POLYGAMY NOT THERE IN QURAN?
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Salam eleikum All
First of all i will remined that inspite of to look to the question of woman globaly ,the modern onrientalists stay regurgitating the same points of view of their preceeders in the middel era ,Polygamy ,hijab ,men dominance.
I want to mention her some numbers to those who killed us by their noisy shouding about Polygamy among muslims
The annual number of trafficated humans in USA ( most of them are kidnapped women ,girls ) are about 800 000.
The global annual number is more dramatic about 10 - 15 milions of humans trafficating annualy most of them women , girls( see the UN resources ) ,and the main marked to those is EU ,USA and some of their allians in the oil states in the Golf .Then come and tell me about the rights of muslim women ...........
Yes the polygamy is mentioned in Quran but is it obligatory ,or its an alternative ( solution ) which can resolve sosial problem which is more dangerous and injirious than polygamy it self ( her f.eks the lack of life resources ) .
By another side i want to ask is Islam the only religion which permit this ,of course not .
Iam in Work now so inshalla i will provide you with the suitable translation and occasions of the aya of what you call it polygamy in the next future -
Salam eleikum All
First of all i will remined that inspite of to look to the question of woman globaly ,the modern onrientalists stay regurgitating the same points of view of their preceeders in the middel era ,Polygamy ,hijab ,men dominance.
I want to mention her some numbers to those who killed us by their noisy shouding about Polygamy among muslims
The annual number of trafficated humans in USA ( most of them are kidnapped women ,girls ) are about 800 000.
The global annual number is more dramatic about 10 - 15 milions of humans trafficating annualy most of them women , girls( see the UN resources ) ,and the main marked to those is EU ,USA and some of their allians in the oil states in the Golf .Then come and tell me about the rights of muslim women ...........
Yes the polygamy is mentioned in Quran but is it obligatory ,or its an alternative ( solution ) which can resolve sosial problem which is more dangerous and injirious than polygamy it self ( her f.eks the lack of life resources ) .
By another side i want to ask is Islam the only religion which permit this ,of course not .
Iam in Work now so inshalla i will provide you with the suitable translation and occasions of the aya of what you call it polygamy in the next futureWa aleikum Salam
Well said brother,
In this monogamous society where women are so independent, still global studies have shown that more married men than women have affairs and, I can recall I wives saying ?What he does behind my back is OK? as long as I don?t know about it, such hypocrisy.
The global annual number is more dramatic about 10 - 15 milions of humans trafficating annualy most of them women , girls( see the UN resources ) ,and the main marked to those is EU ,USA and some of their allians in the oil states in the Golf
I am a woman but lucky one and so are those vulnerable Kosovan women who have been tricked into human trafficking. I see them forced into prostitution or begging on the streets of London and that?s when I think ?If only these Muslims knew why polygamy was allowed, no man would joke about it or view it as a privilege to take another wife, but rather would realise that it is in fact a duty to shelter the vulnerable in society.
Through the ages very few have understood the reasons behind polygyny and only a true believer would have the depth in their hearts to see is as a solution to a social evil.is Islam the only religion which permit this ,of course not
Jews have a very tough law where a man can leave his wife yet refuse to divorce her. Should he remarry his deserted wife is still not allowed in religion to marry another man. If she does anyway her children are considered illegitimate.
A Jewish man can go on like this until he has taken three wives. In other words a Jewish man can shackle his wife by not allowing her a divorce, himself free to take one after the other. At least Quran has given a women right to divorce if she prefers not to live in a polygynous marriage.
May we become a tolerant society in true sense.
Best regard -
THE FACT IS THAT YOU CAN'T PROVE WHEN MUHAMMAD MARRIED ANY OF HIS WIVES; WHETHER IT WAS BEFORE OR AFTER QURANIC REVELATION. (ImanQuranonly)
Please do not shout. Al-Ahzaab 50, 51 and 52 proves it
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives?
Yaa ayyuh an nabeyyu! Innaa ahlalna laka azwaaj aka (50)Put off whichever of them thou pleasest
Torjee man tashaa3o minhonnah (51)No women shall henceforth be lawful to thee
Laa yohello laka?n nisaao min ba3do (52)(1)Muhammad had married ALL his wives when God revealed 3352. Just imagine what would happen to him if still married after this verse and thus rebelled against his Sustainer
Say "I only follow what is revealed to me. Behold, I would dread were I to rebel (asaito) against my Sustainer, the suffering on that awesome Day!" (1015)
(2)In 3352 God does not condemn Muhammad for having married his wives before but forbids him to marry from now on ?min ba3du.
The fact that any people who engaged in any activity until it was given as haraam by Allah, did so, does not have anything to do with polygyny.
It definitely does. MIN BA3DO in 3352 means that Muhammad?s earlier action in this regard does not count. What counts is the fact that he never took wife upon wife again after he had been forbidden to marry any more. That means a clearcut abolition of polygyny because you can not have polygyny unless you take wife upon wife.
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
THE FACT IS THAT AL QURAN DOESN'T FORBID POLYGYNY ANYWHERE EXCEPT BETWEEN TWO SISTERS AT THE SAME TIME?
God allows no exceptions. He does not say "You are forbbidden to marry two sisters except two other women such as two mothers of orphans at the same time.
In 2432, God says "Marry the single from among you." This divine command in 2432 is structurally the same as His commad in 629.
Fas3aw el? zikrillah (629)
Wa ankehu?l ayaama minkum (2432)Hasten to the remembrance of God (629).
Marry the single from among you (2432)God forbids us to hasten to the remembrance of, say, al-Lat on the Day of Cogregation. So does He forbid us to marry the married, esspecially when we take into account the fact that polygyny is such an terrible wrong unto women that it has to be forbidden (423)
You are forbidden to marry two sisters together.
Hurrimat alaikum? an tajma3uu baina?l uhtain.God forbids registrars to marry off the married, without exceptions. He forbids men to marry a woman upon her sister, without exceptions such as one mother of orphans upon another.
God forbids polygyny without exceptions.
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
It is God's truth that some people have distorted God's message in 43. Here is the proof
In 410 God warns all momeneen and momenaat against sinfully devouring the possessions of orphans. He threatens them "Those who sinfully devour the possessions of orphan but fill their bellies with fire for, (in the life top come) they will have to endure a blazing flame!"
In 42 He addresses all momeneen and momenaat and warns them again against consuming the possessions of the orphans together with their own possessions, and threatens all momeneen and momenaat once more it is the biggest crime -hooban kabeera, for which you will duely pay in the life to come.
In 43 He surely goes on addressing the same people, momeneen and momenaat and reminds them of the big crime which they should fear to commit "If you fear to be unjust with the orphans, NKH the women..."
If NKH means marry, God is saying "O momeneen and momenaat! Marry the women!" Is this possible? Does God want the momenaat to marry women? Ask yourselves over again
Does God want women to marry women in 43?
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
"Sadaqats" are certainly "chairties" , its combination with Nihalatan solidfies the meaning as something to be given away without expecting a benifit in return, but the problem comes up when the sentence culminates with , "If they forfeit something willingly" brickwall This is a real problem .
we may have to adop a voodoo non conformal but creative and logical approach to solve the above. hmm So let us do some out of the Box thinking. group
siki
I think the problem arises when we think that the addressee in "aatuul nisaa"" are the same ones who are paying the sadaqaat. They are not. It means The sadaqaat already paid by others to the nisaa' "the poor, the needy, and those who are employed to deal with the sadaqaat" should be handed to them in full and willingly, unless they want to forfeit part of it for the community.
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The term employed in the Qur'an for the "dowry" the bridegroom pays the bride is 'ujoor. Sadaqaat is employed in other ayas not meaning 'ujoor but what Samia has just said, if I a don't remember wrong. Is there a reason to change nomenclature in 4.3 and call it something else when in fact it taking it with its usual meaning doesn't present any problem?
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Salaams,
THE FACT IS THAT YOU CAN'T PROVE WHEN MUHAMMAD MARRIED ANY OF HIS WIVES; WHETHER IT WAS BEFORE OR AFTER QURANIC REVELATION. (ImanQuranonly)
Please do not shout.
I didn't shout. I wrote in CAPITAL LETTERS to EMPHASIS a point. Shouting involves vocal chords which you have not heard me use. Please try to be more accurate.
Al-Ahzaab 50, 51 and 52 proves it
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives?
Yaa ayyuh an nabeyyu! Innaa ahlalna laka azwaaj aka (50)Put off whichever of them thou pleasest
Torjee man tashaa3o minhonnah (51)No women shall henceforth be lawful to thee
Laa yohello laka?n nisaao min ba3do (52)(1)Muhammad had married ALL his wives when God revealed 3352. Just imagine what would happen to him if still married after this verse and thus rebelled against his Sustainer
Just imagine what would happen if you posted the ENTIRE ayat instead of just the portion you want to present
Transliteration La yahillu laka alnnisao min baAAdu wala an tabaddala bihinna min azwajin walaw aAAjabaka husnuhunna illa ma malakat yameenuka wakana Allahu AAala kulli shay-in raqeeban
Literal The women are not permitted/allowed to you from after, and nor that you exchange/replace with them (F) from wives , and even if their goodness/beauty pleased/marveled you, except what your right (hand) owned/possessed, and God was/is on every thing observing/watching .And can you tell me in your infinite wisdom which ayaat was revealed first 3352 or 43? (please prove your conclusion from Al Quran)
Say "I only follow what is revealed to me. Behold, I would dread were I to rebel (asaito) against my Sustainer, the suffering on that awesome Day!" (1015)
I think it is safe to say here that Muhammad followed ALL of what was revealed to him, not just portions of the ayaat as you quote them.
(2)In 3352 God does not condemn Muhammad for having married his wives before but forbids him to marry from now on ?min ba3du.
Why would Allah condemn him for what He has already made halaal(43 for example)? Did you erroronesously or intentionally forget that Allah also said "except what your right (hand) owned/possessed,"?
The fact that any people who engaged in any activity until it was given as haraam by Allah, did so, does not have anything to do with polygyny.
It definitely does. MIN BA3DO in 3352 means that Muhammad?s earlier action in this regard does not count. What counts is the fact that he never took wife upon wife again after he had been forbidden to marry any more. That means a clearcut abolition of polygyny because you can not have polygyny unless you take wife upon wife.
Peace,
Hasan AkcayThis command is also ONLY for the Prophet. Not all the believers. It also doesn't stop the Prophet from more MMA. It also forbids the Prophet from divorce and then marrying another wife. So do you think divorce is also prohibited now in Al Quran? that believers can't divorce their wives and then marry another as said in the ayat mentioned?
A clearcut abolition of polygyny would have to say "get rid of all of your wives and MMA except ONE". It doesn't exist in Al Quran. What was given here is a protection for those wives of his that were called by Allah "mothers of the believers". Their status is solidified by Allah and they can not be exchanged and that title given to other women just by marrying the Prophet.
Allah no more forbid polygyny for the Prophet or the believers at large in this ayat, than He did forbid divorce and remarriage for all believers.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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THE FACT IS THAT AL QURAN DOESN'T FORBID POLYGYNY ANYWHERE EXCEPT BETWEEN TWO SISTERS AT THE SAME TIME?
God allows no exceptions. He does not say "You are forbbidden to marry two sisters except two other women such as two mothers of orphans at the same time.
That is such backwards logic that I am not sure where to even begin to address it.
Maybe this will help you to understand; 423 starts a list of whom is prohibited for marriage. It continues in 424 which also includes what is in BOLD below
424
Transliteration Waalmuhsanatu mina alnnisa-i illa ma malakat aymanukum kitaba Allahi AAalaykum waohilla lakum ma waraa thalikum an tabtaghoo bi-amwalikum muhsineena ghayra musafiheena fama istamtaAAtum bihi minhunna faatoohunna ojoorahunna fareedatan wala junaha AAalaykum feema taradaytum bihi min baAAdi alfareedati inna Allaha kana AAaleeman hakeeman
Literal And the married from the women except what your rights owned/possessed (from spoils of war) God's decree/judgment on you, and became/is permitted/allowed for you, what (is) behind that, that you ask/desire with your (P) wealths , marrying not fornicating/adulterating, so what you enjoyed with it, from them (F), so give them (F) their (F) rewards/fees (dowries) a religious duty/command/stipulation ,and no offense/guilt on you in what you (P) mutually agreed with it, from after the religious duty/command/stipulation , that God was/is knowledgeable, wise/judicious.Get it? All others that you seek for marriage are permitted! Do you have any clue now as to why "waan tajmaAAoo bayna al-okhtayni illa ma qad salafa" (and that you combine between the two sisters, except what had preceded) was given?
In 2432, God says "Marry the single from among you." This divine command in 2432 is structurally the same as His commad in 629.
Fas3aw el? zikrillah (629)
Wa ankehu?l ayaama minkum (2432)Hasten to the remembrance of God (629).
Marry the single from among you (2432)I can find way too many "portions" of ayaat in Al Quran that appear to be structurally the same. But since you say these two are, why don't you break them down grammactically and tell us why the grammatical similarity of these "portions" of the two ayaat, support or don't support the permission of polygyny. yeah
God forbids us to hasten to the remembrance of, say, al-Lat on the Day of Cogregation. So does He forbid us to marry the married, esspecially when we take into account the fact that polygyny is such an terrible wrong unto women that it has to be forbidden (423)
There is actually a provision where the married can be married, didn't you notice that above in 424 at the beginning? Where is the exception that al-Lat can be remembered?
Are you really a woman in disguise posing as a man? How many married polygynous woman have you interviewed personally to determine that it is such a terrible wrong done to them? It has to be forbidden according to your irrational emotional nature only, and those like you too of course....is that what you are saying? Where is your Quranic proof of it being a terrible wrong? Please don't try to quote the ayaat that you have presented either incomplete or out of context as your proof.
You are forbidden to marry two sisters together.
Hurrimat alaikum? an tajma3uu baina?l uhtain.God forbids registrars to marry off the married, without exceptions. He forbids men to marry a woman upon her sister, without exceptions such as one mother of orphans upon another.
You and your registrars. Funny. Wouldn't marry off imply that the registrars get to make the choice of who to marry to whom and when? Sounds like you have lived in this type of society and continue to enjoy forced marriages.
What the heck does "He forbids men to marry a woman upon her sister mean? How can a man marry a woman UPON her sister? o Can you say that again in plain english please. (please don't use the weak argument that all women are sisters; cause in that case, all men are brothers and all humans are family and incest is forbidden in the same ayat that you are quoting. So your argument would be destroyed since no one could marry anyone then.)
Do I still need to point you to the married in 424 that can be married? And is it marry or marry off? You seem to choose either one depending on what suits your needs. Or are any people told to "marry" at all in Al Quran. Or are only the registrars told to "marry off" everyone? (according to their desires Im sure according to you)
God forbids polygyny without exceptions.
Peace,
Hasan AkcayHasan Akcay is trying to ATTRIBUTE to Allah the forbidding of polygyny without exceptions!
Haven't you read the ayat that asks who will forbid what Allah has made halaal? &
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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It is God's truth that some people have distorted God's message in 43. Here is the proof
In 410 God warns all momeneen and momenaat against sinfully devouring the possessions of orphans. He threatens them "Those who sinfully devour the possessions of orphan but fill their bellies with fire for, (in the life top come) they will have to endure a blazing flame!"
In 42 He addresses all momeneen and momenaat and warns them again against consuming the possessions of the orphans together with their own possessions, and threatens all momeneen and momenaat once more it is the biggest crime -hooban kabeera, for which you will duely pay in the life to come.
In 43 He surely goes on addressing the same people, momeneen and momenaat and reminds them of the big crime which they should fear to commit "If you fear to be unjust with the orphans, NKH the women..."
If NKH means marry, God is saying "O momeneen and momenaat! Marry the women!" Is this possible? Does God want the momenaat to marry women? Ask yourselves over again
Does God want women to marry women in 43?
Peace,
Hasan AkcayWhat kind of question is that?
First, please post ayat 410 and show where, as you said "In 410 God warns all momeneen and momenaat"
Second, post ayat 42 and show where, as you said "In 42 He addresses all momeneen and momenaat"
Third, your point is invalidated because you don't understand that even if what you said existed did in fact exist, the plural masculine form "can include the feminine" as well, but doesn't HAVE TO. The context is what determines whether or not it does. Since women obviously can't marry women, 43 has to be addressing MEN only.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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Peace All,
I have a question about a verse, which I thought was relevant to the discussion at hand, but might not be. Kindly let me know your thoughts about it.
2432 - "Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace for Allah encompasseth all, and he knoweth all things." (Yusuf Ali)
Now my question is, who do you think that this verse is applicable to?
(1) Men,
(2) Women, or
(3) Both men and women.Without any preconceptions, I think that it is applicable to both. I would love to hear your thoughts about it.
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Peace All,
I have a question about a verse, which I thought was relevant to the discussion at hand, but might not be. Kindly let me know your thoughts about it.
2432 - "Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace for Allah encompasseth all, and he knoweth all things." (Yusuf Ali)
Now my question is, who do you think that this verse is applicable to?
(1) Men,
(2) Women, or
(3) Both men and women.Without any preconceptions, I think that it is applicable to both. I would love to hear your thoughts about it.
I agree. However, I would like the translation to be more precise. The Arabic words corresponding to the virtuous ones, male or female is wa's saaleheena min ebaad ekum wa emaa ekum. EBAAD male slaves, EMAA female slaves
Wa ankehuu'l ayaama minkum
Marry off the single from among youWa's saaleheena min ebaad ekum wa emaa ekum
and virtuous male and female slaves of yoursPeace,
Hasan Akcay -
It is clear to me that it is addressed to both men and women.
Salaam
Sister huruf / Br. Hasan,
Thanks for indulging my question. Now, since it is clear to you that 2432 is addressed to both men and women, my next question is how can a woman (single or widowed) marry a married man, without going against this verse?
Peace
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Sister huruf / Br. Hasan,
Thanks for indulging my question. Now, since it is clear to you that 2432 is addressed to both men and women, my next question is how can a woman (single or widowed) marry a married man, without going against this verse?
Peace
2432 And marry off those among you that are single, and the good from among your male and female servants. If they are poor, then God will grant them from His grace. And God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
"Marry off" indicates that the ones being married off are dependents, and that this sign is directed to parents/guardians of those dependent ones. The independents do not get "married off" but they "marry". In the past, brother Hasan said that the registrar at the marriage ceremony of the independents is "marrying them off", but that is fallacious logic. The registrar is not "marrying them off" but just witnessing their marriage ceremony. "Marry off" implies dependency, and implies parents or guardians, and not a registrar.
The "wa" here could also be considered to be describing "those among you" since it is not specific as to who those among you are; i.e. the believers, etc. Hence the mentioning of "if they are poor". I have some more to add, but I have to run now so I will have to do it later, Allah willing.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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....
Wa ankehuu'l ayaama minkum
Marry off the single from among you....
Tanveer on December 09, 2007, 091618 PM
2432 And marry off those among you that are single, and the good from among your male and female servants. If they are poor, then God will grant them from His grace. And God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable."Marry off" indicates that the ones being married off are dependents, and that this sign is directed to parents/guardians of those dependent ones. The independents do not get "married off" but they "marry". In the past, brother Hasan said that the registrar at the marriage ceremony of the independents is "marrying them off", but that is fallacious logic. The registrar is not "marrying them off" but just witnessing their marriage ceremony. "Marry off" implies dependency, and implies parents or guardians, and not a registrar.
....
Peace Br. Hasan & IQO,
I apologize for my ignorance regarding this matter, but how did you translate "Waankihoo" to "and marry off"?
This is the literal translation of that verse that I got from www.openburhan.net
2432 - "And marry the widows/widowers from you, and the correct/righteous from your slaves/servants and your owned (F) slaves, if they be poor/needy God enriches/suffices them from His grace/favour/blessing, and God (is) rich/spread , knowledgeable."
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And can you tell me in your infinite wisdom which ayaat was revealed first 3352 or 43?
Muhammad was forbidden to marry after (min ba3du) 3352. This is God?s truth, and stands true even if 3352 was revealed before 43. Muhammad obeyed 3352; that is, he did not marry a woman upon his present wives.
Why would Allah condemn him for what He has already made halaal (43 for example)?
In 43 God has not made polygyny halaal; otherwise, it would contradict the verses that forbids polygyny for one thing; for another, He would be saying "O momenaat! Marry the nisaa."
Did you erroronesously or intentionally forget that (in 3352. H A) Allah also said "except what your right (hand) owned/possessed,"?
I did not forget but decided to explain it when somebody brings it up
Muhammad has already married his ma malakat yameen as in 3350 God lets him know Inna ahlalnaka? We have made halaal to thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid dowers, as well as those whom thy oath owns.
However, these two types of marriages are different. In the former, human witnesses marry off the groom; that is, he formally says "Yes, I do!" in the presence of human witnesses. In the latter, he announces his oath (yameen) of marriage to God. And although he gives the news to the people for their information, they are not his formal witnesses.
Therefore Muhammad is not to marry anew those whom his oath had; he can only change the type of his marriage with them. Oterwise, God's fobidding Muhammad to marry (other) women gets void and null.
This command (for Muyhammad not to marry any more. H A) is also ONLY for the Prophet. Not all the believers.
This is the fake approach to God?s religion, which has relegated it to a laughing stock. Just imagine. God forbids His Prophet to take wife upon wife; the Prophet strictly obeys it, and yet his followers do not give a heck; they simply go on taking wife upon wife. This is not Islam!
Is 629, which allows you to hasten to the remembrance of God, only Muhammad?s business? Is 2432, which allows you to marry off the single, only Muhammad?s business?
It definitely is fake becuase the people who claim that God?s command in 3352 is only Muhammad?s business are the very same people who claim that polygamy is allowed because Muhammad had married wife upon wife befor 3352.
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
The idea of two marriages, one being under oath and one being under witness is a bit strange, how is it covered in quranic law? How is it different from "fornication + oath"?
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Peace Br. Hasan & IQO,
I apologize for my ignorance regarding this matter, but how did you translate "Waankihoo" to "and marry off"?
This is the literal translation of that verse that I got from www.openburhan.net
2432 - "And marry the widows/widowers from you, and the correct/righteous from your slaves/servants and your owned (F) slaves, if they be poor/needy God enriches/suffices them from His grace/favour/blessing, and God (is) rich/spread , knowledgeable."
The verb in 2432 is ANKAHA, which means marry off. However, there appears this problem in the English translations The verb marry means marry off as well. For example, when a mother says to her husband "Honey, marry our daughters!" it means marry them off. But if she says, "Let's relive our wedding. Honey, marry me!" it means make me your wife.
NAKAHA means marry
An-Nisaa 22
Wa la tankehoo ma nakaha abaa ekum mine?n nisaa?
Do not marry women whom your fathers have married.Al-Ahzaab 53
Wa ma kaana lakum an tankehoo azwaaj aho min ba3dehee
It would not behove you to marry the Prophet?s widowsAl-Momtaheena 10
Wa la jonaaha alaikom an tankeh oohonna
It will not be sinful of you to marry themANKAHA means marry off
Al-Noor 32
Wa ankeho?l ayaama minkom
Marry off the single from among youAl-Kasas 27
Innee oreedo an yonkeh aka ihtabnatayya
I intend to marry one of my two daughters off to you.Peace,
Hasan Akcay