Greetings
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me too, brother. Ramadan is wonderful, especially with other Muslims. may God's peace and guidance be with you too, Raseem. peace
Peace sister
When Ramadan approached, I was initially concerned about feeling hungry and uncomfortable & eat
but, that was certainly not the case at all, and, for the first few days, until my body adapted to the different intakes, I felt truly euphoric. sun I had not felt so... alive... for many years, it was a truly remarkable feeling, and one that only increased my decision to follow Islam ) sunPeace
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Peace
I cannot translate it literally, as I have not yet learned Arabic.
If you would care to translate it, I would be most interested to read it, and your interperetation of it.Peace
Peace,
Dear Brother,
I will only in a friendly way tell you that some members like to ridicule and make ironic comments to others, but don't fell in their trap, they have just problem with their big EGO. Raise above that. Why you need his translations of the verse when there are already many translations. I bet he will only confuse you with his sunni interpretations.Maria
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Peace,
Dear Brother,
I will only in a friendly way tell you that some members like to ridicule and make ironic comments to others, but don't fell in their trap, they have just problem with their big EGO. Raise above that. Why you need his translations of the verse when there are already many translations. I bet he will only confuse you with his sunni interpretations.Maria
Peace, sister.
Indeed, I realized that the passage quoted, was the same as that which was quoted above, so indeed, any translation would be the same, the only difference perhaps being interpretations, and as you say, sunni interpretations at that. As OPF pointed out, the commandment about not coming to prayer while drunk, would be redundant if one could not consume intoxicants at all. That is certainly how I understood the passage to read, and, as mentioned previously, while there is specific commandments stating flesh of swine is forbidden, there is nothing stating alcohol is forbiden. It would appear there are those on the forum who claim to be Qur'an-Only, when their interperetation is more one of sunnism.
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Peace, sister.
Indeed, I realized that the passage quoted, was the same as that which was quoted above, so indeed, any translation would be the same, the only difference perhaps being interpretations, and as you say, sunni interpretations at that. As OPF pointed out, the commandment about not coming to prayer while drunk, would be redundant if one could not consume intoxicants at all. That is certainly how I understood the passage to read, and, as mentioned previously, while there is specific commandments stating flesh of swine is forbidden, there is nothing stating alcohol is forbiden. It would appear there are those on the forum who claim to be Qur'an-Only, when their interperetation is more one of sunnism.
Peace,
Yes, exactly! We shall keep our eyes open. And it's correct that there aren't any commands in Quran similiar to that of flesh of swine is forbidden, when it comes to alcohol. If we are aware of what alcohol can do to our mind and body, then we are responsible of what we consume anyway.
Maria
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According to Quran use of wine is a DIRTY,FILTHY ,SATANIC ACT.
Does Quran allow SATANIC ACTS?590
(590) Believers! Intoxicants, games of chance, idolatrous sacrifices at altars, and divining arrows *108 are all abominations, the handiwork of Satan. So turn wholly away from it that you may attain to true success.591
(591) By intoxicants and games of chance Satan only desires to create enmity and hatred between you, and to turn you away from the remembrance of Allah and from Prayer. Will you, then, desist?QURAN ALSO DECLARES VERY CLEARLY FOR COMPANIONS OF 'SATAN"
4119
He who took Satan rather than Allah for his guardian has indeed suffered a man-ifest loss. -
Peace,
Yes, exactly! We shall keep our eyes open. And it's correct that there aren't any commands in Quran similiar to that of flesh of swine is forbidden, when it comes to alcohol. If we are aware of what alcohol can do to our mind and body, then we are responsible of what we consume anyway.
Maria
Peace,
Absolutely, the text leaves it entirely up to us for our own decision
According to Quran use of wine is a DIRTY,FILTHY ,SATANIC ACT.
Does Quran allow SATANIC ACTS?590
(590) Believers! Intoxicants, games of chance, idolatrous sacrifices at altars, and divining arrows *108 are all abominations, the handiwork of Satan. So turn wholly away from it that you may attain to true success.591
(591) By intoxicants and games of chance Satan only desires to create enmity and hatred between you, and to turn you away from the remembrance of Allah and from Prayer. Will you, then, desist?QURAN ALSO DECLARES VERY CLEARLY FOR COMPANIONS OF 'SATAN"
4119
He who took Satan rather than Allah for his guardian has indeed suffered a man-ifest loss.Calm yourself, brother.
Quote 1 Does not say "Alcohol is forbidden."Quote 2 Closes on a question, not a commandment. It leaves the matter open to an individual's free will.
Quote 3 False statement. No one is taking Satan as a guardian simply by consuming alcohol, which, once more, is not specifically forbidden. As shown above, the commandment about praying while drunk, would be redundant if someone could not consume intoxicants at all. It leaves the issue open to a person's own choice and free will.
If all you are going to do is attempt to argue that Al Qur'an forbids alcohol, when it clearly does not, please do not waste your time or mine by directing posts to me. You are not going to change my opinion on this matter, as Al Qur'an is clear in its text, and it, a physical book, is always going to outweigh the opinion of someone trolling for a fight. If there is text or commandment which specifically states "intoxicants/alcohol are forbidden", then post it. If not, stop attempting to twist the text to mean what you want them to mean.
Peace
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According to Quran use of wine is a DIRTY,FILTHY ,SATANIC ACT.
Does Quran allow SATANIC ACTS?590
(590) Believers! Intoxicants, games of chance, idolatrous sacrifices at altars, and divining arrows *108 are all abominations, the handiwork of Satan. So turn wholly away from it that you may attain to true success.591
(591) By intoxicants and games of chance Satan only desires to create enmity and hatred between you, and to turn you away from the remembrance of Allah and from Prayer. Will you, then, desist?QURAN ALSO DECLARES VERY CLEARLY FOR COMPANIONS OF 'SATAN"
4119
He who took Satan rather than Allah for his guardian has indeed suffered a man-ifest loss.Peace,
I agree with Br Raseem, it's no use of twisting the words in Quran.
I can smell the reason to why alcohol isn't forbidden, because there is some good in it also ,but flesh and blood from swine is foul and can never be good for us therefore God forbid it.Satan are a creation by our own bad side, we do have both good and bad in us. we choose to behave in the way we like to therefore we are responsible for our own act and no one else can pay for someone elses errors.
To drink alcohol like a glass of wine or a beer doesn't make you drunk if you don't over consumate it. But this goes for many things. If we over consumate it's always bad for us.
So we must always stay clear of what is good for us and what can I eat and drink today to feel healthy. To scare people with satan isn't something new and it's often done by people who don't feel secure with their own needs. They must have some rules to follow, they cannot realize by their own what is good and what is bad for them.
Maria
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Peace,
I agree with Br Raseem, it's no use of twisting the words in Quran.
I can smell the reason to why alcohol isn't forbidden, because there is some good in it also ,but flesh and blood from swine is foul and can never be good for us therefore God forbid it.Satan are a creation by our own bad side, we do have both good and bad in us. we choose to behave in the way we like to therefore we are responsible for our own act and no one else can pay for someone elses errors.
To drink alcohol like a glass of wine or a beer doesn't make you drunk if you don't over consumate it. But this goes for many things. If we over consumate it's always bad for us.
So we must always stay clear of what is good for us and what can I eat and drink today to feel healthy. To scare people with satan isn't something new and it's often done by people who don't feel secure with their own needs. They must have some rules to follow, they cannot realize by their own what is good and what is bad for them.
Maria
Peace and thanks, Sister Maria, it is good to know that there are others who agree that alcohol is not strictly forbidden. The belief that it is strictly forbidden, would appear to be that sunnism you warned about previously
Peace
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Peace,
Absolutely, the text leaves it entirely up to us for our own decision
Calm yourself, brother.
Quote 1 Does not say "Alcohol is forbidden."Quote 2 Closes on a question, not a commandment. It leaves the matter open to an individual's free will.
Quote 3 False statement. No one is taking Satan as a guardian simply by consuming alcohol, which, once more, is not specifically forbidden. As shown above, the commandment about praying while drunk, would be redundant if someone could not consume intoxicants at all. It leaves the issue open to a person's own choice and free will.
If all you are going to do is attempt to argue that Al Qur'an forbids alcohol, when it clearly does not, please do not waste your time or mine by directing posts to me. You are not going to change my opinion on this matter, as Al Qur'an is clear in its text, and it, a physical book, is always going to outweigh the opinion of someone trolling for a fight. If there is text or commandment which specifically states "intoxicants/alcohol are forbidden", then post it. If not, stop attempting to twist the text to mean what you want them to mean.
Peace
Acts are either allowed or forbidden.
Since Khamar /gambling is an satanic act,it cannot be allowed so forbidden.
But only for muslims -
Peace and thanks, Sister Maria, it is good to know that there are others who agree that alcohol is not strictly forbidden. The belief that it is strictly forbidden, would appear to be that sunnism you warned about previously Peace
Peace,
You are welcome and it's likely that cause
Maria
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Acts are either allowed or forbidden.
Since Khamar /gambling is an satanic act,it cannot be allowed so forbidden.
But only for muslimsPeace,
There are always a middle road too.
Things can be said to be avoided but not proven to be forbidden.
Maria
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Peace,
There are always a middle road too.
Things can be said to be avoided but not proven to be forbidden.
Maria
There is no middle road
Either Truth or false
Either Right path or wrong path
Either Haqq /Baatil
Either Friend of Shaytaan or friend of RehmanQuran cannot allow "satanic acts"
Khamar/Gambling are satanic acts.
That is allowed to Satan companions only. -
There is no middle road
Either Truth or false
Either Right path or wrong path
Either Haqq /Baatil
Either Friend of Shaytaan or friend of RehmanQuran cannot allow "satanic acts"
Khamar/Gambling are satanic acts.
That is allowed to Satan companions only.Peace,
I must say i both agree and disagree with you on this.
Yes, it's clear that it exist right and wrong, true and false etc but how your path will end up in either the one of the chosen is up to you.
God didn't point out that it is haram to consumate alcohol but neither he pointed out that it is halal to consumate it so what you get here? You get something in middle of good and bad, right!
Maria
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Peace,
I must say i both agree and disagree with you on this.
Yes, it's clear that it exist right and wrong, true and false etc but how your path will end up in either the one of the chosen is up to you.
God didn't point out that it is haram to consumate alcohol but neither he pointed out that it is halal to consumate it so what you get here? You get something in middle of good and bad, right!
Maria
Did not God say ,that Khamar is a satanic act ,avoid it.
Anyway you cannot understand this Quranic command.
Difficult for me to discuss with those who advocate "satanic acts"
Bye -
Peace and thanks.
Indeed, there is no commandment telling someone to change their name, and this is why I have not done so. However, historically, some Muslim converts have adopted Arabic names, and I felt it would be appropriate to use such a name, in this instance. As mentioned before, the names I chose represent who I am and what I do.Yes but islam is a system for mankind, not a religion from Arabs. That's the key issue here. Just because Arabs claim god to themselves means jack s***, and in 997 they (arabs) aren't portrayed very nicely at all - would an Arab-biased god really write that?
"Lack of commitment" is an ugly phrase, and certainly does not apply to the situation where I broke my fast. Had I not broken my fast, I would have been the only person in the restaurant not eating. I would have been the only person at the table not eating. That would have created an incredibly noticeable, and uncomfortable situation for everyone else. It was easier, to eat a small amount of food, and make up the fast afterwards. Allah will know that it was my intention to fast, and that I did not choose to eat out of desire for food, but so as someone else, would not feel uncomfortable. The Holy Qur'an allows people to make up fasts as necessary. It may be sunnah/hadith rather than sura, but I have since read in a book about Islam, that if someone who is fasting is offered food, they should accept it (as to refuse would be rude, and because they are not eating because they choose to do so) and make up the fast afterwards. That may only be sunnah/hadith, and, as a Qur'an Alone Muslim, I do not follow the sunnah/hadith of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and indeed, I was not aware of that text at the time when I broke my fast, but, it would certainly make sense for Allah to forgive someone breaking a fast for such a reason, as Allah forgives Muslims who are forced to eat flesh of swine (either out of starvation, or by being literally force-fed) and flesh of swine, is something which is utterly forbidden.
Actually that is still a 'lack of committment'. I can't obviously say anything about it because I have no idea about your situation, but you have to note that you have to act towards good in your own power as a muslim regardless of what that entails. Let's extrapolate, instead of a restuarant, you are at a KKK meeting and about to crucify someone, would you refrain from speaking out against it to avoid causing a scene? Muslims are scene-makers when the situation needs it for the greater good. You should take note the story of Abraham in the quran, who is the embodiment of a muslim (227. There is a reason Abraham's life is explained in such great detail compared to everyone else, simply because he was a model citizen and the situations allowed for his 'muslim qualities' to be exhibited as best as possible. Of course, to make a distinction between messengers isn't a great idea but nonetheless, a great example.
I do not think my brother was trying to suggest that people can choose to follow or not, afterall, as Muslims, we submit ourselves to Allah's will, I believe he was simply trying to point out, that there are people who have been raised as Muslims, who do not keep to the fasts, yet as a convert, I had already fasted completely for almost all of Ramadan, so should not be overly hard on myself, when there were other Muslims who had not kept to the fasts as much, or for as long, as I had.
That's understandable. Converts tend to have the most zeal for their religion (converts into sunni-ism tend to have a very extreme mindset, I have no idea why) and cultural muslims rarely practice what they preach as far as I've seen.
The Holy Qur'an states the month for fasting, and the times where fast should be observed. If that knowledge is to then be applied to the existing Arabic calender, then that would make perfect sense. It does not have to be specifically 30 days by the Gregorian calender, it is a month as measured by the phases of the moon.
That's questionable, but there's a reason it's a whole section on this forum ;D
Peace
You too ;D
Did not God say ,that Khamar is a satanic act ,avoid it.
Anyway you cannot understand this Quranic command.
Difficult for me to discuss with those who advocate "satanic acts"
ByeI agree with that and your signature. They ARE "satanic acts" and should never be advocated by muslims for that simple reason, in addition to the damage they cause themselves (alcohol being one of the greatest killers around, let alone the cancer it causes).
On the other hand, to forbid something even the quran does not forbid is also a satanic ideal and should not be advocated either. The word you are looking for is condone, the quran does NOT condone those acts but it does NOT disallow those acts either. It tells us exactly where following through with those acts will lead however, and that is straight into the fire of hell. What the quran is doing here is bringing the camel to the (poisoned) watering hole, not forcing it to drink; the choice is ours. Drink the poison => self inflicted harm, don't drink the poison => nothing changes.
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Did not God say ,that Khamar is a satanic act ,avoid it.
Anyway you cannot understand this Quranic command.
Difficult for me to discuss with those who advocate "satanic acts"
ByePeace,
Well the act of shaitan is mentioned due to the possibility of doing wrong things if we overconsumate alcohol. God must put out the worst thing that can happen but that doesn't mean it must happen.
Actually I don't need to drink alcohol and it's very rare I do but when i do I only take small amounts and only of that I think taste good as wine and sometimes beer.
I'm not at all promote people to drink alcohol, it's very good to abstain from it. But still it's up to everyone to decide if they want to taste sum and that doesn't make them to do satanic acts. I think some people avoid alcohol because they cannot control their intake and that is of course a good way to abstain from it then. But we who can act normal and know our limits and feel to take a glass or two sometimes without creating problems to ourselves or to others why blame us then? Satan can only fool people who let them be fooled.whatever
Maria
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Peace,
You are welcome and it's likely that cause
Maria
Peace Sister Maria,
I think it is likely that cause
Peace.
Did not God say ,that Khamar is a satanic act ,avoid it.
Anyway you cannot understand this Quranic command.
Difficult for me to discuss with those who advocate "satanic acts"
ByePeace brother
Allah did not say that Alcohol is forbidden anywhere in Al Qur'an. Forbidden foods and acts are specified. Without specification, such things cannot be forbidden (even if warned against), they can only be left to a person's free will to choose for themself.
you are clearly the one who cannot understand Qur'anic command not to come to prayer while drunk, but to wait till you understand what you say. For a Muslim to come to prayer drunk, then they must have consumed alcohol. If alcohol is forbidden (which it is not) then the command not to come to prayer while drunk would be redundant and irrelevent. Nothing in Al Qur'an is redundant or irrelevent.
Peace.
Yes but islam is a system for mankind, not a religion from Arabs. That's the key issue here. Just because Arabs claim god to themselves means jack s***, and in 997 they (arabs) aren't portrayed very nicely at all - would an Arab-biased god really write that?
You're absolutely right there about how non-believing Arabs are portrayed. However, there still exists the precedent of converts to Islam adopting Arabic names. Malcolm X, and Yussuf (Cat Stevens) Islam to name but two
Actually that is still a 'lack of committment'. I can't obviously say anything about it because I have no idea about your situation, but you have to note that you have to act towards good in your own power as a muslim regardless of what that entails.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, in many passages in Al Qur'an, particularly ones refering to abstaining from certain things, or doing certain things (such as fasting) there is also the accompanying statement that Allah does not wish difficulty for us, but wishes for our ease. Is that not correct?
In the situation I encountered, before my immediate family had come to undestand my conversion to Islam, keeping to the fast on that occasion would have created numerous difficulties, and served to alienate me from those I love. Also, as we travelled 60 miles for the meal, I forget if it is specified in Al Qur'an or sunnah/hadith, but I read online, in my research into Islam and Ramadan in particular, that someone travelling such a distance, does not actually have to observe the fast as they are travelling.
Let's extrapolate, instead of a restuarant, you are at a KKK meeting and about to crucify someone, would you refrain from speaking out against it to avoid causing a scene?
That is an utterly ludicrous extrapolation. No one was being crucified in the restaurant. There were no lives in danger (other than from possible food poisoning ) so the situation really isn't comparable at all.
That's understandable. Converts tend to have the most zeal for their religion (converts into sunni-ism tend to have a very extreme mindset, I have no idea why) and cultural muslims rarely practice what they preach as far as I've seen.
The same could be said of cultural christians/catholics/insert religion of choice here... People who are 'culturally religious' tend to follow religious practice (including created dogma) simply out of habit, and, there is indeed a passage in Al Qur'an which states that a person should not follow the practices of their fathers, if their fathers are incorrect (probably not a word-perfect recal of the passage, but the gist is there)
Indeed, my brother was trying to point out that I need not be so hard on myself, as, I had fasted for over 20 days, and had only been a Muslim a matter of weeks prior to Ramadan, so had already 'done better' than many 'cultural Muslims'. Allah will know that my intent was to fast the full month, and that that day's fast was not broken for my own personal gain, but because to have kept the fast would have created unnecessary difficulties, and, as mentioned, there were conditions allowing the breaking of the fast (travelling), and acknowledgement that Allah only wishes our ease.That's questionable, but there's a reason it's a whole section on this forum ;D
I shall be sure to give it some reading )
On the other hand, to forbid something even the quran does not forbid is also a satanic ideal and should not be advocated either. The word you are looking for is condone, the quran does NOT condone those acts but it does NOT disallow those acts either
This was the point precicely. Our brother is attempting to distort the text of Al Qur'an to fit his argument that a Muslim is not allowed to drink alcohol. As you pointed out previously, if a Muslim was not allowed to consume intoxicants at all, then the commandment not to come to prayer while drunk, would be redundant and unnecessary. By it's mention, as you said, it is acknowledging that Muslims can/will consume intoxicants. All other passages refering to wine and games of chance, are merely posting severe warnings, but ultimately, leaving the choice up to the individual.
Not sure if it would be a relevent point, but,
John 2
Miracle at Cana
1On (A)the third day there was a wedding in (B)Cana of Galilee, and the (C)mother of Jesus was there;2and both Jesus and His (D)disciples were invited to the wedding.
3When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to Him, "They have no wine."
4And Jesus said to her, "(E)Woman, (F)what does that have to do with us? (G)My hour has not yet come."
5His (H)mother said to the servants, "Whatever He says to you, do it."
6Now there were six stone waterpots set there (I)for the Jewish custom of purification, containing twenty or thirty gallons each.
7Jesus said to them, "Fill the waterpots with water." So they filled them up to the brim.
8And He said to them, "Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter." So they took it to him.
9When the headwaiter tasted the water (J)which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom,
10and said to him, "Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people (K)have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now."
11This beginning of His (L)signs Jesus did in Cana of (M)Galilee, and manifested His (N)glory, and His disciples believed in Him.
If Jesus' abilities were granted by Allah, why would Allah permit him to perform such acts which would lead to people commiting 'satanic acts'. I fully submit that this is not Qur'anic text, but, it is still attributed to one of Allah's prophets, and, an example of wine being permitted at certain times (and not for excessive consumption)
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Peace brother
Allah did not say that Alcohol is forbidden anywhere in Al Qur'an. Forbidden foods and acts are specified. Without specification, such things cannot be forbidden (even if warned against), they can only be left to a person's free will to choose for themself.
you are clearly the one who cannot understand Qur'anic command not to come to prayer while drunk, but to wait till you understand what you say. For a Muslim to come to prayer drunk, then they must have consumed alcohol. If alcohol is forbidden (which it is not) then the command not to come to prayer while drunk would be redundant and irrelevent. Nothing in Al Qur'an is redundant or irrelevent.
You want to say that Quran allows "Satanic acts" .This is big blame on the Quran.
Quran declares Khamar /Gambling as Satanic ACTS and asks muslims to avoid it in the same verse.
In ohter verses there is clear instruction not to follow Satanic ways but I do not know why you are insisting in adopting "satanic ways".2168
(216 O people, eat of what is lawful and clean in the earth and do not follow the ways of Satan, *166 for he is your avowed enemy
2208
(220 O Believers, enter completely into Islam *226 and do not follow in" the footsteps of Satan, for he is your avowed enemy.
6142
(6142) And of the cattle (He has reared) some for burden, and some whose flesh you eat and whose skins and hair you use to spread the ground. *117 Eat of the sustenance Allah has provided you and do not follow in the footsteps of Satan, for surely he is your open enemy
2421
(2421) O Believers, do not follow in Satan's footsteps, for he will incite to indecency and wickedness any who will follow him. If Allah had not shown His Brace and mercy to you, none of you would have been able to cleanse yourself, *18 for it is Allah alone Who cleanses whom He wills, and Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing -
You want to say that Quran allows "Satanic acts" .This is big blame on the Quran.
Quran declares Khamar /Gambling as Satanic ACTS and asks muslims to avoid it in the same verse.
In ohter verses there is clear instruction not to follow Satanic ways but I do not know why you are insisting in adopting "satanic ways".Peace brother.
Does Al Qur'an state that a Muslim should not come to prayer while intoxicated, but to wait until they understand what they say? Yes or No.
Does Al Qur'an specifically state that alcohol/intoxicants are forbidden, as it specifically states that flesh of swine is forbidden? Yes or No.
Peace
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Peace,
Al-Quran is supposed to be a guideline for mankind during all times and therefore no one can say that the verse of not coming to salat while intoxicated is for earlier rules as I have seen comment from others sometimes when this is mentioned.
That verse is in Quran and should be taken into account as everything else.
Maria