Support the mistress as well as the wife

M_Mehdi

Salam

In polygyny there is a transparency of relationship; no more hiding behind monogomy. Sheltering behind that concept is what I call hypocricy and it's unfair to women like Sarah who then resort to other despicale ways to take their revenge.

This is what I call A man's world

Hold on a sec though... doesn't the "mistress" know she's gettin with a "married" man to begin with? Where's her responsibilty in all that? Two wrongs don't make a right... ?!

Dig what OPF said here

There is no question that polygyny happens, legal or otherwise. Islam just puts safeguards on it.

peace

Alen

As salaam aleikum
Equal rights for all women!! Have your say
excerpts from Having An Affair, by Sarah J. Symonds,
"Wives and mistresses have a lot in common. I am all for wives having as much as they can get if a marriage goes wrong, but the mistress should be treated in the same way.
"They are sharing half a man. He is getting the best of both of them. I am saying support the mistress as well as the wife. I am very mercenary about that."
http//www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=501371&in_page_id=1879
Best regards

Salam,
Respectfully.

Correction, equal rights for all - men and women.
Correction. Man should not have a mistress.

No disrespect.

Peace.

G_Omar

As salaam aleikum

Equal rights for all women!! Have your say

excerpts from Having An Affair, by Sarah J. Symonds,

"Wives and mistresses have a lot in common. I am all for wives having as much as they can get if a marriage goes wrong, but the mistress should be treated in the same way.
"They are sharing half a man. He is getting the best of both of them. I am saying support the mistress as well as the wife. I am very mercenary about that."

Peace Farida,

I agree, Mistresses should absolutely be awarded the same rights as the wives. The current discrepancy in rights acts as an instigation for mistresses to urge for the husband to divorce his wife, further inflaming the wife/mistress relationship, often leaving children uncared for by their father.

Also the secrecy of the the affair on the side increaces the risk of crime like murder when it is eventually revealed.

http//www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=501371&in_page_id=1879

Best regards

farida

Salam,
Respectfully.

Correction, equal rights for all - men and women.
Correction.
No disrespect.

Peace.

Salaam to all

Man should not have a mistress.

What one should do and what one does are two different things. Be it those who follow monogomy or those who adopt polygyny
Mehdi... doesn't the "mistress" know she's gettin with a "married" man to begin with? Where's her responsibilty in all that?
Yes every other woman is stupid but so is the wife who stands by her adulterous husband ...its always women who are wrong Huh?
Best regards
farida

farida

Really, I don't think that . I haven't read all the Quranic verses on marriage, but I struggle to understand why, Roshan

Exactly!!!
It is a bit of rebellious fun. Marrying them would make it boring

So have fun but No responsibility

if the soul of a man and women are worth the same, how one man can be married to more than one woman.

So marry one and use and abuse others

M_Mehdi

Mehdi... doesn't the "mistress" know she's gettin with a "married" man to begin with? Where's her responsibilty in all that?
Yes every other woman is stupid but so is the wife who stands by her adulterous husband ...its always women who are wrong Huh?
Best regards
farida

Woah Sis...! how did you ever get that "it's always women who are wrong" ??!! I did say "two wrongs don't make a right.

This is why I liked OPF's posts..from my understanding.. it has to be out in the open and mutal and equal in all senses...

I think alot of it is also based on western outlook of Walt Disney style of love too... meaning many get their ideas of love, marriage, and morality.. from such places... "happily ever after" type ideas... the princess gets her prince.. and vice versa..

This type of topic always also reminds me of the story of the "King and I" how western culture took over the king and now thailand has become of the world's whore hourses... there are reasons for everything.. sometimes our ideas of morality get in the way of reality...

peace

So marry one and use and abuse others

sadly enough this is what usually happens.. please refer to OPF's post!

Sharp001

Sis. farida,

RealityThe above reference is about a real woman Lord Jeffery Archers ex lover "Sarah Symonds doesn't have a lot to recommend from her time as a mistress. Much of it was spent in isolation, alone in a luxury Westminster apartment - "my ivory palace" - paid for by another of her multi-millionaire lovers."

Mildly put, I am a little concerned about your above definition of a "real woman" in the form of Ms. Sarah Symonds. I'll put that question to you now as well as all other sisters on the forum. What do you really want from life?

(1) Money/Luxury.
(2) Love/Sincerity.
(3) Independence/Liberation.

"Ideally", you will want all of them, but we all know that isn't "real". It's only when women are shown the illusion of obtaining the "Ideal" scenario that the problems begins. Also, one more question for you? The most affected people by the polygynous relationship are neither the husband nor the wives (old or new) but the children. What are they putting the child through? Every child (or at least me) wishes for a happy family but a 2nd mother in addition to the first just indicates otherwise. Why did my father marry another woman? Didn't they love each other? Where does that leave me? Am I just a biological product and not a product of their love and affection for each other? Low self-esteem. It would get worse for the children when the children from the new wife start taking precedence over the orignal children. I can't think of anything worse. If you ask me what I would do as a husband with children, if I were in an unhappy marriage, I would forego my desire to re-marry just so that my children have all the mental and psychological health that they can have. To that effect, I don't need to assert that I will never risk an extra-marital affair because of its effect on my children.

I am sorry if I sounded incoherent or impractical, but it is a subject I feel very strongly about.

Peace

farida

o Woah Sis...! how did you ever get that "it's always women who are wrong" ??!! I did say "two wrongs don't make a right.

This is why I liked OPF's posts..from my understanding.. it has to be out in the open and mutal and equal in all senses...

I think alot of it is also based on western outlook of Walt Disney style of love too... meaning many get their ideas of love, marriage, and morality.. from such places... "happily ever after" type ideas... the princess gets her prince.. and vice versa..

This type of topic always also reminds me of the story of the "King and I" how western culture took over the king and now thailand has become of the world's whore hourses... there are reasons for everything.. sometimes our ideas of morality get in the way of reality...

peace
sadly enough this is what usually happens.. please refer to OPF's post! )

Salaam Mehdi
OPF is talking about polygyny..man taking wives

... meaning many get their ideas of love, marriage, and morality

So morality is nowhere to be seen or expected?
Reality is that more happily married men have affairs then happily married women (this research is done by west I dont have referece with me otherwies I would have posted it) but you can see that from the example of Mrs Clinton and Mrs Archer
Best regards
farida

farida

Sis. farida,

Mildly put, I am a little concerned about your above definition of a "real woman" in the form of Ms. Sarah Symonds. I'll put that question to you now as well as all other sisters on the forum. What do you really want from life?

(1) Money/Luxury.
(2) Love/Sincerity.
(3) Independence/Liberation.

"Ideally", you will want all of them, but we all know that isn't "real". It's only when women are shown the illusion of obtaining the "Ideal" scenario that the problems begins. Also, one more question for you? The most affected people by the polygynous relationship are neither the husband nor the wives (old or new) but the children. What are they putting the child through? Every child (or at least me) wishes for a happy family but a 2nd mother in addition to the first just indicates otherwise. Why did my father marry another woman? Didn't they love each other? Where does that leave me? Am I just a biological product and not a product of their love and affection for each other? Low self-esteem. It would get worse for the children when the children from the new wife start taking precedence over the orignal children. I can't think of anything worse. If you ask me what I would do as a husband with children, if I were in an unhappy marriage, I would forego my desire to re-marry just so that my children have all the mental and psychological health that they can have. To that effect, I don't need to assert that I will never risk an extra-marital affair because of its effect on my children.

I am sorry if I sounded incoherent or impractical, but it is a subject I feel very strongly about.

Peace

Real woman meant this woman exists.

I respect you for thinking of children's plight but Mr Clinton and Mrs Archer's grown up children knew that their father had an affair.. is it okey that he cheated on their mother. Children suffer badly when their father divorces their mothers for another woman because the law says they can only have one wife.

Roshan posted earlier It is a bit of rebellious fun. Marrying them would make it boring
Mr Archer and Mr Clinton would have thought twice if the women they had affairs with had right to marry them and would have insisted on marrying.

As always best regards

M_Mehdi

Salam Farida,

Salaam Mehdi
OPF is talking about polygyny..man taking wives

agreed.. that's why I thought it was good. Instead of taking "mistresses" these men should be stepping up! But again.. it's less likely to find women who would agree to such a circumstance... my grandmother's husband has two wifes... when I think of the model of a strong and independent woman.. my grandmother is the first to come to my mind.. they've been married for many many years.. and it works great for them all... if you were to meet her husband.. I think would be kinda funny because her husband is a very kind, loving and one might say a very meek man... the exact opposite of those macho types who take mistresses... I could completely see how such a situation may work out.. but again.. there is a difference between love.. and lust too.. too many times those who take mistresses and vice versa may be doing it from lust.. and not love...

So morality is nowhere to be seen or expected?
Reality is that more happily married men have affairs then happily married women (this research is done by west I dont have referece with me otherwies I would have posted it) but you can see that from the example of Mrs Clinton and Mrs Archer

I agree with you.. Unfortunately that's how Disney morality is creating reality... I believe morality based on reality is somewhere to be found... and at the same time I understand that much of moralities that we've come to know, stem from cultural aspects.. hence creating instances of subjective realities which people adopt to be "truths."

peace... peace

farida

Salam Farida,

agreed.. that's why I thought it was good. Instead of taking "mistresses" these men should be stepping up! But again.. it's less likely to find women who would agree to such a circumstance... my grandmother's husband has two wifes... when I think of the model of a strong and independent woman.. my grandmother is the first to come to my mind.. they've been married for many many years.. and it works great for them all... if you were to meet her husband.. I think would be kinda funny because her husband is a very kind, loving and one might say a very meek man... the exact opposite of those macho types who take mistresses... I could completely see how such a situation may work out.. but again.. there is a difference between love.. and lust too.. too many times those who take mistresses and vice versa may be doing it from lust.. and not love...

I agree with you.. Unfortunately that's how Disney morality is creating reality... I believe morality based on reality is somewhere to be found... and at the same time I understand that much of moralities that we've come to know, stem from cultural aspects.. hence creating instances of subjective realities which people adopt to be "truths."

peace... peace

Salaam Mehdi

Exactly!! It takes a very strong man/woman to face reality and not live in a dream world, understand the reality. meaning of caring and sharing that in giving you receive.
Best regards

M_Mehdi

It takes a very strong man/woman to face reality and not live in a dream world, understand the reality. meaning of caring and sharing that in giving you receive.

True word!

peace

Sharp001

Sis. farida & Br. Mehdi,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel that for you what is real is what is actually happening in the world, whether it be right or wrong. I mean, do you actually think that it will stop at a man having many wives? Caring is sharing so, why shouldn't the men share their wives with other men? Let their wives get married to other men, and we'll get a jolly good family, where everyone is loving and sharing and caring.

Peace

M_Mehdi

Salam Sharp001,

My 2cents..

Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel that for you what is real is what is actually happening in the world, whether it be right or wrong. I mean, do you actually think that it will stop at a man having many wives? Caring is sharing so, why shouldn't the men share their wives with other men? Let their wives get married to other men, and we'll get a jolly good family, where everyone is loving and sharing and caring.

Reality encompasses more than what is only in this dunya... perhaps what happens more in this world (as in part of human life) is more a product of subjective reality.... cultural morality... however we can't close our eyes to it and ignore it... nor get sucked into its mere fantasies...

I think as for the part about "share their wives with other men.. etc " Again please refer to OPF's post regarding the safe guards within the Quran on this subject.. there is sacredness to marriage (or at least can be). It's beyond the simple lust of sex and mistresses etc...

Do you believe for a man to have more than one wife is wrong?

peace

huruf

I can't remember the aya, but the Qur'an says that an adulterer cannot be married except to an adulteress and an adulteress can only be married to an adulterer.

It has been said that a mistress should not become involved with a married man, but it should also be clear that a cheated wife should divorce. On the other hand, not every mistress, may be not most of the mistresses, know that the man they are dating is married until later. So in fact, I can't see that any one is blameless, although it is clear that the capital culprit is the adulterer and lier. There is where we should start.

Although I don't want to shatter anybody's good intentions and thoughts about helping society accepting sharing of scarce human ressources, with men like those described aove, I doubt that even if there was legal poligamy they would make use of it. They would always choose to have a mistress and not a wife. It is not that they have a mistress because they cannot have a second or third or whatever wife. They pick a mistress because that is EXACTLY what they want.

Now for the real need of poligamy, where one should start is counting the number of females as against the number of males. Withdraw from the latter the number of adulterers, the number of gays, the number of irresponsible, the number of men who simple want celibacy and don't experience the urge either for a wife or a mistress, and any other category hard to entrust with the burden of one wife+kids, let alone more than one wife+kids. Withdraw from the women any category who would qualify as not capable or not interested in marriage or adulteresses. Then see how both figures, marriageable men and marriageable women, match and we should get some idea of whether to have a legal frame for poligamy would be useful or not, and eventually of what kind.

Salaam,

Sharp001

Salam Sharp001,

My 2cents..

Reality encompasses more than what is only in this dunya... perhaps what happens more in this world (as in part of human life) is more a product of subjective reality.... cultural morality... however we can't close our eyes to it and ignore it... nor get sucked into its mere fantasies...

Peace Br. Mehdi,

I am interested to know what you think is the role of the Book in this "reality".

I think as for the part about "share their wives with other men.. etc " Again please refer to OPF's post regarding the safe guards within the Quran on this subject.. there is sacredness to marriage (or at least can be). It's beyond the simple lust of sex and mistresses etc...

As for sacredness of marriage (which in your view can be either a monogamous or a polygynous one), why would a married woman marriage to another not be as "sacred"?

Do you believe for a man to have more than one wife is wrong?

In the straightest of answers, I do. Why? because I feel for me that it is liable to cause more problems than it solves. I don't want to marry anybody other than in addition to whoever my original wife would be. Period. I don't feel right about it, for my sake, for her sake and for my children's sake. Upto now in my life, however inexperienced I might be in comparison to others here in the forum, I have yet to come across a problem, the solution to which is polygamy.

Peace.

M_Mehdi

Salam Sharp001,

In the straightest of answers, I do. Why? because I feel for me that it is liable to cause more problems than it solves. I don't want to marry anybody other than in addition to whoever my original wife would be. Period. I don't feel right about it, for my sake, for her sake and for my children's sake. Upto now in my life, however inexperienced I might be in comparison to others here in the forum, I have yet to come across a problem, the solution to which is polygamy.

This reminds of a mystic who midely joked about this subject. He said, "Where God's law doesn't protect a man from women.. man's law will!!" Ofcourse it's a baised joke and way to look at it.

I believe for you the key words for you are that "I don't feel right about it.. " not more than anything more need to be said or forced on you regarding the subject...

but at what point will one go to force thier way of life onto others?

at the same time what I see in my relationship my grandmother holds with her husband and other wife.. I can understand where they do (and have been for a long time) feel right about it and how it works for them... They all get the attention and support they need.. and they share a life together based on those needs and wants... of course the two wifes do not live in the same house but will meet with eachother on occasion..

As for sacredness of marriage (which in your view can be either a monogamous or a polygynous one), why would a married woman marriage to another not be as "sacred"?

Are you saying a married woman who is married to a man get married to another woman.. basicly are you talking about gay marriage or a woman who has multiple husbands? Please let me know... or if even if you think there is a difference...

I am interested to know what you think is the role of the Book in this "reality".

I think.. the role of the Book.. in this form is as we see here on this thread... once again.. I can't get past OPF's post for this matter...

There is no question that polygyny happens, legal or otherwise. Islam just puts safeguards on it.

OPF may mean one thing... and there also maybe others who thing another... no matter what.. there is no question that it does happen.. legal or otherwise.. the state of Utah in the US would be a good case study... the Quran puts safeguards on it... meaning... it sets criteria to follow... I see this in my grandmothers case... some may disagree about what they are doing... but wouldn't be able to disagree weather it's working or not...

ok.. let me know...

peace

M_Mehdi

Salam..

Now for the real need of poligamy, where one should start is counting the number of females as against the number of males. Withdraw from the latter the number of adulterers, the number of gays, the number of irresponsible, the number of men who simple want celibacy and don't experience the urge either for a wife or a mistress, and any other category hard to entrust with the burden of one wife+kids, let alone more than one wife+kids. Withdraw from the women any category who would qualify as not capable or not interested in marriage or adulteresses. Then see how both figures, marriageable men and marriageable women, match and we should get some idea of whether to have a legal frame for poligamy would be useful or not, and eventually of what kind.

Very legal of looking at it... as much as what you say makes sense.. love is quite illogical...

peace

farida

Sis. farida & Br. Mehdi,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel that for you what is real is what is actually happening in the world, whether it be right or wrong. I mean, do you actually think that it will stop at a man having many wives? Caring is sharing so, why shouldn't the men share their wives with other men? Let their wives get married to other men, and we'll get a jolly good family, where everyone is loving and sharing and caring.

Peace

Salaam

For now I'm only using the example of two modern women Mrs Clinton and Mrs Archer who are both educated and liberated women. What stopped them from doing what their husbands did? Why are women different from men ???

I tell you in giving you receive, because if you give the same right to the other woman and she insist on her right to be taken as a wife , than clearly she is not cheaply avalible for fun only and that is when its less likely that many men would cheat as taking more wives means more responsibilty and likely more children which is not easy.

Polygony has been allowed in traditional Muslim countries but very few had taken two wives ..its only when they struck oil in the middle east that you see them exploiting this.
There are some cults who tried a culture of sharing husband and wife but this fad has not taken off. People still like to stick with the old couple-concept. ....As OPF said Qur'an only puts safegurds

Best regards

unknownuser

What stops women, is the same reason that brothels exist in abundance yet stud-farms are rare.