If incest is prohibited, how did the human race populate from Adam?
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Peace Br. OPF, Pazuzu,
I think my explanation have been very sparse............................................................................
Peacehttp//uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Poof,_There_It_Is_Theory
When God says "be" and it exists, does that mean it comes as above? Simple question and a simple answer. The key point of 37 is the last section, which I think is quite obvious as to the meaning. Someone not having a firm grounding in a subject isn't in a position to comment on it.
The universe is conjectured by people to have been formed in stages, God says in the quran that it is formed in stages and describes some stages in detail, so why is it any different here?
As Arnold Yasin said, which God is more powerful, the one that creates something then patches up until it's "perfect", or the one that creates a completely autonomous creation that tends towards perfection by physical law?
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http//uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Poof,_There_It_Is_Theory
When God says "be" and it exists, does that mean it comes as above? Simple question and a simple answer. The key point of 37 is the last section, which I think is quite obvious as to the meaning. Someone not having a firm grounding in a subject isn't in a position to comment on it.
The universe is conjectured by people to have been formed in stages, God says in the quran that it is formed in stages and describes some stages in detail, so why is it any different here?
As Arnold Yasin said, which God is more powerful, the one that creates something then patches up until it's "perfect", or the one that creates a completely autonomous creation that tends towards perfection by physical law?
Thanks for your post, Br. OPF. The one thing that I have learned from it is that I don't have a place yet, in this discussion. Thank you for pointing that out to me, before I could make a really serious mistake. I apologize to everyone for any unpleasantries that I may have uttered.
Peace
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Thanks for your post, Br. OPF. The one thing that I have learned from it is that I don't have a place yet, in this discussion. Thank you for pointing that out to me, before I could make a really serious mistake. I apologize to everyone for any unpleasantries that I may have uttered.
Peace
That was a comment on 37 itself, not on anyone in this thread ???
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This becomes a problematic question if you believe that Adam was a single individual man.
This is not necessarily true. Adam is a collective noun indicating MANKIND. God created Adam (mankind) and made him his "khalifa" (vicegerent) on Earth. God also made the "malai'ka" (forces of nature) prostrate themselves to Adam (mankind). This prostration is symbolic. It means that God made these natural forces serve mankind.
Furthermore, there is no Eve mentioned anywhere in the Quran. The Quran mentions Adam and his mate (zawjuhu), not Adam and his wife (imra'atuhu). Hence the phrase Adam and his mate must be understood symbolically or collectively.
Those who are used to talking about Adam and Eve as two simgle idividuals are under the influence of the corrupted Jewish scriptures.
The Quran does not contradict science. Belief that the 6 billion+ humans on teh Earth today came from a single couple is scientifically impossible.
Furthermore, the Quran states clearly that Noah was the first prophet.
Peace...
Um, actually Pazuzu, the idea that 6+ billion humans today are descendants of a single couple is scientifically possible. In fact, in one theory of species, the phylogeny species concept, to be a species all existing individuals of a population must be the descendants of a common ancestor--since Homo sapiens are sexually reproducing species then the first Homo sapiens must be descendants of a couple.
That said, it is also possible (probably more possible) that the first Homo sapiens were a small population, descendants of another species.
What we should be questioning is the belief that the first humans had no biological parents.
Shanavas' book had a (to me) more acceptable translation of khalifah. Not 'vicegerent' but 'successor'. Makes more sense if humans are successors of previous species!
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Peace all,
I agree with the understanding that "adam" is representative of mankind - thus, there is no contradiction with the incest prohibition. Further, "adam" was taught the names of all things, indicating the ability to speak and learn and put things in their proper places. This also coincides with the current understanding of evolution.
Sharp001, you asked
if you say, that Adam was a product of a slow process of evolution which may have taken place over thousands of year, then, please explain why 359, when Jesus is being compared to Adam
The answer is right in the ayah itself
The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him "Be" and he was.359 tells us that both Adam and Isa were born from dust/clay via the "be" command from God.
347 tells us also that God creates via the "be" command.This, however, is not unique to Adam and Isa...
3020 Among His Signs is this, that He created you from dust;
Who is this in reference to? See also 1837, 225, 3511, 4067.
Furthermore, according to 4068 "...when He decrees an affair, He only says to it Be, and it is". Notice, that this is not a special command just for Adam and Isa. It is whenever Allah decrees an affair.
Therefore, the conclusion is
Adam, Mankind, Isa = created from dust/clay
Adam, Mankind, Isa = created via the "be" commandSo what is 359 telling us?
Adam and Isa were men created just like all other men.Peace,
Tay -
Peace all
Therefore, the conclusion is
Adam, Mankind, Isa = created from dust/clay
Adam, Mankind, Isa = created via the "be" commandSo what is 359 telling us?
Adam and Isa were men created just like all other men.Couldn't have said it any better. Also, if you don't believe in evolution, what exactly does it mean when it says that we are created from dust? Also, that all life is created from water. That is EVOLUTION ITSELF! From one stage to another.
Peace
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Muhammed Asad
3 59 Verily, in the sight of God, the nature of Jesus is as the nature of Adam, whom He created out of dust and then said unto him, "Be" - and he is.* (3 60) the truth from thy Sustainer; be not, then, among the doubters!
*Lit., "The parable of Jesus is as the parable of Adam...", etc. The expression mathal (rendered above as "nature" is often metaphorically employed to denote the state or condition (of a person or a thing), and is in this sense - as the commentators have pointed out - synonymous with sifah (the "quality" or "nature" of a thing). As is evident from the sequence, the above passage is part of an argument against the Christian doctrine of the divinity of Jesus. The Qur'an stresses here, as in many other places, the fact that Jesus, like Adam - by which name, in this context, the whole human race is meant - was only a mortal "created out of dust", i.e., out of substances, both organic and inorganic, which are found in their elementary forms on and in the earth. Cf. also 1837, 225, 3020, 3511, 4067, where the Qur'an speaks of all human beings as "created out of dust". That "Adam" stands here for the human race is clearly implied in the use of the present tense in the last word of this sentence.
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Br. Arnold,
Could you please provide reference to those verses?
Peace
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,420,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=96fa8fe0483eb078fb4b440bfd2fcd67
3133 Move forward eagerly to the tranquil security that comes from your Lord, and to the Paradise that transcends spatial boundaries, encompassing the Heavens and the Earth. It has already been prepared for those who live upright. (Paradise is not confined to the Heavens. Like Hell, it begins right here in this worldly life).
1697 Whoever, whether male or female, does works that help others and is a believer, We shall certainly cause them to live a good life, and We shall grant them the rewards considering the best of their actions.
4131 We are close to you in the life of the world and in the Hereafter. In it (in your paradise on the earth and in the Hereafter) you shall have all that you may desire and in it you shall have all that you ever prayed for.
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Um, actually Pazuzu, the idea that 6+ billion humans today are descendants of a single couple is scientifically possible. In fact, in one theory of species, the phylogeny species concept, to be a species all existing individuals of a population must be the descendants of a common ancestor--since Homo sapiens are sexually reproducing species then the first Homo sapiens must be descendants of a couple.
That said, it is also possible (probably more possible) that the first Homo sapiens were a small population, descendants of another species.
What we should be questioning is the belief that the first humans had no biological parents.
Shanavas' book had a (to me) more acceptable translation of khalifah. Not 'vicegerent' but 'successor'. Makes more sense if humans are successors of previous species!
230
And the One that brings the whole Existence from one stage to the other made a Decree to the Laws that control the Dominion of Existence
I am placing species that will constantly succeed each other on the (habitable) land (all habitable planets in the Universe)
They announced (as the Outcome of this Decree was shown through the stages of Cause and Effect) "Will You place therein one who will spread disorder therein and shed blood (as these species will develop different understandings of reality and will fight each other because of this). While we strive in the manifestation of your Glory (as we are in harmony with your Decrees which is seen in amazing Goal and order of creation). He made another Decree (that was implanted into the fabric of the Universe) I have the Knowledge which you (the Creation) lacks .
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We cannot see what happens behind our backs or behind our sight or knowledge. And unless we through our sciences could create an amoeba, or a bacteria or a knot or as little a being as virus, we donot argue the creation nor believe in theories and conjectures.So be patient and pray for wisdom
7172
And when your God created the children and the descendants of Adam, from their backs, and made them bear witness against their own souls Am I not your God? They said Yes! we bear witness. Lest you should say on the day of resurrection Surely we were heedless of this.
20.114
High above all is Allah, the Ruler, the Truth! Be not in haste with the Qur'an before its wisdom upon you is completed, but say, "O my God! Improve my knowledge."
If we still argue over that which we have no knowledge, we do wrong to our own souls and it is like we are debating the chastity of Mary too.
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It is very rare, but there is an aberration whereby a woman may have two embryos and one of them doesnt develop and nests in the body fo the other embryo, which if it is a female later may develop en her adulthood as if it was her own child, but in fact it is her brother. I can't remember where, but a case like that came up not too long ago in in the news. It was not the first time either I heard of something like that.
So it is in fact quite possible to uphold the Mariam's untouchedness and also her having a child. Of course, there may be other possibilities of which we know nothing, but this is one such possibility.
I agree, that we are all speculating to a greater or lesser extent, which in itself is not wrong, provided we are conscious of it and don't pretend to pass as knowledge our endeavours to acquire it, in which in fact we succeed, although the knowledge we acquire may have nothing to do with the knowledge we sought in kind or amount. But neverthless, wellcome be it and the good company.
Salaam
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Darwin's theory of evolution is a myth. IKts also been proven unscientific. It is an atheistic dogma hiding behind science. There has NEVER been any evidence for species evolving to other species nor has there been any scientific evidence to show how can that be. Since that would require new information to a species DNA. Species can have variety WITHING their DNA but to evolve into anyhting different requires new DNA information. This is why dogs are dogs and cats are cats and we do not see fish growing limbs and birds growing scales or vice versa. 95% of Darwinist are athiest and they believe in it not because of the science but because of atheism.
All the fossil records has shown repeatedly that species emerge fully form as they are and suddenly. All Darwinist do is pick up an extinct species fossils and claim it is a descendant of so and so. Its all wishfull lies and speculation. Plus the first micro organism is irreducibly complex running on molecular machines. Its not a blob of protoplasm Darwin thought it was.
Nothing in nature can compare to a cell complex structure and evoltion between species has never been observed either today or in the past and so far is scientifically imposible. Watch documentaries about what living organism are
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5585125669588896670&q=unlocking+mystery+of+life&total=78&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Plus the lies Darwinist have in their text books
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6659285782452089140&q=icons+of+evolution+duration%3Along&total=7&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3
You can also see video lectures by Dr duane Gish about fossil records and about the origins of man in video google.
Be carefull about scientist, they are humans like anyone else. Take a look at the other side by proponents of intelligent design(ID). They are knowledgable and honest and don't lie like the darwinist.
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Darwin's theory of evolution is a myth. IKts also been proven unscientific. It is an atheistic dogma hiding behind science. There has NEVER been any evidence for species evolving to other species nor has there been any scientific evidence to show how can that be.
Muslims developed evolution theory and Intelligent design people also make real real big big mistakes. PLUS, intelligent design does acknowledge development from species to species, but as a result of a designed plan and not by blind change as Darwinists claim it to be.
What you promote is more Creationism, something that is not supported at all by the Quran.
BOTH the Darwinsts AND the Intelligent Designers are wrong on many things as they both neglect to acknowledge that it is the LAWS of the Universe that layout the results.
God does not tinker with His Design as His Design is always perfect. He created the Universe in such a way that intelligent Life would emerge. This is a designed outcome, an outcome calculated as the enviroment and the laws were pre-designed in such a way, that life could only evolve towards intelligence and higher species.
Thus blind change is not involved as Darwinists claim as they neglect to see that the enviroments and laws involved will determine the outcome of life, and the Intelligent Designers are wrong as God does not intervene in the Universe as it is some sort of faulty design that needs upgrading.
God's Design is always perfect from the start.
506 Do they not look at the sky above them how We have built it and beautified it, and there are no flaws therein? 507 And the earth. We have spread it out, and set mountains standing firm on it, and produced therein every kind of beautiful plants in pairs.
You can only claim there are no flaws in it when you do not need to fix it....
I believe in God, the Designer of Laws, which carry out His Will in which His Plan comes out gradually phase by phase untill it reaches its completion. He programmed the Universe in such a way, Life would emerge out of it on its own without need for interferring or fixing up time by time.
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Muslims developed evolution theory and Intelligent design people also make real real big big mistakes. PLUS, intelligent design does acknowledge development from species to species, but as a result of a designed plan and not by blind change as Darwinists claim it to be.
What you promote is more Creationism, something that is not supported at all by the Quran.
BOTH the Darwinsts AND the Intelligent Designers are wrong on many things as they both neglect to acknowledge that it is the LAWS of the Universe that layout the results.
God does not tinker with His Design as His Design is always perfect. He created the Universe in such a way that intelligent Life would emerge. This is a designed outcome, an outcome calculated as the enviroment and the laws were pre-designed in such a way, that life could only evolve towards intelligence and higher species.
Thus blind change is not involved as Darwinists claim as they neglect to see that the enviroments and laws involved will determine the outcome of life, and the Intelligent Designers are wrong as God does not intervene in the Universe as it is some sort of faulty design that needs upgrading.
God's Design is always perfect from the start.
506 Do they not look at the sky above them how We have built it and beautified it, and there are no flaws therein? 507 And the earth. We have spread it out, and set mountains standing firm on it, and produced therein every kind of beautiful plants in pairs.
You can only claim there are no flaws in it when you do not need to fix it....
I believe in God, the Designer of Laws, which carry out His Will in which His Plan comes out gradually phase by phase untill it reaches its completion. He programmed the Universe in such a way, Life would emerge out of it on its own without need for interferring or fixing up time by time.
There is no scientific evidence to what you are saying. Michael Behe is the only on among the IDers who believes in common descent but even he acknowledges that there is no scientific evidence for that.
Most IDers reject the common descent argument as there is no scientific mechanism to explain it even though the Darwinist keep saying that random mutation and natural selection makes it happen. Since when does random and natural explain science? What you believe is your problem however there is nothing scientific to what you are saying.
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Well well, that is a hard through the corner conclusion. No discussion even possible it seems and neglects the rest of the post.
Peace
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"Adam" would start from the first sapient man/woman.
First means the ?one? which all others originated from, right?
http//www.veoh.com/videos/v415763FER9hC4c
All males have DNA signature or Y chromosome which trace back to one original Adam.
Adam in Arabic means Intelligent man, this is exactly the meaning of Homo Sapiens, Thinking Man...
The Quran says clearly we developed from lower species
6133 Your Lord is Absolute, the Lord of Mercy. He could replace you with whomever He Will, like He RAISED YOU FROM THE GENERATIONS OF OTHER FOLK.
7628 (Who gave them the mind and body to behave the way they choose?)We it is Who have created them, and strengthened their frame. And if We Will, We can replace them entirely with other nations.
7114 Knowing that He has created you in successive stages.
7117 And Allah has caused you to grow as a growth from the earth/as a (geneological) tree.
The stages you interpret as germ thingy-fish-people can also mean nothing (i.e. dust)-embryo-baby-child-adult.
Yes, I was raised from generations of other folk or "people" who were my ancestors not germ thingy or fish.
Define exactly "intelligent thinking man" to distinguish the idiot brutes still walking the earth today?
God does not tinker with His Design as His Design is always perfect. He created the Universe in such a way that intelligent Life would emerge. This is a designed outcome, an outcome calculated as the enviroment and the laws were pre-designed in such a way, that life could only evolve towards intelligence and higher species.
I believe in God, the Designer of Laws, which carry out His Will in which His Plan comes out gradually phase by phase untill it reaches its completion. He programmed the Universe in such a way, Life would emerge out of it on its own without need for interferring or fixing up time by time.
How do you know God does not tinker?
If everything was set up like dominoes and flicked in motion then why pray or bother to ask forgiveness?
How can anyone be responsible in life for thinking and acting the way they do?
Peace
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How do you know God does not tinker?
If everything was set up like dominoes and flicked in motion then why pray or bother to ask forgiveness?
How can anyone be responsible in life for thinking and acting the way they do?
It's all determinism ;D
Really, use the "God is a computer, we are the program" analogy. As you say, why pray or ask for forgiveness? Does praying to something invisible or asking for forgiveness work at all? Answer
853 - This is because Allah has never changed a favor which He has conferred upon a people until they change their own condition; and because Allah is Hearing, Knowing;
Again, a case of determinism, no change can happen unless someone changes themselves. "God" has/uses no powers of intervention (tricky thing to say) but still has full control.
First means the one which all others originated from, right?
Funny you should say that but quranic verses can have more than one truth. For instance, take 2130 (Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were closed up, but We have opened them; and We have made of water everything living, will they not then believe?). That could hold true for many occasions - nebulas, the "big bang" theory in the case of earth, and for humans, chemical composition is derived mostly from hydrocarbons , or just the sheer fact that we are around 80% water as we speak.
Obviously we're well out of our boots to comment on human origins, but a guess with evidence is better than "Poof! There it is!".
The stages you interpret as germ thingy-fish-people can also mean nothing (i.e. dust)-embryo-baby-child-adult.
And why not both?
Quranic verses have a lot of double meanings and every one of them happen to be true. Elegant...
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Peace Br. OPF, Pazuzu,
I think my explanation have been very sparse. What I am implying is I accept that man was/is created in stages. But those stages are fairly obvious, aren't they? Like you said, Br. Pazuzu
You hit the nail on the head when you yourself identified the stages of "biological evolution" above from inception to perfection. That is a downright verifiable biological fact. Now if you say, that Adam was a product of a slow process of evolution which may have taken place over thousands of year, then, please explain why 359, when Jesus is being compared to Adam, doesn't go something like this
"The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him "Be" and he was.... in stages....eventually."
This verse is as simple and straightforward as it can be. and the second half of the verse is referring to Adam. "Be" and he was. Period.
As for 1529
By your point of view, Adam was perfected BECAUSE God breathed his Ruuh in him, not before. So 1529 would be understood as "So when I perfect him, by blowing My Spirit in him, you shall yield to him."
Please try to understand this from my point of view. It seems like the theory of evolution is being forced in the Book. I'll just put a simple scenario. Wipe your mind clear of any theory of evolution and then, when you read about the stages, what would be the obvious interpretation that you would arrive at?
Just consider this point from 37.
37 - "He is the One who sent down to you the Scripture, from which there are firm verses; they are the essence of the Scripture; and others which are allegorical. As for those who have disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its original interpretation except God and those who are well founded in knowledge, they Say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except the people of understanding."
The Allegorical verses... people will tend to follow writings/sayings SIMILAR TO the allegorical verses, not the allegorical verses themselves. So, when you read the theory of evolution, you related it to the allegorical verses in the sense that, "yes, the Book alludes to something similar to this theory. Therefore, the theory must be the interpretation of those verses." That is exactly the trap that we should be avoiding.
Although, I am sure that most will not agree with my point of view in this regard, but I truly hope that you will understand where I am coming from. Because I feel that I have not been successful in getting my point across.
You will have to excuse me, if I have written anything irrelevant in the post. I am not as proficient as most in this forum.
Peace
bravoI agree 100% and believe me that's rare in me handshake
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What's the relation between creation and the main question of the thread?
Peace. God's system never changes. Incest is prohibited. Brothers can't marry sisters. How then did we multiply?
What do societal laws have to do with God's system? God changes his civic/societal/moral laws according to the evolution and need of mankind. I do not think marrying a sister, for example, is "naturally" an incest. Nor is killing for food "naturally" a crime. God's laws made them so. If not for God's laws we would have been practicing them "innocently" until now.
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Oh and we have "evolved" http//www.terradaily.com/reports/Evolutionary_Comparison_Finds_New_Human_Genes_999.html