsi has no role in any law making. In fact, it's void of any rules or punishment. Just spritual. And beautiful.
Torso? confused
And this becomes pants are forbidden!!!
How about tight skirts? Will that make skirts forbidden?Mhh, my friend at school used the word qudsi, what i meant is hadith considered from God or considered has hidden revelation.
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How about tight skirts? Will that make skirts forbidden?
If a women is wearing tight skirt and looking good... mashaAllah,.. its perfectly halal and if she is looking horrible...estaghfirullah,... it should be forbidden!
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Torso? confused
And this becomes pants are forbidden!!!
How about tight skirts? Will that make skirts forbidden?Also, not torso cleavage. ;D I forgot the word when i posted this.
2431 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent, and let them put forth their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those committed to them by oath, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.
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Peace Nerspi,
"how is following hadith or imams shirk?" It is setting up sources of law other than God, who is the Sole Lawgiver. This is one of the main reasons why sects have arisen. Just look at the s.c. "four schools of Islam", the initiators of which branded each other with the worst of names, that they wouldn't even use for the Kaafirun.
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peace
what about other laws, country laws, trafic laws, company laws... ? we follow those laws, is that shirk?
sometimes friends or teachers in school tell you to do something for them... is it shirk to obey them?and several hf (hadith followers) told me that they don't consider anything or anyone equal to God, so how could they be commiting shirk? ok maybe they do do it they just don't know it.
but what is shirk really? what is considered shirk? how can we know we're not commiting shirk unintentionally?
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So guys, finally, what is yr real position concerning traditionalists? Bear in mind that this site itself has articles such as 'why do muslims lose?' or 'warning to our loved ones'
[/quotePeace Tarikh
Here is the ruling of God"And whoever does not judge by what Allah revealed, then they are Kafirun." (Surat Al-Maidah, Ayah 44). Who are we to disagree? giveup -
Peace,
Lol, but kafiruns!!!!???
Yeah let me get this straight, You can only fool yourself and other people to some degrees but never God.
So when you are a kaffirun you are actually fooling yourself by not listen to the truth from your Lord. And who to blame? Only yourself.
Maria
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I was surprised to see many didnt consider traditionalists as disbelievers. Some confessed they go to trad mosques and pray there, others say they participate in eid, some get offended by the fact that i mentioned from chapter 63, traditionalists are amongst hypocrites who utter a false shahada.
So guys, finally, what is yr real position concerning traditionalists? Bear in mind that this site itself has articles such as 'why do muslims lose?' or 'warning to our loved ones'Salaam brother Tariq
I am happy to see you are asking very valid question.
Who is a disbeliever?
the one who does not really believe in God but doe all the rituals for show or to appear pious and an hypocrite is in fact a disbelieves as Qur?an condemns them as people who will not enter paradise and will be in the lowest part of hell in other words the same condemnation as for mushriks ? why ?
Because a hypocrite takes this world to be their god and does all to get appreciation from people around them. They say what you want to hear in your company but when they are with the other lot they join them like one of them. So you would find them in many sections of society; the main thing is to recognise them.
As for mosques check this 09108 Do not stand in it ever (E), a mosque/place of worshipping God (E) founded (established) on the fear and obedience (of God) from (the) first day (is) more worthy/deserving that you stand in it, in it (are) men they love/like that they purify themselves mentally and physically , and God loves/likes the pure/clean .
Free-Minds Do not uphold in it ever. A temple that is founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy that you uphold in it; in it are men who love to be cleansed. And God loves the cleansed.
Today almost all mosques are build by committee who do not pay any attention to the funds they receive as long as they get to build mosque and attract the most possible faithful.
The Imams are paid employees who get their salaries to do the job. They are not servant of Allah they get their reward in terms of their wage so why would pray behind those who are only doing their job?
Peace be with you
Farida -
Peace. If we follow road regulations, traffic rules,etc we're not committing shirk as long as these laws do not contradict the spirit of quran. Besides some say that the civil code was inspired from quran. In what ways not driving whilst drunk be shirk? It's not like saying adulterers should be put to death.
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peace
what about other laws,
As long as they are not labeled (divine) they are "other laws". Scholars do not set "other laws", but they can turn them "divine" when they issue that speaking other than Arabic is "makruuh Not appreciated by God" (Yes, I heard that on TV).
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Peace,
Here is the ruling of God"And whoever does not judge by what Allah revealed, then they are Kafirun." (Surat Al-Maidah, Ayah 44). Who are we to disagree?
Yes, but what does 'Allah revealed' mean? Does this not also mean the universe itself? Can the universe exist without God? Did he not 'reveal' it?
Try 65, 657, 666, 2968, 505
Rejecters = Rejecters of the Truth
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Peace,
Yes, but what does 'Allah revealed' mean? Does this not also mean the universe itself? Can the universe exist without God? Did he not 'reveal' it?
Try 65, 657, 666, 2968, 505
Rejecters = Rejecters of the Truth
Created vs revealed. One deals with inspiration & knowledge, the other deals with the physical world. Revelations = new information and in the quranic context, information that is complementary to how we are "programmed" to reason.
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peace
As long as they are not labeled (divine) they are "other laws". Scholars do not set "other laws", but they can turn them "divine" when they issue that speaking other than Arabic is "makruuh Not appreciated by God" (Yes, I heard that on TV).
a, i see. well they shouldn't say hadith are devine laws.
actually when i think about it hadith shouldn't be any kind of laws, many (if not all) are insulting and just crazy (imo). -
Peace,
Created vs revealed. One deals with inspiration & knowledge, the other deals with the physical world. Revelations = new information and in the quranic context, information that is complementary to how we are "programmed" to reason.
You have a point, I was meaning if you look at it 'metaphorically'.
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R K got it right. We are born into such and such tribe or community according to our previous deeds in the 1st life or life before being born on earth. God chose some souls to be born as aborigenes and thus to be deprived of guidance. That's maybe cause in the 1st life, they were wicked, otherwise God would be unjust and God is never unjust.
Have you got any quranic sources to this claim?
You reject hadiths as being contradictory to the Quran but I feel you've fallen into the same trap of following RK's "hadith" as truth without any quranic evidence.
In regards to this post Damon got it right in terms of breaking up in sects. The story of Aaron and Moses is a brilliant example how when Moses had to go and Aaron was looking after the believers they turned to idol worship of the calf and yet he kept them together and didn't break up into a sect when questioned by Moses on why he didn't do anything about it. It's been sometime I've read that story so would be worthwhile reading it again but it's very relevant to the topic.
Unity is very important in the deen regardless of which deen or religion you follow.
PEACE
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Peace its rk who wrote the article. Not me. I'm just sayin that his explanation is plausible, doesn't mean it's false. Read the articles here about the beginning, you will see that there is speculation too! Does having a certain interpretation mean that we're breaking up into sects. You are obsessed about sects. When will you say that there will be 72 sects and bla bla
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The story of Aaron and Moses is a brilliant example how when Moses had to go and Aaron was looking after the believers they turned to idol worship of the calf and yet he kept them together and didn't break up into a sect when questioned by Moses on why he didn't do anything about it. It's been sometime I've read that story so would be worthwhile reading it again but it's very relevant to the topic.
Unity is very important in the deen regardless of which deen or religion you follow.
PEACE
If Aaron did it and justified it as such, does it mean it was right?
Why didn't Moses, then, keep the hebrews in Egypt and went along with the pharoh, taking him as God, and thus kept the unity of a whole nation? What kind of messenger would allow idol worshipping in the name of unity?