POLYGAMY NOT THERE IN QURAN?
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I think the world is undergoing a complete crisis. And I mean crisis without any negative connotation. Everything must be brought in the open, everything must be considered anew, everything must be minutely and throughly examined to the bottom of it. Marriage, children, economy, everything.
Salaam Sis Huruf,
I have addressed you as sister, since many seem to think you are a brother; maybe because you are worried about the shortage of men. He he he or rotfl.Anyway, regarding your concern above that we are not gods and it is not our problem to come up with the solution for this century?s problem. Our job is to apply the rules of Allah, not invent new ones.
Allah(swt) kept this world in proportion for all this time and, this too will be taken care of insha?Allah. What amazes me is that, despite the great number of available singles quite a few women and men too are more attracted to the attached ones. Is it that the grass is greener on the other side or is this a case of the ?forbidden fruit? lure?
hmm
Best regards
farida -
Salaam Sis Huruf,
I have addressed you as sister, since many seem to think you are a brother; maybe because you are worried about the shortage of men. He he he or rotfl.Huruf is a sister? o o o Now I understand ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh so much better! rotfl rotfl rotfl Wow, why didn't you just tell me so that I could handle you differently? ignore I can be more understanding of somethings from sisters instead of brothers. hmm Do you believe that? nope
You and Samia are definitely two of a kind! yes
Peace, jedi handshake
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Huruf is a sister? o o o Now I understand ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh so much better! rotfl rotfl rotfl Wow, why didn't you just tell me so that ignore I can be more understanding of somethings from sisters instead of brothers. hmm Do you believe that? nope
You and Samia are definitely two of a kind! yes
Peace, jedi handshake
I beg your pardon IQO
MY post was not directed to you but a light hearted response to the onset of 2008, as in other threads people have been calling huruf brother ...do we have to be sarcastic all the time???And could you explain what do you mean by this?
I could handle you differently? -
I beg your pardon IQO
MY post was not directed to you but a light hearted response to the onset of 2008, as in other threads people have been calling huruf brother ...do we have to be sarcastic all the time???And could you explain what do you mean by this?
I didn't say that your post was directed to me, nor do I care. Anything written on a public forum is available for the public to comment on. I can be sarcastic, funny, serious, happy or whatever other emotion that I want to be at anytime on this forum. That's part of being free I guess and I would expect a "freeminder" to understand that. When your name becomes huruf, then I will explain to you what I said to her.
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The first time you say something nice about me! Are you alright?
We all have GOOD and BAD things about us! tempt Im not one who thinks like the "I am holier than thou" syndromers. nope I try to be an angel but of course I have my >D as well! yes
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Salaam Sis Huruf,
I have addressed you as sister, since many seem to think you are a brother; maybe because you are worried about the shortage of men. He he he or rotfl.Anyway, regarding your concern above that we are not gods and it is not our problem to come up with the solution for this century?s problem. Our job is to apply the rules of Allah, not invent new ones.
Allah(swt) kept this world in proportion for all this time and, this too will be taken care of insha?Allah. What amazes me is that, despite the great number of available singles quite a few women and men too are more attracted to the attached ones. Is it that the grass is greener on the other side or is this a case of the ?forbidden fruit? lure?
hmm
Best regards
faridaFarida, I don't know why you oppose what I say about understanding and examining to applying the quranic injunctions. In fact, as far as I know the Quran does tell us to examine the world, to reflect on what we see happening, on flows and events, on human nature and creation's nature. It is lack of reflection and objective observation of reality what has brought purported qur'an followers to scholars followers, or hadith followers. I don't know how do you propose to apply any rule to something if you do not even look and analyse deeply what that something is. The truthful qur'an is not a recipe book, it is a complete and deep guide infused of awareness of the human nature. God's sunna is something that should mean something to us. The history and historical evolution of our species should teach something, and history and events are on at every single moment, single year, single generation. The world will evolve into whatever, if you want to follow our fitra and God, we should reflect on what that whatever is, since there there are reflected Gods names as a Creator, and our Cretar creates us and what we are unceasingly. Don't we want to know how, what for, why, so that we worship Him and love Him more deply and heartfelt? He dictated the Qur'an and left, or is He still upholding His creation and shaping it Al Mussawir? Don't we want to wonder and admire His might, His wisdom, His innovation? His crativeness? I do. Isn't there in his plots more pull and teachings that in any great novel? I am surprised indeed by your answer, or rather by the conflict it seems to evoke to you. I think that gender roles, for instance, are time influenced, that societies and their customs and their knowledge and ignorance and their taboos change. Is that change aimless, purposeless, blind? There are things you cannot say today even if they are true and inofensive, because today we have our own taboo. Think for instance about what they call homosexuality. There is a very sure garantee that whatever you say about it will be used against you. Everything is like that, but still, inestead of going fearlessly and as prejudicedlessly as possible into the matter, we sort of tiptoe and cringe as if we were afraid of steping on some mouseand get the scare of our lives. And we believe that we can as believers further sciencess and knowledge? That way? How can we if we think that we cannot touch anything or peer into anything? Or do we think that God (astaghfirullah) is so sensitive that we might step on some toe of His? Are muslims supposed to have taboos, or taqwa?
Sorry, but I am a bit surprised by you answer to my post.
Salaam
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Farida, I don't know why you oppose what I say about understanding and examining to applying the quranic injunctions.
of His? Are muslims supposed to have taboos, or taqwa?Sorry, but I am a bit surprised by you answer to my post.
Salaam
Salaam Huruf,
Please do not think that I oppose your suggestion it?s just that, to me there are many other pending problems that I would rather deal with. What must address today rather than what may be laying ahead and I hope to continue to ponder on this.
BTW you ignored what I said about the excess of available men What amazes me is that, despite the great number of available singles, quite a few women and men too are more attracted to the attached ones. Is it that the grass is greener on the other side or is this a case of the ?forbidden fruit? lureBest regards
farida -
The question is que the pending problems may become more numerous and more serious if we refuse to diagnose and try to mould them to our own preconceptions. Things will not go back the way they were. We may get wilder and more brute and savages, but things are not going to go back to the older partterns, if we refuse to think hard and try to find new ways to establish useful and fair patterns, what awaits us is most probably unbridled savagery. There may be some similitude between that and previous ages, but we will not go back to a dreamed established mould which may be even never existed except in our conception before we knew the world better.
Diagnosing and accepting may take some time but blind trial will never arrange things.
In fact I would like you to state clearly exactly what you are calling for in this thread Whether it is some solution so that men do not divorce or that women do not pretend married men... I am confused about what you are looking for exactly.
For mi children should come first and their parents according to capacity should look after them with the burden distributed in equity. I don't know when you ask for injunctions from the Qur'an where you want to apply them. Because wht is evident is that you cannot apply something where the premises for application do not exist. Adn muy must also bear in mind that the purpose of any system is justice, not injustice, because of blindly following a recipe, be it the proper one or not.
So please, explain.
Salaam
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Salaams huruf,
Where are you from by the way? Considering that English is most probably not your first language (not to mention that you are a woman too angel ), I find it hard to even understand what you are trying to say sometimes! wow
The question is que the pending problems may become more numerous and more serious if we refuse to diagnose and try to mould them to our own preconceptions. Things will not go back the way they were. We may get wilder and more brute and savages, but things are not going to go back to the older partterns, if we refuse to think hard and try to find new ways to establish useful and fair patterns, what awaits us is most probably unbridled savagery. There may be some similitude between that and previous ages, but we will not go back to a dreamed established mould which may be even never existed except in our conception before we knew the world better.
Diagnosing and accepting may take some time but blind trial will never arrange things.
In fact I would like you to state clearly exactly what you are calling for in this thread Whether it is some solution so that men do not divorce or that women do not pretend married men... I am confused about what you are looking for exactly.
For mi children should come first and their parents according to capacity should look after them with the burden distributed in equity. I don't know when you ask for injunctions from the Qur'an where you want to apply them. Because wht is evident is that you cannot apply something where the premises for application do not exist. Adn muy must also bear in mind that the purpose of any system is justice, not injustice, because of blindly following a recipe, be it the proper one or not.
So please, explain.
Salaam
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I beg your pardon IQO
MY post was not directed to you but a light hearted response to the onset of 2008, as in other threads people have been calling huruf brother ...do we have to be sarcastic all the time???And could you explain what do you mean by this?
Farida-
See that 'Ignore' button.. it works sooooo well.....
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Point taken Daud peace
Quote from Daud-19 on Today at 031750 PM
Farida-See that 'Ignore' button.. it works sooooo well.....
And I will be perfectly happy to ignore the both of you two as well since I haven't seen any Quranic discussion of benefit from either of you on any posts as of yet! nope wow
All that the two of you do is jump in with your opinions and feelings with no Quranic evidence either way. Maybe you both should consider just reading and studying until you have some Quranic based points of value to offer. hmm
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Why would you submit to such a arrogant point of view?
Your ideas come from God, we can help show you where in the Quran
they can be validated...That guy is into POWER ignore him...
d-
Salaam Daud
What makes you think that I submitted to anyone except Allah(swt); his suggestion was reasonable and I would never say I have enough knowledge and until I die I will continue to study and learn.Arrogant are those who just want to have the last say; they reject those with good knowledge as well as those who seek knowledge, They do not want to admit their faults and Allah does not love arrogance.
Relex No one overpower me.
Best regards
farida -
Before I write Part Two of my post to sum up the points I have made in this forum, I need to reconsider Samia?s arguments, which she basis on grammar. She says
The verse starts with "yataamaa", which is a mixed-gender or masculine plural. (He ?yaseen- acknowledges that). Why not use the proper word for female orphans "yateemaat"?
In my opinion that is because the masculine nouns and pronouns stand for the feminine too, as in An-Nisaa 6 And test the orphans until they reach a marriageable age -Wa?btalu?l yataama hattaa iza balagu?n nikah.
God wants you to test both the male and female orphans in your charge, doesn?t He. And right afterwards He warns you then if you find them to be mature of mind, give them their possessions ?fa in ?nastum minhum rushdan fa?dfa3uu ilayhim amwaal ahum.
And what about the male orphans? Marry them off?
In my opinion they are implicitly included in God's command to marry the yataama like the ibaad ikum in 2432. What is more, they are only a side issue here. God?s command still stands no matter whether the male orphans are included or not you have to obey God by
-testing the yataama to see if they are mature enough
-handing over amwaal ahum to them
-marrying off the mature female orphans; that is, the nisaa in 43 like the imaa in 2432.I just wanted to make sure that I understand Samia?s argument correctly. If I am still mistaken I would like her to please tell me.
Peace,
Hasan Ak?ay -
Before I write Part Two of my post to sum up the points I have made in this forum, I need to reconsider Samia?s arguments, which she basis on grammar. She says
The verse starts with "yataamaa", which is a mixed-gender or masculine plural. (He ?yaseen- acknowledges that). Why not use the proper word for female orphans "yateemaat"?
In my opinion that is because the masculine nouns and pronouns stand for the feminine too, as in An-Nisaa 6 And test the orphans until they reach a marriageable age -Wa?btalu?l yataama hattaa iza balagu?n nikah.
I agree with you the word 'yataamaa" is plural of both 'yateemun " and "yateematun".
Evidence( 770ـ
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I agree with you the word 'yataamaa" is plural of both 'yateemun " and "yateematun".
Evidence( 770ـ
( )Thank you for the answer. Bu I still have questions.
According to Samia, when the imperative NKH is preceded by fa like the fankihu in 43, it only means marry. But according to yaseen, the initial fainkihu in 43 could mean either marry or marry off, in which case THE CONTEXT WILL DETERMINE THE INTENDED MEANING.
I said I would rather give the benefit of the doubt to yaseen's explanation because it saves the verse from a lot of contradictions which the other one causes.
For example
(1)In 46 God orders you to hand over the possessions of the orphans as soon as they reach their physical and mental maturity. You have to obey God if you are a sincere Muslim. However, you disobey Him by marrying the mothers of the orpans, which ends in the orphans still staying in your family with their possessions.
Which is obligatory; obeying God about who there is no doubt or obeying grammar about which there is doubt?
(2)Let?s assume that you are a sincere Muslim; so you obey God and give the orphans their possessions as soon as they are mature enough, which proves that now they are economically independent of their mothers and of you.
What has your polygamy got to do with the orphans who are economically independent of you? What is it to them? What is it to Islam?
(3)In 42 God warns you that if you eat the possessions of the orphans, you will commit the huuban kabbeera. So, as a sincere Muslim, you are afraid to commit it.
In 43 God goes on talking about your fear if you fear to be unjust to the orphans in your care?
However, you choose to marry the mothers of the orphan babies and keep their possessions in your care. Willingly or unwillingly you may still eat their possessions and commit the huuban kabeera.
Why should you marry the mothers of the orphan babies although it does not do away with your fear that you will probably eat the possessions of the orphans and commit the big crime?
Peace,
Hasan Akcay