I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you!!

Imaani1

I just needed to share my thoughts on the following as its been going around and around in my head for a few days now.

A muslim male work firnd of mine is going through a divorce. On the whole he is a great guy. We always have great discussions about the Quran as his interest in my being a convert/revert (or whatever he sees me as) causes some great debates.

He was born in the UK and in his own words is not very religious (whatever that means to him). However after making this satement (about his lack of being strict in Islam) whilst discussing looking for a future wife who he insists he does not want wearing hijab he then went one to answer my question of "when does your decree nisi get granted" with...........it doesnt matter ive spoken to my ex wife over the phone and declared I divorce you three times!!!!! >(

So heres my confusion.......he says he is not religious but then spouts some rubbish about three times divorce over the phone (which is part of religious divorce in HIS understanding) crazy......

so after laughing for a good five mins and him asking me what I thought was so funny I printed of some great info from the divorce article in Free Minds and gave them to him asking him to read up .

The next day he came in and said that his friend said the web sites I am looking at are devient and not real Islam........All I could say was look forget me/your friend/websites just look in your Quran........his answer was.....yeah iI might do that!!! I give up brickwall

Does any one know where the stating of I divorce x3 comes from?

later on that week he told me his friend also told him to stay away from reverts/converts as they are forever saying this is this and that is that in Islam......my reply.....maybe its because we read the book ;D

rant over peace

Mushu

Salaam Imani,

It comes from hadith shock horror attributed to Caliph Umar. According to hadith, after the expansion of territory during Umar's reign, very new and exotic types of women were integrating with the muslims.

The new women were not accustomed to sharing a husband, so they would demand that the men divorce their first wives before they would agree to marry. In their eagerness to marry these new women, men were not applying the correct divorce procedures given in the quran. They would divorce the women once, and refuse to go through the arbitration. This was apparently happening on a mass scale so a rule was introduced, allowing a man to pronounce divorce 3 times in one go, alleviating him from having to try and save the marriage, which he had no intention of doing in the first place.

It would be very simple for modern day scholars to denounce such a practise as unislamic by citing quranic evidence, but due to self-inflicted limits, they cannot go against a ruling attributed to Umar.

Imaani1

Hi Mushu,

Thank you for that information its really helpful handshake.

It amazes me that people really believe that God would allow a human to just disregard marraige with another on a whim by saying I divorce you three times........craziness......

I just hope that wome faced with this will have the guts to throw open the book and ask hubby to show them where they get that idea from ;D

captainneckbeard

I
later on that week he told me his friend also told him to stay away from reverts/converts as they are forever saying this is this and that is that in Islam......my reply.....maybe its because we read the book ;D

rant over peace

Muslims telling other Muslims to stay away from reverts/converts? That's terrible!

Wakas

It likely stems from a twisting of The Quran, because it says after the third declaration of divorce one cannot take them back unless divorced wife marries another then this new marriage ends, and only then can the original couple remarry.

So, in order to get it over and done with quickly and imply there is no possibility of reconciliation, and no waiting period, they made-up the "say it 3 times" rule.

From http//www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part3

To understand the sequence of events, we must fully understand the divorce procedure according to The Quran

'cooling-off' period for those who swear away from their wives sexually, limited to 4 months *
after this 4 month 'cooling-off' period, the options are revert to normal relations or divorce/talaq
post-divorce interim/waiting period is 3 menstruation periods or 3 months, if pregnant it is until they deliver, if widowed it is 4 months and 10 days
if no sex has taken place after marriage, then no interim period is required after divorce/talaq . Compensation may be due however if dower was agreed upon
during post-divorce interim period, wife remains in the same house, and is compensated by way of maintenance during this period in the same living standard as the husband, each according to their means **
divorce is automatically retracted if sex between the couple takes place during the interim period ***
if couple reconciles, then divorce/talaq may be retracted twice during interim-period. If divorced a third time it is final unless she marries another then they divorce, only then can original partners re-marry. If the couple fear they will not maintain God's bounds, then wife may give some dowry back to release herself
if couple still wishes to follow through with the divorce/talaq after the end of the interim period and undergo final separation, then two witnesses are required to complete the process
exceptions exist, in certain situations
the onus is upon the person in the wrong to rectify the situation or initiate divorce/release, and it is an obligation upon the contract-breaking party to compensate the other
As a side note, the last point is also mentioned in traditional Islamic law and sources, see M.Asad's note on 2229. This system would also protect the male if he were to marry a female who only did so for his money or the marital gift then she wished to end the marriage later, because since the contract-breaking party compensates the other partner, she would have to do so accordingly. Similarly, this would protect the female if she were to marry a male who only did so for lustful reasons then wished to end the marriage later, as he would then have to compensate her.

*Also possibly provides a time limit due to a practice of the time in which husbands did not have sex with their wives but also did not divorce them, see 581-4, 334; i.e. leaving them in a state between marriage and divorce. Similar to what is implied by 4129.

**And the same goes for the lesser situation of 'cooling-off' period. Obviously, the wife would not be removed from the home for the lesser serious 'cooling-off' period then brought back just for the post-divorce interim period.

***Inference from 2226 is that resumption of sexual relations is equated to reconciliation, thus no initiation of divorce. Hence, same proviso for post-divorce interim period, i.e. sex = reconciliation.

Interestingly, divorce is taken very seriously in The Quran and discussed in significant detail, perhaps even discussed in most detail of any procedure in The Quran, and significant emphasis is put on reconciliation, waiting times etc, but yet the "say it 3 times" rule goes completely against that.

You honestly couldn't make it up.

mmkhan

Salaam Imaani1,

2226
2226 For those who abstain from their wives, they shall wait four months. If they cease, then Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

The person who is planning to divorce his wife has to wait four months.

2227
2227 And if they insist on the divorce, then Allah is Hearer, Knowledgeable.

And if he planned/confirmed/decided to give the divorce then Allah is Hearer, knowledgeable.

2228
2228 And those divorced shall wait for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile. And the obligations owed to them are to be fulfilled, as are the obligations owed by them. But the men will have a greater responsibility over them in this. And Allah is Noble, Wise.

Now divorced women has to wait for three menstruation periods then she can go for another marriage.

2229
2229 The divorce is allowed twice. So, either they remain together equitably, or they part ways with goodness. And it is not lawful for you to take back anything you have given them unless you fear that they will not uphold the boundaries of Allah. So if you fear that they will not uphold the boundaries of Allah, then there is no sin upon them for what is given back. These are the boundaries of Allah so do not transgress them. And whoever shall transgress the boundaries of Allah, then these are the wicked.

The most important part here is "AlTalaaqu Marrataan" that means "The divorce is allowed twice". When it is not mentioned that "The divorce is allowed twice TO ONE WOMEN/WIFE" it simply means that "The divorce is allowed twice in your lifetime".

2230
2230 So if he divorces her, then she will not be lawful for him until after she has married a different husband; if he divorces her; then there is no sin that they come back together if they think they will uphold the boundaries of Allah. These are the boundaries of Allah, He clarifies them for a people who know.

After divorce then she is not be lawful for him until she marry a different husband and when he divorce her then they can remarry.

This is how I understand the process of divorce is. May Allah forgive me if I am wrong and guide me to the truth.

May Allah increase us all in true knowledge pr
Mohammed M. Khan

Layth

Salaam Imaani,

The 3 times divorce law is an abuse of 2229 which allows a man and woman to remarry after a divorce upto a maximum of 2 times.

Dear MKhan,

The waiting period during a divorce - if intercource has taken place - is 3 mensturations (or 3 months if the woman does not mensturate, and until delivery if the woman is pregnant) during which the man and woman should remain together in the same home (651).

The 4 months you are referring to in 2226 is the period a man, who is not sexually approaching his wife, is given to rectify or divorce.

Regards,

mmkhan

Salaaman Layth

Dear MKhan,

The waiting period during a divorce - if intercource has taken place - is 3 mensturations (or 3 months if the woman does not mensturate, and until delivery if the woman is pregnant) during which the man and woman should remain together in the same home (651).

The 4 months you are referring to in 2226 is the period a man, who is not sexually approaching his wife, is given to rectify or divorce.

Regards,

651 is only for AlNabi and not for us, Allah knows how and whom to address.

Secondly, I believe during the "Waiting Period " there is NO intercourse.

"Talaaq" means "to leave" or "part with" or "separate"
"Atlaqa" means "set free" or "set at liberty", etc...

So, if a person had an intercourse that means he fall under of 2226

Answer to your question has given by yourself "The 4 months you are referring to in 2226 is the period a man, who is not sexually approaching his wife, is given to rectify or divorce."

"Waiting Period " is after the completion of divorce, so, there is NO intercourse again.

At that time women falls under 2228 and for men is 2230

May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan

Layth

Salam Mohammed (you do not need to use the 'shadda' as it is a factor of the sentence, not the word - see 1423),

651 is not for the Prophet. Though the verse begins by addressing him, it then goes on to incude everyone else (idha Talaqtum) - if you (all) have divorced. Had it been a verse specefic to the addressee it wuld have been (idha Talaqta).

I used to have the same understanding as you, and to reconcile the various verses, I was led to believe the divorce is actually 4 months + the (idda) of 3 months = 7 months total.

Upon further examination and reasoning, I found that 2226 is dealing not with divorce but with a different matter altogether - the case of a man who is refraining from his wife - and that the Quran gives him 4 months time limit to amend his ways (hence the word "fa3oo" - "to give in" - 499) - thus the ending of the verse "God is gorgiving, merciful" - since this is a deviant behaviour. But ih he will not amend his ways, then divorce becomes the reality 2227.

mmkhan

Salaaman Layth

Salam Mohammed (you do not need to use the 'shadda' as it is a factor of the sentence, not the word - see 1423),

BTW, 1423 also says the same i.e., "Salaamun".

651 is not for the Prophet. Though the verse begins by addressing him, it then goes on to incude everyone else (idha Talaqtum) - if you (all) have divorced. Had it been a verse specefic to the addressee it wuld have been (idha Talaqta).

Oh yes, thank you for clarification brother. I agree.

I used to have the same understanding as you, and to reconcile the various verses, I was led to believe the divorce is actually 4 months + the (idda) of 3 months = 7 months total.

I believe that the complete process/time of divorce starts from 2226.

And as you said 4 months + 3 months for iddat = 7 months, there is

4 months is for men before the completion of divorce
3 months is for women after the completion of divorce

For remarriage of divorced couple

There is no waiting period for men after divorce
There is 3 menstruation periods waiting time for women after divorce

Upon further examination and reasoning, I found that 2226 is dealing not with divorce but with a different matter altogether - the case of a man who is refraining from his wife - and that the Quran gives him 4 months time limit to amend his ways (hence the word "fa3oo" - "to give in" - 499) - thus the ending of the verse "God is gorgiving, merciful" - since this is a deviant behaviour. But ih he will not amend his ways, then divorce becomes the reality 2227.

Can you please explain the highlighted/red part above? I think you are getting confuse brother, cause you clarified it in the blue part above same as I think, then how it a different matter altogether.

Why a man refrain from his wife?

I understand that either he is willing to divorce his wife or he is simply angry on his wife, but in both the cases if he never amend his way then the divorce becomes the reality.

May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan

loxbox13

Salam Mohammed (you do not need to use the 'shadda' as it is a factor of the sentence, not the word - see 1423),

651 is not for the Prophet. Though the verse begins by addressing him, it then goes on to incude everyone else (idha Talaqtum) - if you (all) have divorced. Had it been a verse specefic to the addressee it wuld have been (idha Talaqta).

I used to have the same understanding as you, and to reconcile the various verses, I was led to believe the divorce is actually 4 months + the (idda) of 3 months = 7 months total.

Upon further examination and reasoning, I found that 2226 is dealing not with divorce but with a different matter altogether - the case of a man who is refraining from his wife - and that the Quran gives him 4 months time limit to amend his ways (hence the word "fa3oo" - "to give in" - 499) - thus the ending of the verse "God is gorgiving, merciful" - since this is a deviant behaviour. But ih he will not amend his ways, then divorce becomes the reality 2227.

I believe there is a mistake in the translation of for the word twice.

The divorce is allowed twice. So, either they remain together equitably, or they part ways with goodness. And it is not lawful for you to take back anything you have given them unless you fear that they will not uphold the boundaries of God. So if you fear that they will not uphold the boundaries of God, then there is no sin upon them for what is given back. These are the boundaries of God so do not transgress them. And whoever shall transgress the boundaries of God, then these are the wicked. 2229

This tranlation of Maratan doesn't mean twice , Maratan = and and it mean ( a choice of the two ) or something similar and not twice. but it's a definition of the 2 rules , 1 . they remain together equitably or 2 . they part ways with goodness.

the word twice is Maratayn and not Marattan , like this verse

To these We grant twice the reward for that they have been patient. And they counter evil with good, and from Our provisions to them, they give. 2854