STILL DEBATING SALAT?!?
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I should have clarified what I meant. By title I meant name. Three salat were given names (ex fajr-salat etc etc). salat is a word, but there are classification for words. And according to the Koran, it is a verb (230, 4101). For example, I can say observe your kick. I can give a kick a specific name like observe you roundhouse kick.
Assumption or no assumption, this word salat is a verb and is given three specific names. Just like a dog can be given personal names (Lucky, Joe etc.) or human are given specific name (Mark, Jesus, etc) or a action (roundhouse kick, back slap etc)
So my question is this, is the names (what I meant by title) of the salat sufficient justification for the number salat of to perform?
No it's not because another term can be used in place of that. But in most "salat time" articles that I've read I've noticed that the author assumes an idea of salat and then searches for times in the quran.
I'd find it worth my time to read what you have to say if you use the quran only to figure out what "salat" means and give us good reasons (independent of the quran) to do it. -
And Dargento, I find Idolfree1's idea of salat very appealing. I think his idea makes sense, but again, I really haven't verified it thoroughly. I mean, what he said salat is works, but I'm not perfectly sure if that is actually what the quran is talking about.
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And Dargento, I find Idolfree1's idea of salat very appealing. I think his idea makes sense, but again, I really haven't verified it thoroughly.
That's just it; It's his idea, not your own. A lot of ideas can be very 'appealing' doesn't mean that a) they are true or b) in line with the whole quran
I am not saying his idea is wrong; I am saying it's not limited to his idea.
I'm also not saying one idea so salaat is right (be it physical, non-physical etc..), because it's not. I think salaat is like the placebo effect. 'Whatever works for you'. IMO, in the quran the purpose is much more important than the method itself, at least for salaat.
But in most "salat time" articles that I've read I've noticed that the author assumes an idea of salat and then searches for times in the quran.
You are right here, In order to be fair and balanced. We have to drop all preconceived notions about a topic/or a book in this case.
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That's just it; It's his idea, not your own. A lot of ideas can be very 'appealing' doesn't mean that a) they are true or b) in line with the whole quran
I am not saying his idea is wrong; I am saying it's not limited to his idea.
I'm also not saying one idea so salaat is right (be it physical, non-physical etc..), because it's not. I think salaat is like the placebo effect. 'Whatever works for you'. IMO, in the quran the purpose is much more important than the method itself, at least for salaat.
Yeah I think I agree with that. I've never thought the method was very important, as long as you serve the purpose. But, what is the purpose?
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2945 Recite what is inspired to you of the Scripture, and hold the Connection, for the Connection prohibits evil and vice; but certainly the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.
In this verse the remembrance of God supersedes Salaat. And the purpose is to avoid evil and vice. Things which lead us to bad things, which makes our lives worse... causing stress, depression etc...Remembering God helps us not do bad things.
Luqmaan
3117 "O my son, hold the Connection and advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and bear with patience whatever befalls you. These are the most honorable traits."
-Point(s) to consider The salaat is meaningless if one doesn't also observe good behavior.Which means Salaat for the sake of salaat is meaningless. It must have a purpose of some sort (to the individual).
2153 O you who believe, seek help through patience and through the Connection (salat), God is with the patient ones.
2441 Do you not see that everything in the heavens and the Earth glorifies God? Even the birds in formation, each knows its connection (salat) and its glorification. And God is fully aware of everything they do.
Now this is my favorite. The birds know their own salaat. What does this show? This shows that you don't need a book, or a messenger or anyone else or anything to show you what salaat is.
One of the methods of salaat I really like is meditation. It's excellent for stress, improves your immune system, has other health benefits etc... It really makes you feel peaceful.
For the record, physical salaat does exist in 4101-102 (demonstration)
This is the reason quran doesn't say 'do salaat this way!' because a lot of people are different. Some things work for some, other things work for others.
4913 O mankind, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.
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PEACE All
SHM i'm quiet surprised with the WAY you have said somethings as a SUBMITER.
You didn't seem to care too much about discussing and reaching a conclusion, part of the way you posted somethings appeared disrespectful and not so peacefull.
Please calm down and post in a more peacefull manner AND When posting do not forget kindness in your posts and do not forget the PRIMARY PURPOSE of discussing.
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I will try and show you where IMO you followed Satan and forgot Good character.
Page 1 of the thread you said "Can this thread be the begining of some real "progress" for the progressive muslins?"
Page 2 "Sad. You are laughing yet you don?t have a solid proof what salat is. If you did, everyone would have agreed with you and a consensus on solid evidence would have been reach years ago." what are you implying by that which i have highlighted in bold? (Wakas your reply to that which is quoted in page 2 of the should IMO have been better (in kindness + trying to be freindly) I hope you are not enemies of One another CAUSE YOU TALK TO EACH OTHER IN THAT WAY(IMO).
Page 5 "One tactic I sometimes see use is the referral to PM articles like its substantial and unbiased information (when it is indeed mostly bias and misleading information). For example, a new member may joint free-mind thinking it?s a nonpartisan forum. He post is view then a strong PM supported will say ?you are wrong this has already been answer blah blah blah posting a link to PM articles like it not a bias material. But at the end of these links are just opinions."
blah blah blah is disrespectful my friend
The action which you claim to be a tactic is IMO not a tactic ) You have chosen to view it as a tactic.
I disagree with members saying things such as "you are wrong this has already been discussed" IMO they should say something like "This has already been discussed (give link) here. If you want more info chek the link"There are other cases further on in the forum but i feel that what i have said is sufficient proof for what i have said in the first line of this post. I am hoping that you will either agree with me REASONABLY or disagree with me REASONABLY.
But i request of you to PLEASE be polite and friendly in your reply to me (If you reply) in order to make sure that i will not respond to you with sarcasm or in an UNFRIENDLY manner.
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nimnimak_11,
I have to agree with that SatanhHatesMe was rude with his argument, but it doesn't seem he/she is wrong. I just went through the all the posting in this salat section and no one really presented indisputable evidence everyone can rally behind. It seem no conclusion has yet to be reach on what Salat is. I have to agree with him or she when it comes to that argument.