The After Life
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peace
I believe that heaven and hell in the quran are experienced in this life.
And I'm starting to feel that the concept of the after life is more wishful thinking than anything else.
For one, we don't have any evidence of life after death. And I think (I maybe wrong) that life after death requires a supernatural "soul" which again we have no evidence of. We don't have an "immaterial" part to our being.And I think that if we really believe that this life is our only life, it makes us value it so much more. Not just our life but everyone else's. It's easy to not care about the billions of starving people if we think that they'll have their reward after the suffering, but you have to care if this is the only life they have and there's nothing after the suffering.
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Peace Lobster,
And I think that if we really believe that this life is our only life, it makes us value it so much more. Not just our life but everyone else's.
Not necessarily.It's easy to not care about the billions of starving people if we think that they'll have their reward after the suffering, but you have to care if this is the only life they have and there's nothing after the suffering.
No you don't. Infact, if there's no afterlife, more the reason for one not to care about injustices on others. Sure you can take care of yourself, but why should you bother about others? If you can get away with doing something wrong without consequences, why care? I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't believe in the afterlife is necessarily a bad person in this life, but just turning around the logic, you'll see it works both ways.BTW, if you believe in God and the afterlife, I mean truly believe it?... you will NOT let others suffer just because they'll be "rewarded" in the afterlife.
peace
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Peace
Why you should believe in the resurrection 16/65; 29/19-20; 30/19; 35/9
The more you engage with fantasies not in line with the currents of thought in the quran, the more you will deviate from the guidance. The clear warning is given to take the similar in line with the clear.
Joe
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peace
I believe that heaven and hell in the quran are experienced in this life.
And I'm starting to feel that the concept of the after life is more wishful thinking than anything else.
For one, we don't have any evidence of life after death. And I think (I maybe wrong) that life after death requires a supernatural "soul" which again we have no evidence of. We don't have an "immaterial" part to our being.And I think that if we really believe that this life is our only life, it makes us value it so much more. Not just our life but everyone else's. It's easy to not care about the billions of starving people if we think that they'll have their reward after the suffering, but you have to care if this is the only life they have and there's nothing after the suffering.
Peace Lobster,
I believe that heaven and hell in the quran are experienced in this life.
I agree. Is it limited to that though? Maybe that's proof for the after life? It may be just me but I'd like to think that we're here for SOME reason. No, not referring to 'original sin' brickwall
For one, we don't have any evidence of life after death.
And how could there be? Unless we can speak to the dead. Quran clearly says that you can't make the dead hear. I think that's asking a little much.
Bold Scientists Say PROOF Soul Exists
http//www.mercola.com/2002/jan/2/soul.htm
The Lancet is one of the world's most respected medical journals. So when it published an article in its current edition in which scientists claim to have PROOF that humans have a life after death that exists independently of the body that it inhabits, folks are sitting up and taking notice.
The Scientific Theory of the Soul
http//science.krishna.org/Articles/2004/05/006.html
And I think that if we really believe that this life is our only life, it makes us value it so much more. Not just our life but everyone else's. It's easy to not care about the billions of starving people if we think that they'll have their reward after the suffering, but you have to care if this is the only life they have and there's nothing after the suffering.
We have to care regardless.The quran emphasizes over and over about us helping those in need and the poor ones. According to the quran, God will hold us accountable for not doing our part
475 And why do you not fight in the cause of God, when the weak amongst the men and women and children say "Our Lord, bring us out of this town whose people are wicked, and grant us from Yourself a Supporter, and grant us from Yourself a Victor!"
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peace
I believe that heaven and hell in the quran are experienced in this life.
...we can say pain and happiness is what we experience in this life, so life here is a mix of heaven and hell.
but i think what promised is complete happiness or complete pain but what will be our state to experience that.
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I believe that heaven and hell in the quran are experienced in this life.
And I'm starting to feel that the concept of the after life is more wishful thinking than anything else.You can believe whatever you want brother..
Believing and not believing on some concept doesn't affect the 'truthfulness' of that concept..
You can believe that the earth is flat, everyone can believe that the earth is flat and it doesn't affect the truth about the earth being an 'elliptical' ball..For one, we don't have any evidence of life after death.
And you don't have any evidence of life before being borned either?
The only way to find the 'evidence' of life after death is to experience the 'death' first.
Too bad those who had experienced 'true death' (not an NDE) cannot go back to 'this life' and tell others what he/she had experienced.And I think (I maybe wrong) that life after death requires a supernatural "soul" which again we have no evidence of. We don't have an "immaterial" part to our being.
How do you know that "We don't have an 'immaterial' part to our being"?
My advice take some lessons on "buddhist meditation", those buddhist monks are experts to teach you how to experience "out-of-body" sensation through deep meditation.
IMHO they're the most 'un-sectarian' people compared with the sunnis, shias, christians etc..
Don't worry they will not ask you to join their sect and/or doing some 'proclamation of faith' or any other of those nonsenses practiced by the sectarians.Salam
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I believe there was another existence before this, and there is an existence after this! this is where you strive and hold steadfast. It's a test that never ends. Yes you have ups and downs and heaven and hell here too. But there is always more to life than what we know and there is more to life than what we can sense (hear, see, touch, smell, etc.). Look at God's creation ... from a dead seed creates a new life! anything is possible as long as it's logical, but just because we don't know about it yet doesn't mean it's illogical. Some things may not be for us to know, unless Allah wills otherwise.
Peace
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Salam.
Respectfully.We do not know about other countries untill they tell us at school. Why? At the age of 1 it really doesn't matter for us but as we grow, it starts to matter. At the age of 25 we wanna go to Japan and live there and they promise us that if we follow a certain path, if we work and do good, we will have enough money to earn our way into Japan.
Hope you can change the words to see my point.
Peace.
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peace all
Zenje, you sayNo you don't. In fact, if there's no afterlife, more the reason for one not to care about injustices on others. Sure you can take care of yourself, but why should you bother about others? If you can get away with doing something wrong without consequences, why care? I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't believe in the afterlife is necessarily a bad person in this life, but just turning around the logic, you'll see it works both ways.
Well, why should we care about others, even if there is no afterlife?
I'll give you two reasons that might work.- I think because of the way humans are, when we do something wrong (knowing that it is wrong), we feel bad. When we do good, we feel good. I believe that's the concept behind heaven and hell and karma.
- Getting away with doing something wrong isn't that easy. Sometimes, if you can do something without getting caught, there are no bad consequences, only good ones (for example a peeping tom). But realistically, the risk of getting caught is pretty high, and the possible pleasure or happiness we'll get from doing it is not worth the risk. So the morally right thing to do is to avoid doing that.
- humans benefit from seeming good. If we're good to others, others are good to us. We can pretend to be good, but the best way to pretend is to actually be.
So we're best off if we're good to others.
Nabi, you say
Why you should believe in the resurrection 16/65; 29/19-20; 30/19; 35/9
The more you engage with fantasies not in line with the currents of thought in the quran, the more you will deviate from the guidance. The clear warning is given to take the similar in line with the clear.
Why will a deviate from the guidance if I dont follow the quran?
DArgento, you say
I agree. Is it limited to that though? Maybe that's proof for the after life? It may be just me but I'd like to think that we're here for SOME reason. No, not referring to 'original sin'
Maybe there is proof, but I haven't seen it, yet. There has to be a reason for me to believe something, and aside from convenience, there isn't one for me to believe in an afterlife.
I'd like to think we're here from some reason too. I don't want my existence to be completely meaningless. But if that's really the way it is, then why should we delude ourselves?And how could there be? Unless we can speak to the dead. Quran clearly says that you can't make the dead hear. I think that's asking a little much.
Exactly. You can't disprove the afterlife. It's like the theory that we are living in a matrix controlled by Aliens. We can't prove or disprove it, so we discard it. If you believe in everything that cannot be completely ruled out, then you'll be believing in pretty weird stuff.
Amin say
we can say pain and happiness is what we experience in this life, so life here is a mix of heaven and hell.
but i think what promised is complete happiness or complete pain but what will be our state to experience that.
You can believe that, but what is your reason for believing it? Why do you believe in this promise? That's what I would like to know.
Jafar say
You can believe whatever you want brother..
Believing and not believing on some concept doesn't affect the 'truthfulness' of that concept..
You can believe that the earth is flat, everyone can believe that the earth is flat and it doesn't affect the truth about the earth being an 'elliptical' ball..That's exactly my point. We can believe in whatever we want, but the right beliefs are those for which we have proof. When asked why we believe in something, we should have a damn good reason.
I dont have a good reason for believing in an after life so I can't believe in it, even though I want to.How do you know that "We don't have an 'immaterial' part to our being"?
Because we have never detected it. We are made of up of trillions of little cells consisting of organelles made up of different molecules....Everything boils down to neutrons, protons, and electrons, there's nothing supernatural.
What the buddhists experience, as real as it is, isn't a supernatural experience, it has to have a physical, biological explanation (and it does). -
Peace Lobster,
Maybe there is proof, but I haven't seen it, yet. There has to be a reason for me to believe something, and aside from convenience, there isn't one for me to believe in an afterlife.
I'd like to think we're here from some reason too. I don't want my existence to be completely meaningless. But if that's really the way it is, then why should we delude ourselves?Well, I too take the agnostic approach. It's really irrelevant whether we believe in it or not. It either will be or it won't. Maybe we are deluding ourselves, but our beliefs in it have no bearing. I have also considered the possibility that hell is this earth. That we keep coming back here until we've grown enough to advance. Do I sincerely believe that? No, but surely do think about it.
Let's recall Abraham has a very similar dilemma (2260). It's a natural instinct to question something one doesn't have immediate proof of.
Exactly. You can't disprove the afterlife. It's like the theory that we are living in a matrix controlled by Aliens. We can't prove or disprove it, so we discard it. If you believe in everything that cannot be completely ruled out, then you'll be believing in pretty weird stuff.
Well I have wondered before whether this whole life is just our imagination, a dream state if you will. I don't think I seriously believe this, but on a daily basis, I see too many coincidences (that could be imagined too! ). Too many times, I have gotten what I wanted. What I really wanted, not what I said to myself I wanted.
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We have a day and a night life; day life is for us to live and earn out of what god has promised for us; and night life is a dead life whereupon you have no control; we are in god's mercy; and unless we are given back our life there is no way we can ever be awake and continue to complete our life span.There are 2 deaths; and 2 rising ups. First death and afterlife is the nightly sleep and rising in this life and the second sleep is when we finally die and the second rising is on the day of judgement.
During the nightly death in this world we are raised to god's world which we call the dream world; there we witness god's treasures and His immense power; all impossible events take place there because it is god's world; we are dead log on the bed but in our dreams we are raised to a different world with the same body; for others' eyes it seems as if our body is lying on the cot; but infact we aren't there; our bodies are likened to our actual presence. We are raised to god's world as the trance of sleep overtakes us. And as day breaks our lives are returned back to us for us to continue our stint in this world; and on whoso's soul death is fixed it is never to be returned. Yes until the DoJ.
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Zenje
No you don't. Infact, if there's no afterlife, more the reason for one not to care about injustices on others. Sure you can take care of yourself, but why should you bother about others?
Nice comment Mr. Zenje, seems you have a good eye on the nature.
Mr. Lobster very interesting topic, but i would like to know how you want to discuss it via Quran or via Philosphy?
Because Quran clear cut disagrees with what you said. -
Peace Lobster,
I believe that heaven and hell in the quran are experienced in this life.
And I'm starting to feel that the concept of the after life is more wishful thinking than anything else.
For one, we don't have any evidence of life after death. And I think (I maybe wrong) that life after death requires a supernatural "soul" which again we have no evidence of. We don't have an "immaterial" part to our being.The afterlife is one of the most certain things that you can verify. Just look into your imagination. Can't you imagine, as others have, that sometime in the future, science could take DNA for dead people and make them again? If we can imagine this with our tiny little jelly-like mass that we call brain then can't the creator of the heavens and the earth actually do it? Certainly, the answer is yes. This is why in reality anyone who doesn't believe in the afterlife, doesn't believe in the creator.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Lobster,
The afterlife is one of the most certain things that you can verify. Just look into your imagination. Can't you imagine, as others have, that sometime in the future, science could take DNA for dead people and make them again? If we can imagine this with our tiny little jelly-like mass that we call brain then can't the creator of the heavens and the earth actually do it? Certainly, the answer is yes. This is why in reality anyone who doesn't believe in the afterlife, doesn't believe in the creator.
Peace,Ayman
All very well said.
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Peace,
Belief in the hereafter is through our actions, not our words IMO. If one does evil things (despite the knowledge), one doesn't really believe in the hereafter because they feel invincible (3945 is a good example). As for one who does good things, well 6920
"I knew that I was going to be held accountable."
The evil-doers don't expect to be held accountable. (7827)
I can say over and over that I believe in the after-life, but unless my actions go along with that, those words are useless and meaningless.
peace
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peace all
You can believe that, but what is your reason for believing it? Why do you believe in this promise? That's what I would like to know.
Thats my belief , also I find some PEACE in that way when I believe "amin" the intelligent program (capable of learning) will one day get its due based on its performance in this world.
thinking about who we are, may be we are some kind of empty god sent or given CAPSULES of consiousnous, that came here to EXPEREIENCE this world,universe, body etc etc and make an influence, this capsules on death will be rated by GOD and again be given the ultimate EXPERIENCE for ever.
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peace
Raj-ah, you said
Mr. Lobster very interesting topic, but i would like to know how you want to discuss it via Quran or via Philosphy?
Because Quran clear cut disagrees with what you said.Anything that leads me to a better understanding. I'm not perfectly sure about what the quran says, but I think that it says heaven and hell are experienced in this life (AND the next? I don't know).
Ayman,
The afterlife is one of the most certain things that you can verify. Just look into your imagination. Can't you imagine, as others have, that sometime in the future, science could take DNA for dead people and make them again? If we can imagine this with our tiny little jelly-like mass that we call brain then can't the creator of the heavens and the earth actually do it? Certainly, the answer is yes. This is why in reality anyone who doesn't believe in the afterlife, doesn't believe in the creator.
But here's the thing, if you create someone with exactly the same DNA as me, he still wouldn't be ME. (Not even physically since there are other factors involved in determining your physical characteristics)
And a huge part of what I am is my memory, how does that get transported to my new self? If we're staying within the known laws of nature, then it's not really possible.
My point is, to believe in all of this, you need to believe in the supernatural. But do we really have any way of supporting that belief?
Or maybe there is more about this universe we don't know yet. Maybe in the future we'll scientifically prove the existence of an after life, but right here, right now, in the present, do we have any good reason to believe in it?
Do we have any good reason to believe even in a supernatural Creator? -
Lobster wrote
peace
Raj-ah, you said
Quote
Mr. Lobster very interesting topic, but i would like to know how you want to discuss it via Quran or via Philosphy?
Because Quran clear cut disagrees with what you said.
Anything that leads me to a better understanding. I'm not perfectly sure about what the quran says, but I think that it says heaven and hell are experienced in this life (AND the next? I don't know).To discuss Heaven and Hell we must first try to find out, is there any life after this life or what we call death? and in this quest let us first see what Quran has to say about it
"O mankind! if you have a doubt about the Resurrection, that We created you out of dust then out of sperm then out of a leech-like clot then out of a morsel of flesh partly formed and partly unformed in order that We may manifest to you; And We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term then do We bring you out as babes then that you may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die and some are sent back to the feeblest old age so that they know nothing after having known. And you see the earth barren and lifeless but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred it swells and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth."
You are not perfectly sure about what Quran says, but I am perfectly sure after reading this verse what Quran is trying to say.
Temptations of this world and its transitory pleasures often make man forget that the life hereafter is an impending actuality. Many of those who claim to believe in the life to come, act and behave as if it belonged to a distant future, and had no bearing to their present activities and manner of living.Al-Quran
"We created you from earth and return you to earth and then bring you forth once more.""The unbelievers say Is this not strange that we should be brought back after dying and turning to dust? Such a return is impossible. But We are fully aware of what the earth takes from them and it is We Who possess the Preserved Tablet."
Therefore dear Lobster these and many other Ayats of Quran tells us that there is a life after death, now once it is clear let us see what is Quran's concept of Hell and heaven
When the Prophet of Islam expounded the topic of Qiyamah (resurrection) to the pagan Arabs, a Bedouin named Ubayy bin Khalaf picked up a decayed bone and set out for Madinah to visit the Prophet. In the hope of refuting the arguments of the Prophet and the logic of the Quran on which they were based, he raised up the bone, as if it were a valuable and convincing piece of evidence, and crumbled it to dust, scattering the pieces in the air. Then he addressed the Prophet Muhammad these crude, unadorned words inspired by his rebelliousness and ignorance "Who will restore to life the scattered particles of this rotten bone?"
He believed that he would thus be able to refute the arguments of the Prophet(s) and to destroy the belief of others in resurrection of the dead. His ignorant mode of thought prevented him from having any correct notion of the creation of being, so that he imagined that the scattered particles of a decayed bone could not possibly be brought back to life. He adamantly maintained that the reassembling of the countless particles of the body was unacceptable to man's reason.
Reply of Quran
say "Who first brought them to life will restore them to life. He has knowledge of all His creation. .. Is the Creator Who brought into being the heavens and the earth, incapable of creating the like thereof? Certainly He is the Creator and All-Knowing."