POLYGAMY NOT THERE IN QURAN?
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sorry this issue is way personal to me... i mean what is more personal than having more than one wife?
or more to the point in reality today, having a girlfriend, or boy friend on the side...With our divorce rate what it is today, if there is any wisdom to be gleaned here from these verses we are quoting
we need to make them personal...On the one hand we have those who will bury women up to thier neck in the sand and throw rocks at them
for committing 'adultery', what ever that means to them and thier four witnesses...On the other we have broken homes, and too many orphan kids due to our treatment of those
who have 'girlfriends' and 'boyfriends' on the side of thier marriage...We need to get this right and find out how to deal with our sexual instincts that God gave us,
without intolerance, vengence, and murder...I think the point in the Quran is clear, one wife one husband is all we can handle emotionally.....
But I think that God has a much different view of 'adultery' than we do, since He created
the sexual instinct within us... -
sorry this issue is way personal to me... i mean what is more personal than having more than one wife?
or more to the point in reality today, having a girlfriend, or boy friend on the side...With our divorce rate what it is today, if there is any wisdom to be gleaned here from these verses we are quoting
we need to make them personal...On the one hand we have those who will bury women up to thier neck in the sand and throw rocks at them
for committing 'adultery', what ever that means to them and thier four witnesses...On the other we have broken homes, and too many orphan kids due to our treatment of those
who have 'girlfriends' and 'boyfriends' on the side of thier marriage...We need to get this right and find out how to deal with our sexual instincts that God gave us,
without intolerance, vengence, and murder...I think the point in the Quran is clear, one wife one husband is all we can handle emotionally.....
But I think that God has a much different view of 'adultery' than we do, since He created
the sexual instinct within us...Salaam
As a followers of Qur'an we should take an unbiased approach, but sadly many view issues in relation to their personal experiences, whereas Allah sees our problems in a wider context.
Earlier in this thread Brook gave a scenario of Muhammad the Hamas militant/terrorist and Golda and her husband (the victims.) I think it's time that l tell you the story of a real, traditional muslim family
A and B entered into an arranged marriage; both were virgins and fell deeply in love. They were the ideal example of a happily married couple, who both worked hard, but B decided to quit work once the children were born. They had two children a boy and a girl.
A worked in finance and earned good money; they both invested their money in property. Around seven years into their marriage C, another girl entered into A?s life. She worked in his bank and was highly paid like him and attractive too. A fell head over heal in love with C, who knew he was married.
Being a traditional Muslim woman she wanted to be a wife, not just a girl friend. She wanted commitment, but could not imagine herself as the second wife. A loved his children a lot and still cared for his wife, but now he was so much in love with this intelligent girl that he had to give in to her demand and so, one day he came and told his wife, who was obsessively in love with him that he had fallen in love with this colleague of his and that he wants to divorce her to get married to C.
I don?t need to tell you about the upheaval in their families; all efforts from both sides were made to stop this marriage from breaking up, but nothing worked. A was too much in love with C and so divorced his wife, but he wanted to maintain close contact with his children.
When C saw A?s divorce confirmed she agreed to marry him and the marriage took place with all the pomp and ceremony, as no one gave any indication that the groom had been previously married. This was an excruciatingly painful day for B.
A few months went by and A kept close contact with his children and kept in touch with his ex B, who never accepted the divorce, no matter how many times he uttered the word Talak (divorce). While A was visiting his children there was still love lingering between them and he slept with his ex wife who had stopped taking contraceptive pills and got pregnant.
On the other side of the fence C also got pregnant. When B heard that C was pregnant she got in touch with her and told her that she too was pregnant by A and showed proof of her pregnancy. Furious C, a highly paid intelligent woman went straight to a clinic, aborted the child and filed for divorce.
This revenge from B made A so angry and unhappy that he vowed never to see her again and now he really hated her.What about the children and the new one on its way???
Did any one have any regard for the children of the family who were suffering and the last one born, a girl would always wonder why she was used as a weapon against her father.
This is a sad real life story and it makes me wonder why these three people had to ruin each others lives, when they could have worked out a decent solution, if they really loved each other. '(
Now I would ask your opinion about above real life victims.
Best regards
farida -
when they could have worked out a decent solution, if they really loved each other.
And what's this "decent" solution, for an undecent situation, I wonder? To legalize this unlawful relationship between A and C?
What if it was B who met a "highly intelligent and attractive" colleague and fell in love with him? Anyway to work out a "decent" solution?If it was made crystal clear, to men and women alike, that married men are not available, such absurd situations calling for "unfair" solutions would not arise.
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And what's this "decent" solution, for an undecent situation, I wonder? To legalize this unlawful relationship between A and C?
What if it was B who met a "highly intelligent and attractive" colleague and fell in love with him? Anyway to work out a "decent" solution?If it was made crystal clear, to men and women alike, that married men are not available, these absurd situations, calling for "unfair" solutions would not arise.
The decent solution for A is to think of his children first
and
had he told C that he would only take her as second wife C wouldn?t have gone through this wedding
AND
It has been made crystal clear to men that they can not have relationship outside marriage with women.. No mistress or girlfriends just wife or wives. -
The decent solution was for A to think of his childern
the decent solution was for A to not think of his ...
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Salaams all,
It really amazes me how women (and some strange men) who supposedly follow the guidance contained in Al Quran, speak so negatively and harsh about polygyny and any man that would think of doing it! o
DO YOU KNOW THAT IT IS RECORDED FOR ALL TIME THAT THE MAN WHOSE LIPS BROUGHT YOU AL QURAN HAD MULTIPLE WIVES? hmm
So what, he was a pervert who couldn't control his sexuality? nope You consider that his only reason for being able to have more than one wife is that he as a messenger/prophet? wow
How will you ever explain this dilema to anyone that you care to invite to the truth of Al Quran? You can never deny that he had multiple wives; it is recorded in Al Quran for all times.
So when you say that men who take or even consider to take more than one wife are PERVERTS, etc., etc.,....to those on the outside, no matter how you justify it...THEY SEE THAT YOU ARE ALSO SAYING THIS ABOUT YOUR PROPHET WHO BROUGHT YOU AL QURAN!
That's just insane if you ask me. But human beings never cease to amaze me in hypocrisy.
peace group (The perfect icon for a man with his four wives! ;D )
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Salaams all,
It really amazes me how women (and some strange men) who supposedly follow the guidance contained in Al Quran, speak so negatively and harsh about polygyny and any man that would think of doing it! o
Salaam IMQ
Generilization against women again?
Best regards
farida -
DO YOU KNOW THAT IT IS RECORDED FOR ALL TIME THAT THE MAN WHOSE LIPS BROUGHT YOU AL QURAN HAD MULTIPLE WIVES?
His wives were our mothers. If you would be like him, your wife would already be a mother of the believers, thus the mother of your -to-be second wife = haraam.
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Salaams farida,
My apologies. I mean SOME women, just as I had some men.
As Salaamu Alaikum, angel
Salaam IMQ
Generilization against women again?
Best regards
farida -
His wives were our mothers. If you would be like him, your wife would already be a mother of the believers, thus the mother of your -to-be second wife = haraam.
This statement is as about ridiculous as it gets. Not surprising considering the source. nope
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I have to congratulate the initiator of this thread, because he obviously wanted to convince people that Qur'an doesn't condone poligamy (technically poligyny). He has some arguments for that, but they are nothing compared to the help he has received from brother IQO. Anybody who after reading him still supports poligamy deserves a monument to uninfluenciability.
As the Portuguese saying goes God writes straight with twisted lines.
Brother Brook, I congratulate you on the best helper you could dream of.
Salaam
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You sir, have some mental problems. hypno Mostly of the comprehesion kind. &
I have to congratulate the initiator of this thread, because he obviously wanted to convince people that Qur'an doesn't condone poligamy (technically poligyny). He has some arguments for that, but they are nothing compared to the help he has received from brother IQO. Anybody who after reading him still supports poligamy deserves a monument to uninfluenciability.
As the Portuguese saying goes God writes straight with twisted lines.
Brother Brook, I congratulate you on the best helper you could dream of.
Salaam
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Hmmmm quite the story about A, B and C.... the resulting thread of comments were equally as interesting...
Seems like the man is getting picked on here in this thread, I may remind those reading this past little lick, that it
is not only men that fall in love outside of the marriage.I also would like to remind those reading the thread to examine thier own reactions to the story, and
see if they would be the same if it was the woman who was the one falling in love outside the marriage...Then I want you to be extrordinary honest with yourselves and ask yourselves if any of you have had
feelings for someone else outside your primary relationship, and if the truth was known about how you
felt would you still be reacting the same way about the story above...My point is this, deep down every single one of us, male and female have sexual instincts that
are at odds with how we judge others who act upon them, yet we ourselves think about others
outside our primary relationships in ways that only God can Judge us properly..Therefore I suggest to you that all the verses in the Quran that describe the punishments
for adultery are ones that God Himself executes upon the guilty, and we have no right
whatsoever to exercise civil action against anyone that is acting upon thier own sexual
instincts...As far as the title of this thread goes, I believe that God is much more forgiving of
those who act upon thier sexual instincts than we are, and is about teaching us
how to live with ourselves and others who do so... -
His wives were our mothers. If you would be like him, your wife would already be a mother of the believers, thus the mother of your -to-be second wife = haraam.
rotfl rotfl bravo
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Hmmmm quite the story about A, B and C.... the resulting thread of comments were equally as interesting...
Seems like the man is getting picked on here in this thread, I may remind those reading this past little lick, that it
is not only men that fall in love outside of the marriage.I also would like to remind those reading the thread to examine thier own reactions to the story, and
see if they would be the same if it was the woman who was the one falling in love outside the marriage...Then I want you to be extrordinary honest with yourselves and ask yourselves if any of you have had
feelings for someone else outside your primary relationship, and if the truth was known about how you
felt would you still be reacting the same way about the story above...My point is this, deep down every single one of us, male and female have sexual instincts that
are at odds with how we judge others who act upon them, yet we ourselves think about others
outside our primary relationships in ways that only God can Judge us properly..Therefore I suggest to you that all the verses in the Quran that describe the punishments
for adultery are ones that God Himself executes upon the guilty, and we have no right
whatsoever to exercise civil action against anyone that is acting upon thier own sexual
instincts...As far as the title of this thread goes, I believe that God is much more forgiving of
those who act upon thier sexual instincts than we are, and is about teaching us
how to live with ourselves and others who do so...Salaam,
Samia too questioned earlier if it was B who had fallen in love with another man and I don?t see anything strange in that. Married Muslim women do fall in love with other men too, but the complicated Islamic laws gives responsibility of the children to the father, which in turn saves families from breaking down. Once parents give birth to their children they should not see themselves as individuals first, but as parents ready to makes sacrifices.
The story of A, B and C is true and only reluctantly did I share it, as it?s not nice to discuss other peoples misfortunes, but the fact remains, these incidents happen. In this case C could look after herself financially, but here the war was between two women; one who wanted to snatch away the other woman?s husband and separate the father from his children. The man was weak and did not think of how his actions would later affect his children. Asking him to sacrifice his love for C was too much to expect from this modern man.
However A being Muslim he was not required to abandon his first wife and family, to have another. He only needed to be firm with his second, ?intelligent and beautiful? love and tell her that he does not have to leave his children or his first wife, as he is allowed to take C as second wife. In this case I am 100% sure that C would have soon disappeared from his life, just the way she did later.
Life is strange just when you think you know all about life it surprises you. To me polygyny is more of a deterrent than a license to having multiple wives hmm 'till I learn more about life
Therefore I would say that man should be picked on, as he has been given greater responsibility to act ?like a man? and I agree with you that we are not to point finger at any one especially a woman, for whom there is the requirement of four witnesses.
Best regards
farida -
Salaam Farida
So you think that if A was firm and told C he did not have to have either B or C this would have deterred her and so the problem would have been resolved? What if it did not deterr her? I also know of a true story, same elements. A and B had a love marriage and two daughters, C came into the picture, an intelligent beautiful woman. (I think it was the "beautiful" factor that attracted the husband, since B was also an intelligent working woman). B did not want to break up the marriage, nor did C But who asked the daughters? It was them who boycotted their father without being disrespectful. They just turned cold and stopped sharing their life with him. He was almost crazy 'cause he did not do any calculations for that. He divorced his new love, but for the girls it was too late. B sided her daughters who lost their father to the second wife and did not accept him back. The man is living like a stranger in his own house. Either this or he leaves and starts anew. He became like the person God advises us not be like, "And be not like the one who undoes the threads which she has spun, after it has become strong, by taking your oaths as a means of deception among yourselves..." 1692.
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What influence did the mother have in the daughters mind to lose thier dad?
Absolutely zero influence. I think they were protesting for their own sake.
The story continues on. C met another married man. His wife called her on the phone to confirm to her that she welcomed her husband marriage to her. I had a firy discussion with C trying to stop her, and that the wife's acceptance does not guarantee the kids'. A and C got married. A's son (a university student) had a psychological break down, kept coming to his dad's office everyday, shouting and crying. One month later, the father divorced C. -
I seen and lived thru similar experiencs with children. One of the things I have learned is that they need to come first in any relationship. Cause if they are not happy, then the marriage will fail. On the other hand staying together for the sake of the children can be equally as damaging to the children, maybe more so, in cases of verbal and physical abuse.
I am a firm believer that we should not live our lives for our children either, it is unfair to ourselves and our children, they need to learn
the facts of life, and learn to be true to themselves.