How do you pray?
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Salam,
Assalaam Alaikum
I would ask you to give your response to my two questions9108 You shall never pray in such a masjid. A masjid that is ESTABLISHED ON THE BASIS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS from the first day is more worthy of your praying therein. In it, there are people who love to be purified. GOD loves those who purify themselves
A
The majority of the mosques that I know of are built with funds, collected through donations from anyone willing to donate money. No investigation to see if the income of those who donate are in real sense pure is carried out. A lottery winner?s money is deposited in the same funds as the rest, which may be from pure sources.
My duty, as per the Quran,( see above verse) is first of all to investigate, who has contributed towards the building of the mosque.Q1 Have you found such a mosque?
Peace,
I think you are being extreme. First let me say that I do not go to Mosques exclusively. A Masjid is a place of worship, i.e. a Temple. That could be a Church, a synogogue or a Muslim mosque. So I do not make such distinctions because the original Arabic does not. Being established on the basis of righteousness is more about intentions then funds. And being established does not have to be when that place was first built. The quality of a place of worship is determined by the quality of people in it. That is it establishment. Usus also mean basis, and assasa also means to base something, as well as to establish. As far as someone winning the loterry, I don't think that is evil. It is the distribution of money randomly that is evil not the recieving of it. Just like it is the charging of interest that makes it wrong (and that makes it interest). If you do not charge interest but someone gives you an extra percentage of their money as a gift, that is not interest. I don't think your duty is to investigate the funds used to establish that mosque but the quality of that mosque and the motivations of the people there.
B
Once established the mosque worth praying in should have an Imam who subscribes to the Quranic criterion ?And I ask you of no wages therefore my wages is the concern of the Lord of the world?, (26- 109,127,145,164,180).Almost every mosque has imams, whose wages are paid by the mosque authorities thus leading prayers is their paid job. IMHO it is extremely unlikely that such prayers would be accepted by God.
So what about those that stand behind such Imams?Q2I would be very interested to know if you have indeed found such worthy mosque/Imam?
9111 GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph.
Again, if a congregation wants to pay their Imam to help him out is that wages or charity? Furthermore I only see the necessity of leading prayers in times of war using Quranic context. If being an Imam impedes him in some way then giving him money is charity. I know of many Imams who don't recieve money from Charity payments to the Mosque. If such a practice is obligatory without good reason then there is a problem, definitely. About Imams; I don't care about the office of an Imam. It is a made up position anyway. To me if the people there are happy with him as a leader/forerunner in his community which is the real meaning of Imam then so be it. Anyone can be an Imam, it only means a leader or a forerunner. So I don't concern myself with offices of Imams, but I do talk to the Imams in masjids to assess their ideas and opinions. In my mind such things are of no real import because I know what the Arabic really means and what the function of those people is in their communities, functions which are not always bad and which are at the least very democratic (as far as I have seen).
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace.
WHere are the quranic verses that indicate where you get this 24434? did you not take the hadith and then try to jusztify it through this article you posted? I would be interested in some quranic verses that talk about 5 prayers a day?
Alot of what I seen said glorify your Lord morning and evening. I have not seen anything about 5 prayers? I seen another verse that said somehting about dont mind or worry about those whlo glorify the grace of their Lord morning and evening. what about the numerous verses talking about propehts I think one was loooking at horses during the dusk and forogt to glorify the grace of his Lord.
How can you ignore the many verses talking about morning and evening sun up and sun down and justify it anyway through math or what not? I am not understanding where this 24434 comes from originally?
I am lost. Please clarify your thoughts with quranic evidence not copy and paste another article from another website... I think I seen this article before and I still dont get it
I belive in the miracle 19, but how does that go into the 24434? and what the heck is a "gematrical value?" talk in common english so i can get you... explain yourself please
If you speak the truth please expalin it from quranic verses and explain where the numbers 24434 came from? I have never seen a verse that says anything about 24434?
Salaam,
I am new to embracing Islam fully, but am a staunch believer of Dr. Khalifa's findings as regards to the miracle of 19. There seems to be a great debate as to whether one should pray 3 or 5 times a day. The information I'm providing is from his research as well as verses from the Quran.
Those familiar with Quran know that there is no specific verse that says we should pray 5 times a day. The prayers are mentioned among several verses and what seems to be at debate is the interpretation of those verses.
24434 (which is 19*1286) is the number of Rakas for each prayer starting from dawn until night if we are indeed suppose to pray 5 times. Dr Kahlifa and Edip Yuskel I believe found many mathematical correlations when combining 24434 with the awesome 19 based correlations with Al Fatehah, which is what we say when we pray to God.
Another aspect of the Quran? s mathematical design is the use of the gematrical values of the Arabic letters. The gematrical value of a letter is the numerical value assigned to it. When the Quran was revealed, fourteen centuries ago, numbers as we know them today did not exist. Instead, there was a universally accepted numerical system where the letters of the Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek alphabets were used as numerals. The number assigned to each letter is considered to be its gematrical value. Table 4 gives the gematrical values of each letter in the Arabic alphabet, which is listed in its original order. The order of the letters in the modern day Arabic alphabet is slightly different. Also in the same table, the English equivalent letters are given in parentheses. The choice of the English letters used is based simply on the sounds of the Arabic letters. The bold fonts indicate stronger voiced letters.
I've tried to attach the conversion table to this post if it doesn't work, you can view or download 'Beyond Probability' which contains the table and is excellent reading besides.
http//www.masjidtucson.org/downloads/index.html
- The Dawn Prayer must be observed during two hours before sunrise
Three of the Five Prayers
You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heedO you who believe, permission must be requested by your servants and the children who have not attained puberty (before entering your rooms). This is to be done in three instances -before the Dawn Prayer, at noon when you change your clothes to rest, and after the Night Prayer. These are three private times for you. At other times, it is not wrong for you or them to mingle with one another. GOD thus clarifies the revelations for you. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.
- The Noon Prayer is due when the sun declines from its highest point
at noon.
You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.
- The Afternoon Prayer can be observed during the 3-4 hours preceding
sunset (223.
You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer, and devote yourselves totally to GOD.
2238 All five prayers are found in 2238, 11114, 1778, & 2458. When the Quran was revealed, the Contact Prayers (Salat) had already been in existence (Appendix 9). The details of all five prayers-what to recite and the number of units (Rak'aas) per prayer, etc.-are mathematically confirmed. For example, writing down the number of units for each of the five prayers, next to each other, we get 24434, 19x1286. Also, if we use
• to represent Sura 1 (Al-F?tehah), where
• =the sura number (1), followed by the number of verses (7), followed by the number of each verse, the number of letters in each verse, and the gematrical value of every letter, writing down 2 () )() 4 () () () () 4 () () () () 3 () () () 4 () () () () produces a multiple of 19-
The Sunset Prayer becomes due after sunset (11114).
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The Night Prayer can be observed after the twilight disappears from
the sky (245.
I hope this was helpful to you.
Peace,
Bob from Maine
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Salamun Alaykum all sun
I'd like some clarification on the "salat words" derived from AQ17111. My copy of the arabic transliteration of this verse is as below
"Wa qulil-hamdu lillahil-lazee lam yattakhiz waladan wa lam yakul-lahoo shareekun fil-mulki wa lam yakul-lahoo waliyyum-minaz-zulli wa kabbirhu takbeeraa."
Now the salat words above
"Al-Hamdu l'Allah alazee lam yatakhez waladan, wa lam yakun lahu shareek fee al mulk, wa lam yakun lahu waleyon min al zol."
My question is on the acceptability of the derivation because obviously "wa qulil" can't be used and we also have to cut "wa kabbirhu takbeeraa".
Any thoughts?
Peace. jedi
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Peace,
This is a good example of following the Sunnah of our last prophet derived from the Quran. the qul is obviously to our last prophet. My advice would be to imitate the saying. So leave out the qul, say the rest and then where it says kabbirhu takbeeran, say Allahu Akbaru! with true feeling and as many times as you want, exalt him, as it says.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Salaam Anwar
Thank you for answering my questions.
Just because my understanding of the Qur'an differs from yours, you claim that I am an extremist?
Best regards
faridaRight . . . . hmm That's why I said you were being an extreme . . . nope And I didn't know that I had used the term extremist (which is very different from what I said) confused
Please don't jump to conclusions. I just think you are digging a little too deep and hence, there is no need for me to do so. The quality of a mosque and what it is based on can be assessed by the quality of people that attend it. But it is your choice if you will not attend a mosque until you know where every cent involved in its founding came from. I just think this is a little extreme (again, not calling you an extremist). And I'm just giving you my honest assessment. What a way to miss the point and just take things too far. Figures. Peace. peaceGodbless,
Anwar -
Peace and Salutations again to you progod,
Thanks for the answers. It was enlightening and delightful to read. I completely understand where you are at and agree with your understanding of your surroundings, etc. May Allah continue to guide and bless you and your family!
As Salaamu alaikum, angel
Peace and Salutations to you as well,
I don't mind the questions. They do not seem fecescious (forgot how to spell this word). Anyway, when I pray with traditional Muslims I do not recite the tashahhud/tahhiyah. I don't believe I should be greeting any of God's prophets in my prayer to God. Also I don't remember it anymore. But part of me forgetting it was choosing not to recite it anymore. As for the tasleem, that's all good to me. Whether it is to greet the angels (the Quran confirms that they are around us) or to the others praying, I don't see anything wrong with that.
My wife is not Spanish, but she is Dominican and a Spanish speaker (Hispanics are in truth not Spanish, nor are they one race these are misnomers and myths) . She is Christian. Before I married her I made it clear that she worshipped only God and that God is more important than Jesus (God bless him). I perfectly agree with her following Christ's words which I clarified for her is what true Christians follow, and that is not only Quranic but just plain old logical. She is fine with that. As for her praying to God in Jesus name well I won't do it but I accept her doing it. I understand that it is more like provoking a seal or a token that God accepts and her belief in the Messiah is going to be reflected in her heart and God knows if she is really following Christ (through his words) or not. It's kind of like wa muhammadarrasoolullahi. It's not something bad to say but it is not necessary either, it is only a ritual that those who follow Christ's words are to do, and if such a Christian does not believe that Christ is God (like my wife) or that he is his only son (my wife knows that this is a metaphor used for other godly people as well and that that passage in John can also mean unique son) then there is no harm is there? She has read a great deal of a Spanish translation of the Quran. It is not a great translation to me but I helped her understand a few unclear things and what a translation really is. She openly agreed to and accepted what she understood of this Quranic translation without any encouragement. Otherwise I do my best to fill her in into Quranic topics or Classical Arabic as well when she shows interest. But again, the main poitn is submission and service to the god of Abraham. And that along with using intelligence, reason and Classical Arabic will guide the religious education of my children.
The Quran is clear about what their religion should be Submission to God. To me the most important thing is for them to submit to God, I will teach them the Quran and I will even teach them Jesus words. I want them to be familiar with the Bible and the hadeeth but to know what they really are. So none of that tradition stuff creates any problems for me. It will be their choice in the end, but as long as they only serve God and submit to him I am fine. And I don't think that if they chose to follow the Quran that that would be betraying the principles of their mother's faith at all. Remember those Christians that are true seekers (qisseesseena) and true followers of Christ's words have a high place in the Quran and are closest to those who have accepted the Quran and study it, follow it and believe in it.
God bless and Wa laikum Salam,
Anwar -
Peace,
This is a good example of following the Sunnah of our last prophet derived from the Quran. the qul is obviously to our last prophet. My advice would be to imitate the saying. So leave out the qul, say the rest and then where it says kabbirhu takbeeran, say Allahu Akbaru! with true feeling and as many times as you want, exalt him, as it says.
Godbless,
AnwarThank you and peace be upon you Anwar. handshake
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Dear i believe
here's some links if you haven't checked it yet.... (just to broaden your view on 19)
http//19.org/index.php?id=76,284,0,0,1,0
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/19.pdf
http//19.org/index.php?id=26,57,0,0,1,0.and a whole lot more articles on 19.org...
Peace handshake
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Right . . . . hmm That's why I said you were being an extreme . . . nope And I didn't know that I had used the term extremist (which is very different from what I said) confused
Please don't jump to conclusions. I just think you are digging a little too deep and hence, there is no need for me to do so. The quality of a mosque and what it is based on can be assessed by the quality of people that attend it. But it is your choice if you will not attend a mosque until you know where every cent involved in its founding came from. I just think this is a little extreme (again, not calling you an extremist). And I'm just giving you my honest assessment. What a way to miss the point and just take things too far. Figures. Peace. peaceGodbless,
AnwarSalaam Bro Anwar
If we do a bit of investigations about the funding in the mosque we would soon know how many mosques are backed by likes of Saudis and others, whose aim is to promote their own agenda. I do not see it as an unnecessary exercise, its like geting to the bottom of the party funding which is big issue in shaping the politics,(of the mosques). In your opinion its being extreme which makes me an extremist.
The quality of the people who attend is different from the quality of those who maintains the mosques as mentioned in the Qur'an.
Peace
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Salam,
Salaam Bro Anwar
If we do a bit of investigations about the funding in the mosque we would soon know how many mosques are backed by likes of Saudis and others, whose aim is to promote their own agenda. I do not see it as an unnecessary exercise, its like geting to the bottom of the party funding which is big issue in shaping the politics,(of the mosques). In your opinion its being extreme which makes me an extremist.
The quality of the people who attend is different from the quality of those who maintains the mosques as mentioned in the Qur'an.
I really hate when people put words into my mouth. I think you are being extreme about how you should deal with assesing the basis of a mosque. Being an extremist which is being extreme all the time would make you an extremist. But seeing how you constantly like to take things to an extreme, even in the previous conversations I have had with you I think that now I would assess you as an extremist. Again, I did not think that before I read this post, but through retrospection, in addition to your being extreme about this issue . . . Yes I do think you are an extremist, extremist, extremist. I hope that makes you happy now.
That is your business if you think that this is a necessary excercise. I can see how it can be important, but as I said before the most important way to find out what a mosque is based on is by assessing its parishioners and its leadership, not walking in there and asking how they get their funds. It is not some sweater store that buys from sweat shops. Sometimes how a mosque got started has nothing to do with how it is maintained. As for your quote on those who maintain the mosque, take it as you woud like. I always understood it as those who keep it clean and those who bring water to those who visit it (which in the end could be just those who pay the bills). I'll look into the real meanings of those words. Which probably won't matter to you. You are going to believe what you want to believe in the end. Right?
But just to solve something here as I'm sure you have not gleaned it yet. Yes, if a mosque is being upkept by extremists then there is a problem there. More important is if that mosque is attended by extremists and has extremist goals. However, as I said the best way to assess what a mosque is based on is its charter and the quality of its members and leadership. How it was built or remains standing is less important, because the quality of the people there will determine the quality of the funds coming in. Good people (leadership and members) support good things, and bad people (leadership and members) support bad things. It is really as simple as that.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Salam,
I really hate when people put words into my mouth. I think you are being extreme about how you should deal with assesing the basis of a mosque. Being an extremist which is being extreme all the time would make you an extremist. But seeing how you constantly like to take things to an extreme, even in the previous conversations I have had with you I think that now I would assess you as an extremist. Again, I did not think that before I read this post, but through retrospection, in addition to your being extreme about this issue . . . Yes I do think you are an extremist, extremist, extremist. I hope that makes you happy now.
That is your business if you think that this is a necessary excercise. I can see how it can be important, but as I said before the most important way to find out what a mosque is based on is ?As far as someone winning the loterry, I don't think that is evil. It is the distribution of money randomly that is evil not the recieving of it. Just like it is the charging of interest that makes it wrong (and that makes it interest). If you do not charge interest but someone gives you an extra percentage of their money as a gift, that is not interest? not walking in there and asking how they get their funds. It is not some sweater store that buys from sweat shops. Sometimes how a mosque got started has nothing to do with how it is maintained. As for your quote on those who maintain the mosque, take it as you woud like. I always understood it as those who keep it clean and those who bring water to those who visit it (which in the end could be just those who pay the bills). I'll look into the real meanings of those words. Which probably won't matter to you. You are going to believe what you want to believe in the end. Right?
But just to solve something here as I'm sure you have not gleaned it yet. Yes, if a mosque is being upkept by extremists then there is a problem there. More important is if that mosque is attended by extremists and has extremist goals. However, as I said the best way to assess what a mosque is based on is its charter and the quality of its members and leadership. How it was built or remains standing is less important, because the quality of the people there will determine the quality of the funds coming in. Good people (leadership and members) support good things, and bad people (leadership and members) support bad things. It is really as simple as that.
Godbless,
AnwarSalaam again,
Thank you for your assessment; your replies do make me wonder. I never asked you to follow my way I only asked about the Mosques, according to my understanding of the Qur'an.
You say ?However, as I said the best way to assess what a mosque is based on is its charter and the quality of its members and leadership, " In my less eloquent language I too was saying similar thing.
In an affluent area you would find often find rich ones with l big cars trying to get parking in the beautiful mosques whereas in not so well off area there is different crowd often loaded with the worries, The majority do not chooses mosques according to my "extreme" ways it all about going to most convenient mosque in the location
Best regards
farida -
the Quran urges us to remember God, to be mindful of Him, and to praise Him, to be grateful, things like that. there is a paragraph from a book on prayer when one goes to read Psalms, one might feel distracted, unprayerful, or uninspired. later, walking outside or watering a plant, a prayerful feeling might come upon him or her, unexpectedly.
And remember your Lord within yourself, in humility and in reverence; and without loudness in words, during the morning and the evening. And do not be of the careless ones. 7205
O you who believe, you shall remember God frequently.
And glorify Him morning and evening.
He is the One who sends down blessings on you, along with His angels, to lead you out of darkness into the light. And He is ever Merciful towards the believers. 3341-43i know one Quran-alone brother who makes salat (as in bowing and prostrating) in the morning and evening (just two times per day), and combines the bowing and prostrating with remembrance of God, reading Quran, and praise.
he argues, very well, that the Quran asks us to honor times for prayer, but does not say exactly when. we are asked to praise God in the morning and evening, to pray morning and evening, to bow, to prostrate, to remember Him.
...before the dawn prayer, and when you put off your attire from the noon time, and after the evening prayer... 2458
...and extol thy Sustainer's limitless glory and praise Him before the rising of the sun and before its setting; and extol His glory, too, during some of the hours of the night as well as during the hours of the day, so that thou might attain to happiness. 20130
above, we are asked to praise and remember God during the day hours, too, and at night. also, i am reading some of the hadith about timed prayer, and they all begin with "Allah's messenger used to...". does this mean everyone should pray the same way as Mohammed?
for every nation We have established rites which they are to fulfill. so do not let the matter fall into dispute. and call upon your Lord, for you are on a path which is straight. 2267
so surely the entire world needn't follow the specific examples of Mohammed. but from my reading and this brother's reading, we are asked to pray at the dawn and dusk, and to remember God throughout the day, and to bow and prostrate, and praise Him. i tend to combine these commandments in salat.
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also, there are these ayat
so give glory to Allah when you enter upon the evening hours, and when you rise at morn
yea, to Him be praise, in the heavens and on earth; and when the day begins to decline, and at noon. 3017-18we have evening, rising at morn, noon(ish), and as the day declines (sunset). that's four times mentioned. we are also asked to remember God hour to hour, think about Him, thank Him, praise Him.
and be steadfast in prayer; practice regular charity; and bow down with those who bow down (in worship). 243
so we are asked, in the same breath, to be steadfast in prayer, and bow down, and in other ayat bowing and prostrating are mentioned at the same time.
when ye finish prayers, celebrate Allah's praises, standing, sitting down, or lying down on your sides; but when ye are free from danger, set up regular prayers for such prayers are enjoined on believers at stated times. 4103
and the time stated are at dawn when we wake up, in the evening, as the day declines, and around noon. but more persistently the two approximate times of morning and evening are mentioned.
and they (humanity) are ordered naught else than to serve Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being faithful, and to establish worship and to give to charity. that is the true deen. 985
so all peoples are ordered to worship only God, to be devoted to Him in all things, to give generously to the needy, and to set up regular prayer times day to day.
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peace ayani, all,
Verses such as 20130 and 3017-18 are often cited in support of "salat" timings but I have not seen one argument that proves a connection without causing errors/contradictions in timings.
Also, to equate various concepts, such as dua / salat / tasbih and involve that in timings is unsound, unless a solid connection/equivalence can be proven first.
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peace ayani, all,
Verses such as 20130 and 3017-18 are often cited in support of "salat" timings but I have not seen one argument that proves a connection without causing errors/contradictions in timings.
Also, to equate various concepts, such as dua / salat / tasbih and involve that in timings is unsound, unless a solid connection/equivalence can be proven first.
well... i'm not saying that the only valid reading, just that this is how i read the references to salat and times of the day. i do find it a blessing to set aside time during the day at given points to remember God, to use my body in worship and remembrance, to offer du'a and praise, etc. besides, Muslims around the world do this... Sunnis, Shias, Ismailis, Alevis, Zikris, Sufis... we are supposed to worship God as one ummah, and not let disputes pull us apart, or "rejoice in what we have" as a "sect". 3032
also, i feel it's useful to have the fluency with other Muslims' worship patterns.
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peace ayani,
I am not disputing the practice of setting daily time aside to focus on God/Quran etc. I am disputing referencing of certain verses as evidence for such timings when doing so results in errors/contradictions, and equating of concepts when nothing has been shown demonstrating this is the case.
I too made these mistake when researching "salat", hence highlighting it here for others to consider.
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I forgot to give the alternative. When I studied some timing verses, the errors/contradictions were only resolved by taking them as idiomatic expressions to mean "all the time" / "throughout the day" etc. Just something to consider if investigating the timings of the non-salat specific verses.
