So What do you think God is?
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it's kinda tricky to belive in God when we can't know for sure what God is... isn't it!? Just how can we get it right? So there must be some way in which everyone can believe in God... even if this way might be a bit different from someone else's way. If humans can't encompass God in understanding, then we can only pick up parts of what God is... and maybe all of us are not picking up the same parts... so it could be ok with different concepts, as long as that is God.
it is also tricky that we should not (according to the quran) associate anything with God. How the heck do you avoid that?!?? What does that mean? Can I not associate love or energy with God? But its ok to associate qualities with God? What does associate mean anyway??
why is God not the creation? Are we told this so that we should not associate smaller things with God, and limit our perception of God to something. What is a creation? Is love created? Is energy created? It exists, but it is not part of God??!?!
One can go bonkers for less than these philosophical questions! brickwall ???
peace to all
Ulf -
Peace "huruf",
God is. Nothing else is.
God is ever awake but we are his dream. The universes are his dream.
We are not. We are dreamed.
This is not theology or doctrine. It is just the best way a can express my idea.
Salaam
JK- This sounds similar to the "world is a matrix" idea proposed by Harun Yahya and also somewhat accepted amongst sufis. Initially i thought it to be a good theory but due to a lack of evidence have backed away from it. Both Quran and the quantum physics tend to go more in the direction ive stated above. GOD Bless!
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Peace "zulf",
Maybe one wouldnt go bonkers if he/she just considered this http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15072.msg146317#msg146317 GOD Bless!Well, one can arrive at, and shift between, different theories about God. However, they remain just that, theories. We won't find the ultimate truth, in this life, whether we look toward quantum theories and bosons or perhaps flying horses and nighly journeys. But then again, we may improve the ideas we have, develop them, as long as we are openminded.
But the possibility of going bonkers doesn't depend on theories.... it depends on how hard we try to understand things we can't fully understand.
Peace bro! I do enjoy your quanitified bosons!
Ulf -
i have always believed that God is with and manifest through His creation, but is not equal to it. God is both present in and through His creation and exalted above it, in other words.
i am reading a wonderful book now called "An Interrupted Life The Diaries of Etty Hillesum". she was a vibrant, bright, spiritually curious woman who lived under Nazi occupation of Holland, and was eventually killed in Auschwitz. her journals are full of hope, insight, and offer an incredible map of her spiritual, inner growth as the world around her became more dangerous and unstable.
as i read her and as i make salat and du'a i have a greater sense that God is eternal life, truly merciful, compassionate, and abiding. that He guides us to one another, and grants us mercies we are not even aware of. that we should all regard one another as brothers and sisters in His faith, even though that can be very difficult, we should strive for it, with God's help.
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Peace
Would that not contradict that God is not created ?
Joe
Yeah, i see... I was just pondering over the ideas that go something like that all that exists is made up of "God-substance".... like the creation come from God... that it is not entirely different and separate. It is of course not to say that my pen or my neighbour is God... but maybe an idea of God based on separation is not the only valid idea...
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Peace "Zulf",
Well, one can arrive at, and shift between, different theories about God. However, they remain just that, theories. We won't find the ultimate truth, in this life, whether we look toward quantum theories and bosons or perhaps flying horses and nighly journeys. But then again, we may improve the ideas we have, develop them, as long as we are openminded.
But the possibility of going bonkers doesn't depend on theories.... it depends on how hard we try to understand things we can't fully understand.
Peace bro! I do enjoy your quanitified bosons!
UlfJK- Yes but this theory is very powerful because the quantum realm seems to be the ultimate realm beyond which theres only further quantum and nothing else. Ofcourse should we find other non quantum causal particles beyond that only then would we have to rethink and in that case the Quran would be falsified IMO since it states that GOD is the "Light of the heavens and the earth". GOD Bless!
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Peace "Zulf",
JK- Yes but this theory is very powerful because the quantum realm seems to be the ultimate realm beyond which theres only further quantum and nothing else. Ofcourse should we find other non quantum causal particles beyond that only then would we have to rethink and in that case the Quran would be falsified IMO since it states that GOD is the "Light of the heavens and the earth". GOD Bless!
I don't think that's a great idea.
The description of light in reality matches parts of the description of god in the quran. It doesn't experience time, nothing can accelerate as fast as it, and so on. Yet, light is also powerless in certain situations - near a black hole, for example. If god was "light" then there would have to be many gods (i.e. one light god per "universe" - universe being each zone of space with its own horizon) - there is a certain event horizon for our visible universe from which there can be no communication between us and anything outside, and anything occuring in the area out of this sphere has absolutely zero effect on us. The same limitation applies to light. If the universe is expanding at a rate higher than a certain limit, then light from beyond the horizon will never be able to reach us. So no, light cannot represent "god" or the "creator" because quranically, god doesn't have boundaries but light does, in real life.
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Peace "OPF",
I don't think that's a great idea.
The description of light in reality matches parts of the description of god in the quran. It doesn't experience time, nothing can accelerate as fast as it, and so on. Yet, light is also powerless in certain situations - near a black hole, for example. If god was "light" then there would have to be many gods (i.e. one light god per "universe" - universe being each zone of space with its own horizon) - there is a certain event horizon for our visible universe from which there can be no communication between us and anything outside, and anything occuring in the area out of this sphere has absolutely zero effect on us. The same limitation applies to light. If the universe is expanding at a rate higher than a certain limit, then light from beyond the horizon will never be able to reach us. So no, light cannot represent "god" or the "creator" because quranically, god doesn't have boundaries but light does, in real life.
JK- Light/Quantum flux does not have boundaries in an absolute sense. Strange as it may seem but yes the Light in this universe and all possible others existing has subjected Himself to certain laws since everything is made up of light on the smallest scale. the Quran mentions one example where it states that GOD has chosen to take for Himself Mercy over anger if we translate conventionally(could be more to it). What is there apart from that? Its all light upon light. Moreover if there are mutiple universes then the primary Quatum Flux from which all of those arose would still penetrate all of them and would be connected in one way or another. Last but not least regarding time in the quantum realm. Yes indeed this is a difficult issue. Time as WE know it certainly does not exist in that realm. However for it not to be magical there must be some kind of time present there too but since light is the very essence which we use to make all our observations, to study it directly would be impossible unless light could somehow be used to study further light. I believe should this happen we would undertand more about the cause and effects of the quantum realm. The important point to note though is that the quantum flux must have always been there and did have an infinite amount of "time" to "evolve" and thus unite into one Single "conscious" Entity. GOD Bless!
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Okay, so light is not God -- God definitely could not be sucked down a black hole - but then maybe a 'black hole' shows us directly where creation is going back to God!
Where does a black hole lead to? SINGULARITY!!! yay
All that goes down a black hole is squeezed out of existence.
In a black hole, all the laws of physics break down completely, and even space and time disappear.
Black holes are almost invisible and scientists can search for them only via observable phenomena that is characterstic of them, such as a large amount of electromagnetic radiation that is generated from it sucking in all the hydrogen atoms, cosmic particles, and everything else; and its effect on a nearby visible star -- if a visible star can be found which moves as though it were revolving around an invisible star, it's possible that the 'invisible star' is a black hole.
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peace
I don't know what "god" is exactly, but I think it's a metaphor for oneness (or maybe its more than a metaphor).
Why is ONE god stressed so much? Its all about us realizing that there is just one "being" and we're all part of it.There's no difference between us and everyone else. We're all the same. There's no reason for me to treat myself better than everyone else, there's no reason why my life and my desires are of greater importance than everyone else's. That's the essence of morality.
Everything bad that people do is because they create this arbitrary distinction between themselves and the rest. The "us" gets divided into "I" and "them." That what the quran calls "setting up partners with god."
So yeah, the main idol is ourselves. We get rid of that and we can't help but do good.Similarly, I think god can be the one truth/reality. We form false beliefs because we create our own alternate reality and ignore the true one. There cannot be two seperate realities, there's only one.
Salam,
Respectfully.I disagree with you on this issue.
Brother, we are not part of a God.
God is one and He Himself says that He has no partners and no one equal to Him.If we are all the same - and we are - then we cannot be part of anything else but mankind - our ownselves. God is our Creator. God is not human.
Peace.
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Peace "Ilisa",
Okay, so light is not God -- God definitely could not be sucked down a black hole - but then maybe a 'black hole' shows us directly where creation is going back to God!
Where does a black hole lead to? SINGULARITY!!! yay
All that goes down a black hole is squeezed out of existence.
In a black hole, all the laws of physics break down completely, and even space and time disappear.
Black holes are almost invisible and scientists can search for them only via observable phenomena that is characterstic of them, such as a large amount of electromagnetic radiation that is generated from it sucking in all the hydrogen atoms, cosmic particles, and everything else; and its effect on a nearby visible star -- if a visible star can be found which moves as though it were revolving around an invisible star, it's possible that the 'invisible star' is a black hole.
JK- Ofcourse GOD is not merely a light BUT the Light of the heavens and earth meaning the sum of all quantum particles in existence not only in this unverse but any other that might exist. Now as for the BLACK HOLE THEY THEMSELVES ARE ULTIMATELY MADE OUT OF LIGHT/QUANTUM FLUX. What is a black hole? It's a burned out star whose volume has become extremely or its mass compressed into a very small volume. However all mass is made up of quantum particles/waves itself and so is the black hole. So its quantum flux in one form vs quantum flux in ANOTHER FORM in that sense. This is exactly what ive pointed out in my earlier post. GOD Bless!
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Black holes also evaporate away over time and collapse.
Nothing created can match the status of creator. Light nor black holes can be.
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Peace "OPF",
Black holes also evaporate away over time and collapse.
Nothing created can match the status of creator. Light nor black holes can be.
JK- Light does NOT evaporate away neither can it be destroyed. It only changes form. And nobody said that just some mere light is GOD but the summ of all quantum flux/waves/particles in existence. Please try to understand this. GOD Bless!
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Yes, but light is heavily limited in the grand scheme of things. And light can be converted off into matter. Conservation of energy is not conservation of God. Something that can't escape its own creation is not God, can you understand?
Every creation in existance is NOT God.
In a black hole, all the laws of physics break down completely, and even space and time disappear.
Not exactly. Since light is how we get "information", we can't extract information from a "black hole". Nothing special. Life goes on, we just can't know about it.
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Peace "OPF"
Yes, but light is heavily limited in the grand scheme of things. And light can be converted off into matter. Conservation of energy is not conservation of God. Something that can't escape its own creation is not God, can you understand?
JK- Light in part is limited but not the total sum of all light since that is what constitutes everything. And when light is converted into matter IT IS JUST IN ANOTHER FORM. ON THE VERY MINISCULE SCALE IT IS STILL QUANTUM FLUX/LIGHT. And what do you mean by cannot escape its own creation? I think you are again making the mistake of assuming that i sid GOD is just some light which i did not. I made it clear that BOTH black hole as well as the externally present light are BOTH LIGHTs, only the form is different, AND THEY ARE ALSO BOTH CONNECTED(quantumly) IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
Every creation in existance is NOT God.
JK- Who said that? I said the sum of all quantum particles/waves in existence is GOD. Also the INITIAL LIGHT/QUNATUM FLUX IS NOT CREATED. IT WAS ALWAYS THERE. Yes now we say, due to our language actually, that we create light by destroying matter. HOWEVER technically i dont even consider this right. Light is only changing its form again since it was already there just in another form. GOD Bless!
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Peace all,
Alright i have to make a correction here. GOD is the sum of infinite no of quantum flux/particles ALIGNED IN A UNIQUE WAY OVER AN INFINTE AMOUNT OF TIME, the Ultimate Quantum Network so to say Who can control each and everything. Hence yes even if some light could be caught by black holes if you have an infinite amount of quantum flux or even a part of a unique intelligent combination of it approaching it, theres no chance for even a black hole. The Supreme Quantum Network could handle it with infinitesimal ease, put it out of order or anything. So yes all the creation was once part of GOD but was then differentiated/created/separated into what is now independent in a certain sense but still dependent in another. GOD Bless! -
So what you're saying is, that "God" is a "network" of "light" and the way this "network" changes itself becomes "the actions of God". Am I right? That's pantheism. Creation as creator. Definitely plausible but the quran disagrees. Even light has a beginning.
God is said to be all-knowing. If God is "light" then God can't have any knowledge about a black hole or its insides because anything coming out of a black hole will have no information. In other words, God won't even know what part of God is doing or has done.