Financial responsibility of the children.
-
Salaams siki,
The points that you present say that one has power over another and can take advantage of that person if they so choose. There is nothing un-Quranic about that, that is the way life is and why we have so much suffering. Others in the position to do so, take advantage of others.
The point is that a BELIEVING man of faith is warned against EXACTLY what you are saying in Al Quran. So surely he who doesn't truly fear Allah will possibly do what you are saying, and he who takes his guidance from Al Quran and implements it will not. The ayat of Al Quran tell the human beings not to do exactly what you are saying, hence Al Quran is recognizing that the opportunity to do so exists, and hence very logical.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
IQO
Salam,
Men have the right to divorce, and have a right to keep the children, so they can any time divorce a wife , and deprive the woman of her loved ones. Knowing, how strong is the motherhood bond, this seems very illogical and cruel to me, this understanding can lead to black mail, and abuse in a matrimonial relationship.
siki
-
Farida,
You obviously have nothing Quranic to add to the discussion or make a point with. I will take the liberty to ignore all of your posting from here on out, unless one day you decide to study Al Quran and make some valid points from it instead of your opinions and emotions.
Have a nice life!
Salaam Siki
You are talking about logic to such a person who believes this
And what would this follower of Al Quran do when he divorces his next wife and throws her out; its very likely that the next wife in line will take care of the children?
As for his responsibility towards children he should just get one "woman" after another to look after "his" children and that is how he is keeping the trust entrusted to him by Allah(swt)What a shining example of a Muslim Man!
Best regards
farida -
IQO
salam
I dared to post my own logic only due to reason that i am still not sure as to what al quran says about this issue, i have not carried out the studies, and even you confess that your conclusions are incomplete and hence open to changes/modifications.
So let's keep our minds open and search the book for the answers.
What we follow here in Pakistan is very logical, Mother deserves the custody till kids are 7 and 14 (boys and girls respectively) and the Father provides for them in propotion to his income. If mother remarries, the custody is reverted to father immediately. When the kids reach the above mentioned age the custody is reverted to father unless they both settle otherwise.
young children need mothering , whereas when they grow up they need protection of their fathers.
siki
-
Salaams siki,
I understand what Pakistan or other sunni run areas of the world have as their policy regarding divorce and children from their Islamic perspective, but can any of it be proven or backed up from Al Quran? If so, all I am asking for are ayaat that point to these conclusions as you have given them.
If we use a rational or emotional based answer based on our own experiences, everyone will come up with different reasons for this or that which all can be considered valid depending on the circumstance of each couple and individuals. That would be fine if Allah gave no guidance on the issue in Al Quran, thus indicating that He was leaving those items up to us. But in instances where Allah speaks about the issue in Al Quran, then our obligation is to try to understand the guidance given first, and then to implement it.
So in this thread, me personally, I am only interested in viewpoints based directly from ayaat and their understanding that support a particular idea about how we should handle the financial responsibilities and custody issues regarding children and women during divorce. If you or any one else can provide evidence from your understanding of Al Quran, then I will be happy to discuss that and try to gain a more in depth understanding, Allah willing.
As Salaamu Alaikum, angel
IQO
salam
I dared to post my own logic only due to reason that i am still not sure as to what al quran says about this issue, i have not carried out the studies, and even you confess that your conclusions are incomplete and hence open to changes/modifications.
So let's keep our minds open and search the book for the answers.
What we follow here in Pakistan is very logical, Mother deserves the custody till kids are 7 and 14 (boys and girls respectively) and the Father provides for them in propotion to his income. If mother remarries, the custody is reverted to father immediately. When the kids reach the above mentioned age the custody is reverted to father unless they both settle otherwise.
young children need mothering , whereas when they grow up they need protection of their fathers.
siki
-
Salaam Farida, all
To my understanding, the quraan does not decide which gender is richer than the other, but from verse 434, I take the first part as a general statement, inforcing my understanding of "nisaa'" to mean those vulnerable and thus poor in this context, including children. So, whichever of the parents is richer, should provide for the children until they stand on their feet and become independent. In case the parents are poor or dead, the children become part of (the vulnerable kids and the orphans ى, and that's why we do not find a verse explicitly explaing the financial responsibility regarding children. Details should be based for every case on this principle and set by the community.
-
Salaam Farida, all
Salaams,
To my understanding, the quraan does not decide which gender is richer than the other, but from verse 434, I take the first part as a general statement, inforcing my understanding of "nisaa'" to mean those vulnerable and thus poor in this context, including children.
Al Quran doesn't decide which gender is richer than the other, but Allah does give the responsibility to the men to maintain and provide for the women.
And please, how many times are you gonna have to be shown again that taking rijaal and nisaa as anything other than men and women in 434 is just wrong and ridiculous? You can't enforce part of a meaning of a word as the primary or only meaning of the word for an ayat of Al Quran without it making sense...but wait...this isn't your first time to do that is it? hmm
So, whichever of the parents is richer, should provide for the children until they stand on their feet and become independent. In case the parents are poor or dead, the children become part of (the vulnerable kids and the orphans ى, and that's why we do not find a verse explicitly explaing the financial responsibility regarding children. Details should be based for every case on this principle and set by the community.
Does it say in Al Quran that the richer parent has responsibility for the kids? or the husband?
So now kids with poor parents become part of "yataamaa" also?
You don't see anything in these ayaat below that include the mentioning of financial responsibility regarding children?
2228
Transliteration Waalmutallaqatu yatarabbasna bi-anfusihinna thalathata quroo-in wala yahillu lahunna an yaktumna ma khalaqa Allahu fee arhamihinna in kunna yu/minna biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiri wabuAAoolatuhunna ahaqqu biraddihinna fee thalika in aradoo islahan walahunna mithlu allathee AAalayhinna bialmaAAroofi walilrrijali AAalayhinna darajatun waAllahu AAazeezun hakeemun
Literal And the divorced (F) wait with themselves (F) three menstrual cycles , and (it is) not permitted/allowed to them (F) that they (F) hide/conceal what God created in their (F) wombs/uteruses , if they (F) were believing with God, and the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and their husbands/spouses (are) more worthy/deserving with returning them, in that if they wanted/intended a reconciliation . And for them (F) similar/equal what (is) on them (F) with the kindness/generosity , and to the men a step/stage/grade on them (F), and God (is) glorious/mighty , wise/judicious.
Free-Minds And the divorced women shall wait for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile. And for what obligations the women are owed, so similarly must they fulfil their obligations. But the men will have a greater responsibility over them in this. And God is Noble, Wise.
Rashad Khalifa The divorced women shall wait three menstruations (before marrying another man). It is not lawful for them to conceal what GOD creates in their wombs, if they believe in GOD and the Last Day. (In case of pregnancy,) the husband's wishes shall supersede the wife's wishes, if he wants to remarry her. The women have rights, as well as obligations, equitably. Thus, the man's wishes prevail (in case of pregnancy). GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
Yusuf Ali Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.2233
Transliteration Waalwalidatu yurdiAAna awladahunna hawlayni kamilayni liman arada an yutimma alrradaAAata waAAala almawloodi lahu rizquhunna wakiswatuhunna bialmaAAroofi la tukallafu nafsun illa wusAAaha la tudarra walidatun biwaladiha wala mawloodun lahu biwaladihi waAAala alwarithi mithlu thalika fa-in arada fisalan AAan taradin minhuma watashawurin fala junaha AAalayhima wa-in aradtum an tastardiAAoo awladakum fala junaha AAalaykum itha sallamtum ma ataytum bialmaAAroofi waittaqoo Allaha waiAAlamoo anna Allaha bima taAAmaloona baseerun
Literal And the mothers breast feed their children two years complete, to who wanted/intended that (to) complete the lactation/breast feeding period, and on the born to him/father, (is the responsibility of) their provision (F) and their dressing/clothing (F) with the kindness/generosity , (that) no self be burdened/imposed upon except its endurance/capacity , no mother (is) to be harmed with her child, and nor a born to him/father (be harmed) with his child. And on the heir/inharitant similar/equal (to) that, so if they (B) wanted separation (weaning) on acceptance/approval from them (B), and discussion/consultation , so no offense/guilt/sin on them (B), and if you willed/wanted that to seek a wet nurse/breast feeder (for) your children, so no offense/guilt/sin on you if you handed/delivered over what you gave with the kindness/generosity , and fear and obey God, and know that God (is) with what you make/do seeing/knowing/understanding.
Free-Minds And the divorced mothers are allowed to suckle their children two full years, if they wish to complete the suckling. And the man for whom the child is born is responsible for both their provisions and clothing equitably. We do not burden a soul beyond its means. No mother shall be harmed because of her child, nor shall a father be harmed because of his child. And for the guardian is the same requirement. So if they wish to separate out of mutual agreement and council, then there is no sin upon them. And if you want to hire nursing mothers, then there is no sin upon you if you return what you have been given equitably. And be aware of God, and know that God is watching over what you do.
Rashad Khalifa Divorced mothers shall nurse their infants two full years, if the father so wishes. The father shall provide the mother's food and clothing equitably. No one shall be burdened beyond his ability. No mother shall be harmed on account of her infant, nor shall the father be harmed because of his infant. (If the father dies), his inheritor shall assume these responsibilities. If the infant's parents mutually agree to part, after due consultation, they commit no error by doing so. You commit no error by hiring nursing mothers, so long as you pay them equitably. You shall observe GOD, and know that GOD is Seer of everything you do.
Yusuf Ali The mothers shall give such to their offspring for two whole years, if the father desires to complete the term. But he shall bear the cost of their food and clothing on equitable terms. No soul shall have a burden laid on it greater than it can bear. No mother shall be Treated unfairly on account of her child. Nor father on account of his child, an heir shall be chargeable in the same way. If they both decide on weaning, by mutual consent, and after due consultation, there is no blame on them. If ye decide on a foster-mother for your offspring, there is no blame on you, provided ye pay (the mother) what ye offered, on equitable terms. But fear Allah and know that Allah sees well what ye do.651
Transliteration Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu itha tallaqtumu alnnisaa fatalliqoohunna liAAiddatihinna waahsoo alAAiddata waittaqoo Allaha rabbakum la tukhrijoohunna min buyootihinna wala yakhrujna illa an ya/teena bifahishatin mubayyinatin watilka hudoodu Allahi waman yataAAadda hudooda Allahi faqad thalama nafsahu la tadree laAAalla Allaha yuhdithu baAAda thalika amran
Literal You, you the prophet, if you divorced the women, so divorce them (F) to their term (F), and count/calculate the menstrual cycle/term and fear and obey God, your Lord, do not bring them out from their (F) houses/homes, and they (F) do not get out except that they do/commit with an evident enormous/atrocious deed , and those are God's limits/boundaries/orders, and who transgresses/violates God's limits/boundaries/orders, so he had caused injustice/oppression (to) his self, you do not know, maybe/perhaps God initiates/causes after that a matter/affair (event) .
Free-Minds O you prophet, if any of you have divorced the women, then they should be divorced while ensuring that their required interim is fulfilled, and keep count of the interim. You shall reverence God your Lord, and do not evict the women from their homes, nor should they leave, unless they have committed a proven adultery. And these are God's limits. And anyone who transgresses God's limits has wronged his soul. You never know; perhaps God will make something come out of this.
Rashad Khalifa O you prophet, when you people divorce the women, you shall ensure that a divorce interim is fulfilled. You shall measure such an interim precisely. You shall reverence GOD your Lord. Do not evict them from their homes, nor shall you make life miserable for them, to force them to leave on their own, unless they commit a proven adultery. These are GOD's laws. Anyone who transgresses GOD's laws commits an injustice against himself. You never know; maybe GOD wills something good to come out of this.
Yusuf Ali O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods And fear Allah your Lord and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul thou knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new situation.652
Transliteration Fa-itha balaghna ajalahunna faamsikoohunna bimaAAroofin aw fariqoohunna bimaAAroofin waashhidoo thaway AAadlin minkum waaqeemoo alshshahadata lillahi thalikum yooAAathu bihi man kana yu/minu biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiri waman yattaqi Allaha yajAAal lahu makhrajan
Literal So if they (F) reached (completed) their term/time, so hold/grasp them (F) with kindness/generosity or separate from them (F) with kindness/generosity , and call a witness (two owners) (B) of justice/equality from you, and keep up/take care of the testimony/certification to God, that is being preached/advised/warned with it who was believing with (in) God, and the Day the Last/Resurrection Day; and who fears and obeys God, He makes/puts for him a way out/exit.
Free-Minds Then, once the interim is fulfilled, either you remain together equitably, or part ways equitably and have it witnessed by two just people from among you; and give the testimony for God. This is to enlighten those who believe in God and the Last Day. And whosoever reverences God, He will create a solution for him.
Rashad Khalifa Once the interim is fulfilled, you may reconcile with them equitably, or go through with the separation equitably. You shall have two equitable witnesses witness the divorce before GOD. This is to enlighten those who believe in GOD and the Last Day. Anyone who reverences GOD, He will create an exit for him.
Yusuf Ali Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, either take them back on equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish the evidence (as) before Allah. Such is the admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever) prepares a way out,653
Transliteration Wayarzuqhu min haythu la yahtasibu waman yatawakkal AAala Allahi fahuwa hasbuhu inna Allaha balighu amrihi qad jaAAala Allahu likulli shay-in qadran
Literal And He provides for him from where/when he does not think/suppose, and who relies/depends on God, so He is enough for him, that truly God (is) delivering/accomplishing His order/command , God had made/put to every thing a predestiny/quantity/value.
Free-Minds And He will provide for him whence he never expected. Anyone who puts his trust in God, then He suffices him. God's commands will be done. God has decreed for everything its fate.
Rashad Khalifa And will provide for him whence he never expected. Anyone who trusts in GOD, He suffices him. GOD's commands are done. GOD has decreed for everything its fate.
Yusuf Ali And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah, sufficient is (Allah) for him. For Allah will surely accomplish his purpose verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion.654
Transliteration Waalla-ee ya-isna mina almaheedi min nisa-ikum ini irtabtum faAAiddatuhunna thalathatu ashhurin waalla-ee lam yahidna waolatu al-ahmali ajaluhunna an yadaAAna hamlahunna waman yattaqi Allaha yajAAal lahu min amrihi yusran
Literal And those (F) who became infertile/despaired from the menstruation from your women, if you became doubtful/suspicious, so their term/count (is) three months, and those (F) who did not menstruate, and (those) of the pregnant , their term/time (is) that (E) they (F) give birth/drop their (F) off spring/loads/pregnancies , and who fears and obeys God, He makes/puts from his matter/affair ease/flexibility.
Free-Minds As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. And as for those whose menstruation has ceased, and those who are already pregnant, their interim is until they give birth. And anyone who reverences God, He makes his matters easy for him.
Rashad Khalifa As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. As for those who do not menstruate, and discover that they are pregnant, their interim ends upon giving birth. Anyone who reverences GOD, He makes everything easy for him.
Yusuf Ali Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same) for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.655
Transliteration Thalika amru Allahi anzalahu ilaykum waman yattaqi Allaha yukaffir AAanhu sayyi-atihi wayuAAthim lahu ajran
Literal That (is) God's order/command, He descended it to you, and who fears and obeys God, He covers/substitutes from him his sins/crimes and He magnifies for him a reward .
Free-Minds This is God's command that He sends down to you. And anyone who is aware of God, He will remit his sins, and will improve his reward.
Rashad Khalifa This is GOD's command that He sends down to you. Anyone who reverences GOD, He remits his sins, and rewards him generously.
Yusuf Ali That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down to you and if any one fears Allah, He will remove his ills, from him, and will enlarge his reward.656
Transliteration Askinoohunna min haythu sakantum min wujdikum wala tudarroohunna litudayyiqoo AAalayhinna wa-in kunna olati hamlin faanfiqoo AAalayhinna hatta yadaAAna hamlahunna fa-in ardaAAna lakum faatoohunna ojoorahunna wa/tamiroo baynakum bimaAAroofin wa-in taAAasartum fasaturdiAAu lahu okhra
Literal Reside/make them (F) live from where you resided from your wealth/capability , and do not harm them (F) to tighten/strain on them (F), and if they (F) were of pregnancy so spend on them until they give birth/drop their loads/off spring/pregnancy , so if they (F) breast fed for you (wet nursed), so give/bring them their (F) rewards , and consult each other, between you with kindness/generosity , and if you had difficulty/hardship , so another will breast feed (wet nurse) for him.
Free-Minds You shall let them reside in the home you were in when you were together, and do not coerce them to make them leave. And if they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. Then, if they nurse the infant, you shall pay them their due for such. And you shall maintain the amicable relations between you. If you disagree, then another woman may nurse the child.
Rashad Khalifa You shall allow them to live in the same home in which they lived with you, and do not make life so miserable for them that they leave on their own. If they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. If they nurse the infant, you shall pay them for this service. You shall maintain the amicable relations among you. If you disagree, you may hire another woman to nurse the child
Yusuf Ali Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as ye live, according to your means Annoy them not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them until they deliver their burden and if they suckle your (offspring), give them their recompense and take mutual counsel together, according to what is just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.657
Transliteration Liyunfiq thoo saAAatin min saAAatihi waman qudira AAalayhi rizquhu falyunfiq mimma atahu Allahu la yukallifu Allahu nafsan illa ma ataha sayajAAalu Allahu baAAda AAusrin yusran
Literal (The owner) of a wealth/abundance (is) to spend from his wealth/abundance, and whom his provision was tightened/strained on him, so he should spend from what God gave him, God does not burden/impose (on) a self except what He gave it, God will make/create after difficulty/hardship , ease/flexibility.
Free-Minds The rich shall provide support in accordance with his means, and the poor shall provide according to the means that God bestowed upon him. God does not burden any soul more than He has given it. God will provide ease after difficulty.
Rashad Khalifa The rich husband shall provide support in accordance with his means, and the poor shall provide according to the means that GOD bestowed upon him. GOD does not impose on any soul more than He has given it. GOD will provide ease after difficulty.
Yusuf Ali Let the man of means spend according to his means and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allah has given him. Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him. After a difficulty, Allah will soon grant relief. -
Salaam Farida, all
To my understanding, the quraan does not decide which gender is richer than the other, but from verse 434, I take the first part as a general statement, inforcing my understanding of "nisaa'" to mean those vulnerable and thus poor in this context, including children. So, whichever of the parents is richer, should provide for the children until they stand on their feet and become independent. In case the parents are poor or dead, the children become part of (the vulnerable kids and the orphans ى, and that's why we do not find a verse explicitly explaing the financial responsibility regarding children. Details should be based for every case on this principle and set by the community.
As Salaam Alaikum
Thank you Samia, for responding to this issue. We need to understand Quranic guidance to this situation, in view of the ever increasing number of divorces with children involved.
I believe that the Qur?an is for everyone and all should understand it according to their own logic. For me I have to apply guidance from the Quran into life experiences and, so far I find AQ addresses all situations justly, but IMQ is trying to impose his understanding of the Quran on the status of the man in relation to his children and on divorce. Such unjust views make me sick and could well drive many women away from the guidance. Therefore I would request you to discuss it in detail.
As you say it?s for the community to decide, so in India too a system, similar to what Siki described, exists but, here in the UK, fathers employ all sorts of tricks to avoid paying maintenance just to spite the ex-wife, even if they earn good money. They expect the state to look after their children and yet no one tells them about their duty, in accordance with the Qur?an.
Children are expected to obey their fathers, no matter what. I did not see IMQ giving his opinion on this subject under family issue/parenting of this forum.We have seen enough threads on this forum that focus on women; how they should dress and how they should behave. I think it?s about time we discussed how we should all behave and play our part in the community.
Best regards
farida -
Salaams,
Al Quran doesn't decide which gender is richer than the other, but Allah does give the responsibility to the men to maintain and provide for the women.
And please, how many times are you gonna have to be shown again that taking rijaal and nisaa as anything other than men and women in 434 is just wrong and ridiculous? You can't enforce part of a meaning of a word as the primary or only meaning of the word for an ayat of Al Quran without it making sense...but wait...this isn't your first time to do that is it? hmm
Does it say in Al Quran that the richer parent has responsibility for the kids? or the husband?
So now kids with poor parents become part of "yataamaa" also?
You don't see anything in these ayaat below that include the mentioning of financial responsibility regarding children? o
Salaam brother!
I am really convinced by your logic and systemic and rational approach.
Keep up good work. -
Salaam brother!
I am really convinced by your logic and systemic and rational approach.
Keep up good work.Salaam brother Al-Quran only,
Nice to see another voice of reason and logic around here also! sun
You keep up the good work in your threads as well, Allah willing.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
-
Peace
This is an issue, which, due to family connections, I feel very strongly about. Sadly, there are fathers who refuse to pay any child support for their children following a divorce. Such people have no right to consider themselves 'fathers' to their children, and are little more than 'bio-parents'. When a man marries a woman with children, and raises them as his wards, then he is indeed 'more of a man', and more at right to call himself the child's 'father', as it is he who puts food on their table, clothes on their backs, and a roof over their heads. Sadly, neither religious nor civil law can do much to generate payments from someone who will go to any lengths to avoid their payments. My 'father in law' (much as it loathes me to call him this) is such a man, and until recently, never paid a penny in maintenance towards his daughter. Only court action made him now pay ?50 a month, meaning that his daughter will be in her 30s before he actually settles the debt he owes (assuming he continues to pay as has been ordered) I take comfort in knowing that Allah sees what he does, and will judge him accordingly.
Peace
-
Peace
This is an issue, which, due to family connections, I feel very strongly about. Sadly, there are fathers who refuse to pay any child support for their children following a divorce. Such people have no right to consider themselves 'fathers' to their children, and are little more than 'bio-parents'. When a man marries a woman with children, and raises them as his wards, then he is indeed 'more of a man', and more at right to call himself the child's 'father', as it is he who puts food on their table, clothes on their backs, and a roof over their heads. Sadly, neither religious nor civil law can do much to generate payments from someone who will go to any lengths to avoid their payments. My 'father in law' (much as it loathes me to call him this) is such a man, and until recently, never paid a penny in maintenance towards his daughter. Only court action made him now pay ?50 a month, meaning that his daughter will be in her 30s before he actually settles the debt he owes (assuming he continues to pay as has been ordered) I take comfort in knowing that Allah sees what he does, and will judge him accordingly.
Peace
Salaam Raseem
Maybe your father in law justified a similar stance as is taken by IQO and most probably he would evade a court order, as his ex-wife would need a lot of backing and money to chase him and make him pay what he owed. May Allah show them the right path.
Nevertheless, if women want to be "equal" and take on the role as maintainer and provider, why do they even expect to receive financial support? If the men take the children, Quranically they don't get financial support from the ex-wife; so if the women assume this role, why should she, seeing that she is not following Al Quran anyway?
-
Salaam Raseem
Maybe your father in law justified a similar stance as is taken by IQO and most probably he would evade a court order, as his ex-wife would need a lot of backing and money to chase him and make him pay what he owed. May Allah show them the right path.
Salaam Farida,
My father in law is not a Muslim, infact, he could barely be considered a 'Christian' either. It is certainly fair to say, that he is not 'a God Fearing Man' by any definition. He evaded court action as long as possible, to the point where, had he not paid, he would have been imprisoned, so he is making the bare minimum payments to ensure his freedom. These are not the actions of a father, but the actions of a coward. My mother in law indeed needed a lot of backing from her new husband, and although the current situation is not ideal, it is, in a way, better than nothing. Her new husband is the man who has raised her daughter, and the man with the most right to call himself 'her father'. Allah will reveal the right path to my father in law if it is his will, and if it is not, then He will most certainly judge him for his actions when the time comes.Peace.
-
Salaam Farida,
My father in law is not a Muslim, infact, he could barely be considered a 'Christian' either. It is certainly fair to say, that he is not 'a God Fearing Man' by any definition. He evaded court action as long as possible, to the point where, had he not paid, he would have been imprisoned, so he is making the bare minimum payments to ensure his freedom. These are not the actions of a father, but the actions of a coward. My mother in law indeed needed a lot of backing from her new husband, and although the current situation is not ideal, it is, in a way, better than nothing. Her new husband is the man who has raised her daughter, and the man with the most right to call himself 'her father'. Allah will reveal the right path to my father in law if it is his will, and if it is not, then He will most certainly judge him for his actions when the time comes.Peace.
If it is some consolation your father in law is not a muslim, but its really sad to see so called Muslims evading their responsibilities, be it mother or father.
Salaam -
If it is some consolation your father in law is not a muslim, but its really sad to see so called Muslims evading their responsibilities, be it mother or father.
SalaamSalaam Farida,
Indeed, my father in law is not a Muslim. He would most likely be considered Church of England, and is White British (as am I, and my fiance) He is not, however, a religious man at all. It is sad to see anyone evading their responsibilities as a parent, regardless of their beliefs. One would hope, that a religious person would be more compelled to behave in a responsible manner and pay their dues, but sadly, many who call themselves religious, do not truly 'believe', they merely give lip-service to their religion.Peace.
-
Nice to see those who seem to know nothing, understand nothing, or care nothing about what Allah says in Al Quran about the issue; just resort to their opinions, feelings and emotions about what someone should or should not be doing.
Maybe the woman wasn't really fit to be the mother and should have given the child to the father and paid him child support; if we are to just go from opinions, feelings and emtions.
Fortunately, for those who understand and try to implement the guidance in Al Quran, we don't have to guess at such things and lead our lives by our emotions of what we FEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL only. We can set our feelings aside and try to implement the guidance given by Allah in Al Quran.
If ANYONE feels that the understandings that I have given from Al Quran are errorneous, PLEASE STEP FORWARD WITH THE AYAAT AND CONCLUSIONS FROM THOSE AYAAT TO SHOW SO.
I will be more than willing to change my understanding based off of ayaat and a better understanding of them from Al Quran...and not some opinions of emotional creatures that have nothing from Al Quran to base their opinions, feelings and emotions on.
Peace angel
-
Salaams siki,
So in this thread, me personally, I am only interested in viewpoints based directly from ayaat and their understanding that support a particular idea about how we should handle the financial responsibilities and custody issues regarding children and women during divorce. If you or any one else can provide evidence from your understanding of Al Quran, then I will be happy to discuss that and try to gain a more in depth understanding, Allah willing.
As Salaamu Alaikum, angel
I agree.
-
Nice to see those who seem to know nothing, understand nothing, or care nothing about what Allah says in Al Quran about the issue; just resort to their opinions, feelings and emotions about what someone should or should not be doing.
Maybe the woman wasn't really fit to be the mother and should have given the child to the father and paid him child support; if we are to just go from opinions, feelings and emtions.
Fortunately, for those who understand and try to implement the guidance in Al Quran, we don't have to guess at such things and lead our lives by our emotions of what we FEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL only. We can set our feelings aside and try to implement the guidance given by Allah in Al Quran.
If ANYONE feels that the understandings that I have given from Al Quran are errorneous, PLEASE STEP FORWARD WITH THE AYAAT AND CONCLUSIONS FROM THOSE AYAAT TO SHOW SO.
I will be more than willing to change my understanding based off of ayaat and a better understanding of them from Al Quran...and not some opinions of emotional creatures that have nothing from Al Quran to base their opinions, feelings and emotions on.
Peace angel
Peace
Is that rant of self-righteousness directed at me, brother? If so, I would request you do not. You know nothing of me, what I know about Islam, or what I care about the will of Allah. As with all the posts I have observed from you, you arrogantly assume to know best or correctly, when, as has been posted to you by others, you are not being clever or 'ironic' with your posts, you are merely playing with words.
If that was directed at me, I would respond that my family are white British. We live in the UK. The UK is not a Muslim country, and does not operate under Islamic Law (sadly) My father in law was not a fit father, or he would have been granted sole custody. He was not. Infact, he was issued with an injunction/restraining order for several years, because he was mentally unstable, and could have posed a threat to his daughter. He was utterly unfit to be a father, and in 20 years, has never proven otherwise. My mother in law raised her daughter well, and her new husband also raised her well as his ward. Her 'biological father', did everything within his power to never pay child maintenance, and never paid a penny, untill she was already over the legal age as an adult, yet always has the nerve to act like he is a perfect father, and a blameless individual. The truth of the matter, is he is a passive/aggressive bully and a coward.
Al Qur'an specifies that a father must make payments for their children following divorce. My father in law did not do that, until threatened with incarceration. (Had he not agreed to pay at his last court appearance, he would not have left the court a free man, but would have been remanded in custody. That is the level and severity which the situation had reached ) He will have to answer to the judgement of Allah for that, and many other things when it is his time to do so.
If your post was not directed at me, (it appeared to be, or, possibly just a baiting exercise to see who would bite) then please disregard my post.
Peace.
-
Peace to you RaseemNaqqaash,
First, if I want to direct something at you...I will call your name. Other than that, if the shoe fits, you are the one choosing to wear it in public. I didn't put it on your foot. I you have read so many of my posts as you claim, you will know that I have no problem addressing whomever I choose to by their name; just as I am addressing you here now!
Secondly, I personally don't care about your opinions of me and my posts. Your opinion means nothing as can be construed from the fact that you still like to drink alcohol and try to justify it errorneously from Al Quran. As Allah says in Al Quran, don't count your conversion to Islam as a favor to us, but know that Allah has conferred a favor on you for the invitation. So you coming here arrogantly accusing me and making comments about my posts when you still know virtually nothing, is nothing more than a sign of your arrogance.
Third, I don't care about your personal experience. I am not your friend and don't care to know. Again, if you had read so many of my posts as you claim, you would know that I urge people not to tell their personal life in here because personal experiences neither prove nor disprove anything from Al Quran. I am not here to be your friend per se. I have lived long enough to know that not all so called "muslims" will be my friend, and that I will have friends even from those that don't call themselves "muslims". I am here to study, discuss and debate the meaning of Al Quran. If you are here for another reason, I would recommend that you ignore my posts, cause that is all that you will get from me, other than a correction such as this one.
Finally, you need to humble yourself and try to understand Al Quran before you start out on this forum trying to tell everyone what you think it means with authority. You are gonna end up finding that you are misleading many people, as others do here, and then if you truly fear Allah, one day you will regret your arrogance and ignorance. Your positions on alcohol and child support are not thoroughly researched from Al Quran as I can tell by your writing. You simply read something that someone else wrote that you liked and jumped on the bandwagon. Well, Satan and Hellfire have bandwagons as well. So enjoy.
Salaams, jedi
Peace
Is that rant of self-righteousness directed at me, brother? If so, I would request you do not. You know nothing of me, what I know about Islam, or what I care about the will of Allah. As with all the posts I have observed from you, you arrogantly assume to know best or correctly, when, as has been posted to you by others, you are not being clever or 'ironic' with your posts, you are merely playing with words.
If that was directed at me, I would respond that my family are white British. We live in the UK. The UK is not a Muslim country, and does not operate under Islamic Law (sadly) My father in law was not a fit father, or he would have been granted sole custody. He was not. Infact, he was issued with an injunction/restraining order for several years, because he was mentally unstable, and could have posed a threat to his daughter. He was utterly unfit to be a father, and in 20 years, has never proven otherwise. My mother in law raised her daughter well, and her new husband also raised her well as his ward. Her 'biological father', did everything within his power to never pay child maintenance, and never paid a penny, untill she was already over the legal age as an adult, yet always has the nerve to act like he is a perfect father, and a blameless individual. The truth of the matter, is he is a passive/aggressive bully and a coward.
Al Qur'an specifies that a father must make payments for their children following divorce. My father in law did not do that, until threatened with incarceration. (Had he not agreed to pay at his last court appearance, he would not have left the court a free man, but would have been remanded in custody. That is the level and severity which the situation had reached ) He will have to answer to the judgement of Allah for that, and many other things when it is his time to do so.
If your post was not directed at me, (it appeared to be, or, possibly just a baiting exercise to see who would bite) then please disregard my post.
Peace.
-
From IQO
Ah, the irony...The irony is that you follow me around like some little puppy to stick your poo next to whatever I write. Do you have a fetish about me and my posts? confused