Quran inheritance mistake

unknownuser

Now if a man dies leaving three daughters, one mother, one father and one wife, the shares are as follows. Three daughters should get 2/3 of the inheritance in accordance with, ?If they are only females and more than two, then they will have two
thirds of what is inherited?. Since the man has children, both the mother and father get 1/6 in accordance with, ? and to his parents each one of them one sixth of what is inherited if he has children.? And according to 412, the wife should get 1/8 of the inheritance in accordance with, ? if you have a child then to them is one eighth of
what you leave behind.? If we add these shares up, we get 1.125 instead of 1 2/3 + 1/6+1/6+1/8=1.125

Quran is saying that three daughters should get 2/3 of the inheritance, etc. In other words, Quran has fixed the shares from the whole inheritance.

Conclusion All attempts to find a solution fail. Contradiction remains.

Please either show that my reasoning is wrong or the translation of verses is wrong or propose another solution with a Quranic ground.
Thank you

One of these baby algebra and supposed contradictions pops every other month. lol

In verse 411 2/3 or ? only apply in cases when there are no sons (i.e. if # of females = > 2 they get 2/3; if one she gets 1/2).

Equation is set equal to 1 in ALL CASES for it can never be greater than the whole.

Let x = unit of distribution ordained by God in this particular case, thus equation becomes?

1/8x + 1/6x + 1/6x + 2/3x = 1
3/24x + 4/24x + 4/24x + 16/24x = 1
27/24x = 1
x = 24/27

Daughters get 2/3 * 24/27 = 16/27 divided equally amongst the 3 of them
Wife gets 1/8 * 24/27 = 3/27
Father gets 1/6 * 24/27 = 4/27
Mother gets 1/6 * 24/27 = 4/27

Math check 16/27 + 3/27 + 4/27 + 4/27 = 27/27 = 1 (i.e. the whole)

Another similar example A woman dies leaving husband, mother, father, and daughter.

411 says ? husband gets ?, mother 1/6, father 1/6, and only daughter gets ? thus the na?ve would again see a contradiction adding greater than 1.

? + 1/6 + 1/6 + ? = 13/12 > 1

Proper way is to let variable x = unit of distribution ordained by God for this case...

1/4x + 1/6x + 1/6x + 1/2x = 1
13/12x = 1
x = 12/13

Daughter gets 1/2 * 12/13 = 6/13
Husband gets 1/4 * 12/13 = 3/13
Father gets 1/6 * 12/13 = 2/13
Mother gets 1/6 * 12/13 = 2/13

Math check 6/13 + 3/13 + 2/13 + 2/13 = 1 (i.e. the whole)

?Solution? 1 Edip Yuksel had it correct and it's literally "so for them (F) two thirds what he left,"

peace

Samia

Salaam Nun

Where did you get this from?

In verse 411 2/3 or ? only apply in cases when there are no sons

The whole verse (411) speaks of "children" males and females In case there is one , two or more females AMONG the children. No verse is set if there were only males or females, because that is too obvious divide equally.

To Onur

If they are just females, the 2/3 does not apply. They get all the remainder. Verse 411 speaks of the case when only children are left. You will have a problem applying it if you have two females and a male AND anymore heir, because these three will consume the whole inheritence.

The correct calculation is to give the parents and the wife their shares, then the three girls will have the remainder divided by them in equal shares.

unknownuser

Salaam Nun

Where did you get this from?The whole verse (411) speaks of "children" males and females In case there is one , two or more females AMONG the children. No verse is set if there were only males or females, because that is too obvious divide equally.

Salaam Samia, here we go again... ;D

Never mind that part, it's late and I haven't slept all night.

Onur

Dear Nun de plume,

As you know, I already anticipated your solution. You say `it is literally 2/3 the inheritance'
Well, is 16/27 the inheritance equal to 2/3 the inheritance? Or did you just correct Quran's mistake with algebra setting the whole equation to 1 and ignoring the denominator?

If the Quran had used the following language then your solution would be satisfactory
" For every 2/3 share of three daughters, parents each get 1/6 and wife gets 1/8 " Or if the Quran had said," The shares for distribution are 2/3 for three daughters , 1/6 each parent and 1/8 for the wife" your solution would be OK too.
But Quran is saying 2/3 what he leaves(that is the total inheritance), 1/6 from what he leaves(the total inheritance), etc
In other words, Quran has fixed the shares from the total inheritance. Whereas, you just compare the shares with each other. An interesting and pragmatic solution but unfortunately it does not save the Quran.
Unless you can show me that 2/3 the inheritance is not equal to 2/3 of the inheritance.

unknownuser

Dearest Onur,

But Quran is saying 2/3 what he leaves(that is the total inheritance), 1/6 from what he leaves(the total inheritance), etc

No, (that is the total inheritance) are your words and assumptions.

Qur?an says 2/3 WHAT HE LEFT not 2/3 OF THE TOTAL INHERITANCE.

YOU say girls get 2/3 OF inheritance; in English OF means times; thus?
Girls get 2/3 * inheritance

Qur?an says girls get 2/3 WHAT he left which means in proportion to the whole as compared to all the other inheritors; this unit which we?ll call x ordained by God for this particular case needs to be first calculated, thus?

1/4x + 1/6x + 1/6x + 1/2x = 1 (i.e. the whole)
x = 24/27

411 ..."so for them (F) two thirds what he left,"

2/3 * 24/27 = 16/27 divided equally amongst the 3 of them

Another example to clarify Only 3 daughters
YOU say girls get 2/3 OF the total inheritance meaning
Girls get 2/3 * inheritance = 2/3
Remaining 1/3 goes to unknown?

Qur?an says girls get 2/3 WHAT he left in proportion to the whole as compared to all the others; this unit which we?ll call x again is calculated thus?

2/3x (girls share) + 0 (others) = 1
x = 3/2

"so for them (F) two thirds what he left,"
2/3 * 3/2 = 1 (i.e. the whole) divided equally amongst the 3 of them

Equation is set equal to 1 in ALL CASES and works perfectly for ALL CASES!

Do you really believe God would reveal something so easily trounced with countless examples or the absurd logic of 1+1+1 = 1 or God needs to pray to God?

Happy New Year!

Peace

Onur

Dear Nun de Plume,

I am hoping that you are right. But, I have question marks. Quran is literally saying "2/3 what he leaves." Now, you turn that statement into " 2/3 what he leaves in proportion to the whole as compared to all the others."
What is your justification for this? This is my first question to you.As an answer to your question, if there are just three daughters to inherit, according to Quran they would get 2/3 and the remaining 1/3 would go to the poor and needy in accordance with the verse 48
Furthermore, Quran does not necessarily want the whole inheritance to be distributed. If you look at 4176, in the case where there is only brother to inherit he gets full inheritance. If there is only one sister to inherit, Quran consciously leaves 1/2 undistributed, as a remainder.

My second question to you is the following. If there are 3 sons, 1 daughter, 1 mother, 1 father and 1 wife
the distribution would be perfect because first the shares of mother, father and wife would be given and the rest would be distributed among the sons and daughters in such a way that the each son gets twice as the daughter.
If you do this distribution, you will see that in distributing the money among the mother, father and wife you
cannot apply your algebraic method. If you had done that, you would distribute the whole inheritance(because you set the whole equation equal to 1) and nothing would be left for the children. The point is that you cannot apply your algebraic method in all cases.

But, my first question is the most important Given that Quran does not necessarily want the whole inheritance to be distributed, How do you justify making 2/3 the inheritance equal to 2/3 the inheritance in a comparison with other shares? In fact, to remind you again, my problem is not about the remainders but about the excess-when fractions add up to more than one.

Onur

unknownuser

When I went through it I found it all added up perfectly but always left a small surplus. No use of any algebraic unknowns, just pure addition of proportions.

Wakas

admin fee?

unknownuser

Greetings Onur,

I am hoping that you are right. But, I have question marks. Quran is literally saying "2/3 what he leaves." Now, you turn that statement into " 2/3 what he leaves in proportion to the whole as compared to all the others."
What is your justification for this? This is my first question to you.

WHAT (?) is asking something to be defined in any language, right?

?2/3 WHAT he leaves? is not same as definite ?2/3 OF THE inheritance.?

As an answer to your question, if there are just three daughters to inherit, according to Quran they would get 2/3 and the remaining 1/3 would go to the poor and needy in accordance with the verse 48

The daughters get the whole and 48 says nothing about remaining ? it?s only a reminder to be charitable...

48 And if of the relations, and the orphans, and the poorest of poor/poor oppressed attended the apportionment/division, so provide for them from it, and say to them a saying (that is) kind/good.

Furthermore, Quran does not necessarily want the whole inheritance to be distributed. If you look at 4176, in the case where there is only brother to inherit he gets full inheritance. If there is only one sister to inherit, Quran consciously leaves 1/2 undistributed, as a remainder.

The one sister gets the whole thing?

4176 They ask your opinion/clarification , say "God decrees/decides in the man or woman without a son/father , if (a) man/human died, not for him (without) a child, and for him (is) a sister, so for her half (of) what he left, and he inherits her if (there) was not for her a child, and if they (B) were two (F), so to them (B/F) the two thirds from what he left, and if they were brothers (siblings) men and women, so to the male equal/alike (the) share (of) the two females, God clarifies for you that (E) you (not) be misguided, and God is with every thing knowledgeable.

x = WHAT (variable to be defined) in proportion to the whole compared to all the others.

? x (sister?s share) + 0 (others) = 1
x = 2

?so for her half (of) what he left?

? * 2 = 1 (i.e. she gets the whole inheritance)

unknownuser

My second question to you is the following. If there are 3 sons, 1 daughter, 1 mother, 1 father and 1 wife
the distribution would be perfect because first the shares of mother, father and wife would be given and the rest would be distributed among the sons and daughters in such a way that the each son gets twice as the daughter.
If you do this distribution, you will see that in distributing the money among the mother, father and wife you
cannot apply your algebraic method. If you had done that, you would distribute the whole inheritance(because you set the whole equation equal to 1) and nothing would be left for the children. The point is that you cannot apply your algebraic method in all cases.

It works perfectly for all cases?

3 Sons; 1 Daughter; 1 Wife; 1 Father; 1 Mother;

411 God directs/commands/recommends you in your children, to the male equal fortune the two females, so if they are/were women more/over two, so for them (F) two thirds what he left, and if she was one, so for her the half and to his parents, to each one from them (B) the sixth from what he left, if for him was a child (son), so if (there) was not for him a child (son), and his parents inherited him, so to his mother the third, so if brothers were for him, so to his mother the sixth, from after a bequest/will he bequeaths with it or a debt; your (P) fathers and your (P) sons, you (P) do not know, which of them (is) closer to you (P) (in) benefit/usefulness, a religious duty/command from God, that God was/is knowledgeable, wise/judicious.

412 And for you (P) half what your (P) spouses/wives left, if (there) was/is not for them (F) a child, so if (there) was/is for them a child, so for you (P) the quarter from what they (F) left from after a bequest/will they (F) bequeath/direct with it or a debt, and for them (F) the quarter from what you (P) left, if (there) was not for you (P) a child, so if (there) was for you (P) a child, so for them (F) the eighth from what you (P) left from after a bequest/will you (P) bequeath/direct with it or a debt, and if (he) was/is a man to be inherited without a child or father or a woman (wife), and for him (is) a brother, or a sister, so for each one from them (B) the sixth, so if they were more than that, so they are partners in the third, from after a bequest/will is bequeathed/directed with it or a debt not harming, (a) direction/command from God, and God (is) knowledgeable clement.

Thus 1 (i.e. the whole) ? (2 * 1/6 (parent) + 1/8 (wife)) = children?s share
13/24 = children?s share

Sons get 13/84 each or ?to the male equal fortune the two females?

Daughter gets 13/168

OR use general equation?

? x (daughter) + 3 * (2 * ? x (son)) + 2 * 1/6 (parent share) + 1/8 (wife share) = 1

7/2x + 1/3 + 1/8 = 1
7/2x = 13/24
x = 2/7 * 13/24
x = 26/168

Daughter = ? * 26/168 = 13/168

Therefore, distribution is

Sons get 13/84 each
Daughter gets 13/168
Wife gets 1/8
Father gets 1/6
Mother gets 1/6

Of course, each person is reminded to be generous and kind to the poor.

It is never the case of a remainder or excess nor do fractions ever add up > than one.

Peace

unknownuser

Salaams Onur, All,

please tel me if i am in the wrong,

I think the admin fee is available in the inheritance- i think.

No wife situation; the share increases to the children if there are more of them.

Shares to one child, and or a number of children,
Shares to parents in case of children and no children,
Shares to brothers and sisters in case of no children.

411
Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance) to the male, a portion equal to that of two females if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases ('s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Al-wise.

Now when there is a wife as well; the 2/3 share to 3 or more children cannot be applied-read the ayah below;

Your share in case of child and no child,
The wife?s share in case of a child and no child,
412

In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. If the man or woman whose inheritance is in question, has left neither ascendants nor descendants, but has left a brother or a sister, each one of the two gets a sixth; but if more than two, they share in a third; after payment of legacies and debts; so that no loss is caused (to any one). Thus is it ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Most Forbearing.

But no worries if i am in the wrong.

God Bless..

Onur

Dear Nun de Plume,

This is verse 4176

They seek a ruling from you, say "God gives you the ruling for those who have no descendants. If a person passes away and has no children but has a sister, then she shall receive half of what he leaves behind. And he will inherit from her fully if she has no child.
if a man/human died, not for him (without) a child, and for him (is) a sister, so for her half (of) what he left, and he inherits her fully if (there) was not for her a child

In this part, Quran is talking about 1) what the sister gets if there is no other inheritor 2) what the brother gets if there is no other inheritor.
For 1) Quran says she(sister) gets 1/2 For 2) Quran says he(brother) gets full inheritance.

Remember that Quran presents this case as a case in which there is no other inheritor. So you do not have to put in your formulate any category relating to other inheritors. It is already given that there is no other inheritor.
Now, Quran is obvioulsy making a distinction between 1 and 2, between what the sister gets and what the brother gets. But, in your solution there is no distinction. Both gets full.
Now, if there was no distinction necessary, why would the Quran make any distinction? Then, what is Quran's point of saying 1/2 for the sister? It could say 1/3, 1/6, 1/7, 1/8 and in your method she would still get full(1) no matter what.
So according to your theory it is completely vain for Quran to fix 1/2 for the sister in this case in which Quran says that there is no other inheritor.
I think this completely refutes your theory.

In answer to your question, if you say "2/3 the inheritance" to any person he will understand "2/3 of the inheritance" and not your " 2/3 the inheritance before comparing with the share of others." Let us make a survey if you want.

And in your solution for the case with 3 sons, 1 daughter, 1 mother, 1 father and 1 wife you apply your algebraic method only after first doing regular distribution for the shares of mother, father and wife. Since this not a big difficulty, however, I will not push this point further. You only need to convince me about the other points I raise in this post. Thanks
Onur

unknownuser

Greetings Onur,

This is verse 4176

In this part, Quran is talking about 1) what the sister gets if there is no other inheritor 2) what the brother gets if there is no other inheritor.
For 1) Quran says she(sister) gets 1/2 For 2) Quran says he(brother) gets full inheritance.

Remember that Quran presents this case as a case in which there is no other inheritor. So you do not have to put in your formulate any category relating to other inheritors. It is already given that there is no other inheritor.

Does verse say no other inheritor and exclude mother and/or spouses?
Does verse say brother gets full inheritance and excludes mother and/or spouses or does it only name him as a participant?

4176 They ask your opinion/clarification , say "God decrees/decides in the man or woman without a son/father, if (a) man/human died, not for him (without) a child, and for him (is) a sister, so for her half (of) what he left, and he inherits her if (there) was not for her a child, and if they (B) were two (F), so to them (B/F) the two thirds from what he left, and if they were brothers (siblings) men and women, so to the male equal/alike (the) share (of) the two females, God clarifies for you that (E) you (not) be misguided, and God is with every thing knowledgeable.

Now, Quran is obvioulsy making a distinction between 1 and 2, between what the sister gets and what the brother gets. But, in your solution there is no distinction. Both gets full.

They both only get full amounts without a mother and/or spouses present.

I believe if it not worded exactly Qur?an verse 4176 would contradict verse 411-12?

Thank you for your questions, this was a good exercise and reminds me always best to draw up a will. lol

I really need to prepare for travel and new job. Hope to have time to continue this.

4176 ??God clarifies for you that you (not) be misguided, and God is with every thing knowledgeable.

Peace

unknownuser

Greetings Onur,

And in your solution for the case with 3 sons, 1 daughter, 1 mother, 1 father and 1 wife you apply your algebraic method only after first doing regular distribution for the shares of mother, father and wife. Since this not a big difficulty, however, I will not push this point further. You only need to convince me about the other points I raise in this post. Thanks
Onur

Wanted to address this question for future reference.

Pay close attention to literal wording especially where "from" appears which denotes substraction.

To Children
411 God directs you in your children, to the male equal fortune the two females,
so if they are/were women more/over two, so for them (F) 2/3 what he left, and if she was one, so for her the ?

To Parents
411 and to his parents, to each one from them (B) the 1/6 from what he left, if for him was a child (son),
so if (there) was not for him a child (son), and his parents inherited him, so to his mother the 1/3,
so if brothers were for him, so to his mother the 1/6, from after a bequest/will he bequeaths with it or a debt; your (P) fathers and your (P) sons,

To Husband
412 And for you (P) 1/2 what your (P) spouses/wives left, if (there) was/is not for them (F) a child,

so if (there) was/is for them a child, so for you (P) the ? from what they (F) left from after a bequest/will they (F) bequeath/direct with it or a debt,

To Wives
412 and for them (F) the ? from what you (P) left, if (there) was not for you (P) a child,
so if (there) was for you (P) a child, so for them (F) the 1/8 from what you (P) left from after a bequest/will you (P) bequeath/direct with it or a debt,

To Brothers and Sisters (mother and/or wife may not be excluded)
412 and if (he) was/is a man to be inherited without a child or father or a woman (wife), and for him (is) a brother, or a sister, so for each one from them (B) the 1/6,
so if they were more than that, so they are partners in the 1/3, from after a bequest/will is bequeathed/directed with it or a debt not harming, (a) direction/command from God, and God (is) knowledgeable clement.

4176 say "God decrees/decides in the man or woman without a son/father, if (a) man/human died, not for him (without) a child, and for him (is) a sister, so for her 1/2 what he left,
and he inherits her if (there) was not for her a child,
and if they (B) were two (F), so to them (B/F) the 2/3 from what he left,
and if they were brothers (siblings) men and women, so to the male equal share the two females,

Example 3 Sons; 1 Daughter; 1 Wife; 1 Father; 1 Mother;

To Parents
411 and to his parents, to each one from them (B) the 1/6 from what he left, if for him was a child (son),
To Wife
412 so if (there) was for you (P) a child, so for them (F) the 1/8 from what you (P) left from after a bequest/will you (P) bequeath/direct with it or a debt,

1 (the whole) ? 2 * 1/6 (parent share) ? 1/8 (wife share) = children?s share

To Children (at least one son, 2 for 1 apply and it's straight forward)
411 God directs you in your children, to the male equal fortune the 2 females,

1 (the whole) ? (2 * 1/6 (parent) + 1/8 (wife)) = 3 * 2x (son share) + x (daughter share)

1 ? 1/3 ? 1/8 = 7x
24/24 ? 8/24 ? 3/24 = 7x
13/24 = 7x
13/24 * 1/7 = x (daughter share)

13/168 = Daughter
13/84 = Son each
1/8 = Wife
1/6 = Mother
1/6 = Father

Example 3 Daughters, Mother, Father, Wife

To Parents
411 and to his parents, to each one from them (B) the 1/6 from what he left, if for him was a child (son),

To Wife
412 so if (there) was for you (P) a child, so for them (F) the 1/8 from what you (P) left from after a bequest/will you (P) bequeath/direct with it or a debt,

To Children (2/3 applies since only daughters else if a son then 2 for 1)
411 God directs you in your children, to the male equal fortune the two females,
so if they are/were women more/over two, so for them (F) 2/3 what he left, and if she was one, so for her the ?

what = x (variable)
notice no from!

1 (the whole) ? 1/8x (wife share) ? 1/6x (father share) ? 1/6x (mother share) = 2/3x (3 daughters share)
1 = 2/3x + 1/8x + 1/3x
1 = x + 1/8x
1 = 8/8 + 1/8x = 9/8x
8/9 = x

Daughters get 2/3 * 8/9 = 16/27 divided equally amongst the 3 of them
Wife gets 1/8 * 8/9 = 3/27 or 1/9
Father gets 1/6 * 8/9 = 4/27
Mother gets 1/6 * 8/9 = 4/27

Peace

Onur

Dear Nun de Plume,

This is a quite interesting observation. So, if I am understanding you correctly, your general formula is to do subtraction-regular distribution when the word "from" occurs and to do your algebraic method for the cases in which the word "from" does not occur. I have to think through this and to see if it applies to all cases consistently. Just a quick question. If there is only 1 wife as inheritor, the verse 412 says 1/4 from what you left In that case, I believe you would still give her the whole inheritance and it would not make any difference if it was 1/4 what you left Is that so? And, how would you solve a case with one wife( 1/4 from what you left) and one mother( 1/3 according to 411 and the word from does not occur) Would you apply your algebraic method comparing 1/4 and 1/3 or would you do something else? You might be on to something with this general formula but I need sometime to think about it and test it.

And on a seperate issue I believe there is a problem with the translations of the verse 4176 because it assigns different shares to sisters and brothers than 412 in the same cases. For example, 412 gives both the sister and the brother 1/6 whereas 4176 gives the sister 1/2 and the brother 1/1. According to most translations both 412 and 4176 seem to give those shares to brothers and sisters in the same case- in cases in which there are no other inheritors(parents, children and spouses). There is probably something wrong with those translations and the difficulty in translation might be stemming from the word 'kalalah' in 412 and 4176.

But we can stick for now with your interesting observation about the word from and applications of your general formula to some cases. Thanks

Onur

Onur

Dear Nun de Plume,

You seem to be using two different equations for 1) mother, father, wife, 3 sons and 1 daughter and 2) mother, father, wife, 3 daughters even though in both cases the word 'from' occurs for the shares of mother, father and wife

For the 1) 1 (the whole) ? (2 * 1/6 (parent) + 1/8 (wife)) = 3 * 2x (son share) + x (daughter share)

For the 2) 1 (the whole) ? 1/8x (wife share) ? 1/6x (father share) ? 1/6x (mother share) = 2/3x (3 daughters share)

In the 1st equation you are not putting x for the parents and wife in order to avoid an equation with two unknowns(because the shares of sons and daughters are only compared with each other as the son gets twice as the daughter). I think the first case and equation are totally consistent with the text of Quran. In the second equation, however, you decide to put x for everything basing this on the observation that the word 'from' does not occur for the shares of three daughters .

My questions to you 1) for the second equation what difference would it make if the verse said '2/3 from what he left' instead of '2/3 what he left' for the shares of three daughters 2) for the first equation what difference would it make if the verse said '1/8 what you left' for the wife and '1/6 what he left' for the parents instead of '1/8 from what you left' and '1/6 from what he left'.

Thanks
Onur

Zulf

This is a risky question.. don't wanna question God...

but why would sisters get half of brothers? Doesn't make any sense these days... or does it?

unknownuser

Greetings Onur,

Just a quick question. If there is only 1 wife as inheritor, the verse 412 says 1/4 from what you left In that case, I believe you would still give her the whole inheritance and it would not make any difference if it was 1/4 what you left Is that so?

Inheritance laws are to arbitrate division of property; therefore a single inheritor always gets the whole since no division of property is necessary. This is common sense.

? from what is fixed;
? what is variable.

And, how would you solve a case with one wife( 1/4 from what you left) and one mother( 1/3 according to 411 and the word from does not occur) Would you apply your algebraic method comparing 1/4 and 1/3 or would you do something else?

Case 1 Wife; 1 Mother;

To Parents
411 so if (there) was not for him a child (son), and his parents inherited him, so to his mother the 1/3,

Not applicable; no child and only one parent. (1/3 is special case only if parents are heirs)
1 (the whole) ? 1/3 (mother?s share) = father?s share = 2/3

412 and for them (F) the ? from what you (P) left, if (there) was not for you (P) a child,

1(the whole) ? ? (wife share) = mother?s share = ?

And on a seperate issue I believe there is a problem with the translations of the verse 4176 because it assigns different shares to sisters and brothers than 412 in the same cases. For example, 412 gives both the sister and the brother 1/6 whereas 4176 gives the sister 1/2 and the brother 1/1.

The sister/brother get whole if either is a sole inheritor; common sense.

4176 "...and he inherits her if (there) was not for her a child? ? only names brother as participant.

412 the 1/6 is fixed and only applies if both brother and sister to man without a child or father or wife (mother not excluded).

4176 the 1/2 what is variable and only applies if sister to man or woman without a son/father (mother and/or spouse not excluded).

Case 1 Mother 1 Sister;

To Parents
411 and to his parents, to each one from them (B) the 1/6 from what he left, if for him was a child (son),
so if (there) was not for him a child (son), and his parents inherited him, so to his mother the 1/3,

Not applicable ? no child and only one parent. (1/3 is special case only if parents are heirs)
Thus 1 ? 1/3 (mother?s share) = father?s share = 2/3

412 ?and for him (is) a brother, or a sister, so for each one from them (B) the 1/6, so if they were more than that, so they are partners in the 1/3?

Not applicable ? there is only a sister.

4176 say "God decrees/decides in the man or woman without a son/father, if (a) man/human died, not for him (without) a child, and for him (is) a sister, so for her 1/2 what he left,

x = WHAT (variable) he left in proportion to the whole compared to all the others.

1 ? x (mother?s share unknown) = ? x (sister?s share ? * unknown)
1 = 1/2x + x = 3/2x
x = 2/3

?so for her 1/2 what he left,?

Sister = ? * 2/3 = 1/3
Mother = 2/3

In above case Qur'an disagrees with most scholars/Islamic schools of thought which assign excess to Islamic Treasury.

Which tells us who was in charge of the Islamic Treasury and influenced the scholars.

Islamic Treasury (IRS.gov lol) only gets inheritance when their are NO inheritors. In spirit it should go to the poor.

Case 1 Mother 1 Brother;

To Parents
411 and to his parents, to each one from them (B) the 1/6 from what he left, if for him was a child (son),
so if (there) was not for him a child (son), and his parents inherited him, so to his mother the 1/3,

Not applicable ? no child and only one parent.

412 ?and for him (is) a brother, or a sister, so for each one from them (B) the 1/6, so if they were more than that, so they are partners in the 1/3?

Not applicable ? there is only a brother.

4176 ?and if they were brothers men and women, so to the male equal/alike share the two females, God clarifies for you that (E) you (not) be misguided, and God is with everything knowledgeable.

This case the mother is treated same as a sister..."so to the male equal/alike share the two females"

1 = mother?s share + 2 * mother?s share (brother?s share)
1 = 3 * mother?s share
1/3 = mother?s share
2/3 = brother?s share

According to most translations both 412 and 4176 seem to give those shares to brothers and sisters in the same case- in cases in which there are no other inheritors(parents, children and spouses). There is probably something wrong with those translations and the difficulty in translation might be stemming from the word 'kalalah' in 412 and 4176.

Inheritance calculations involve math (language international) thus literal translation should always be used.

Peace

unknownuser

You seem to be using two different equations for 1) mother, father, wife, 3 sons and 1 daughter and 2) mother, father, wife, 3 daughters even though in both cases the word 'from' occurs for the shares of mother, father and wife

For the 1) 1 (the whole) ? (2 * 1/6 (parent) + 1/8 (wife)) = 3 * 2x (son share) + x (daughter share)

For the 2) 1 (the whole) ? 1/8x (wife share) ? 1/6x (father share) ? 1/6x (mother share) = 2/3x (3 daughters share)

1 (the whole) ? (2 * 1/6 (parent) + 1/8 (wife)) = 3 * 2x (son share) + x (daughter share)

Above all amounts are fixed including amount to the children at 21 ratio and thus

x = daugther share
2x = son share

Perhaps you can see it if written as such?

1 (the whole) ? (2 * 1/6 (parent) + 1/8 (wife)) = 3 * (2*daughters share (son share)) + daughter share

1 (the whole) ? (2 * 1/6 (parent) + 1/8 (wife)) = 7 * daugther share

basically give parents and wife their fixed share and remainder fixed share to children at 21 ratio.

Above ratio is in relation to brothers whereas below amounts are variable to WHAT he/she left her in proportion/ratio to all...

x = WHAT

1 (the whole) ? 1/8x (wife share) ? 1/6x (father share) ? 1/6x (mother share) = 2/3x (3 daughters share)

Try working a few more examples to clarify.

Peace

Onur

Dear Nun de Plume,

Let me see if I understand you correctly. So, in the case with 3 sons, 1 daughter, mother, father and wife you take the shares of mother, father and wife as fixed. But in the case with 3 daughters, mother, father and wife, you take the shares of mother, father and wife as variable. And the reason you take the shares of mother, father and wife variable in the latter case is that the word "from" is absent when the verse talks about the shares of 3 daughters( 2/3 what he left) Therefore, since the word 'from' is absent in the share of 3 daughters you make all other shares(mother, father, wife etc) variable- that is, varying in comparison to the share of 3 daughters.
Did I get you correctly? I just want to make sure I understand your reasoning correctly.

Onur