Greetings
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Peace,
I must say i both agree and disagree with you on this.
Yes, it's clear that it exist right and wrong, true and false etc but how your path will end up in either the one of the chosen is up to you.
God didn't point out that it is haram to consumate alcohol but neither he pointed out that it is halal to consumate it so what you get here? You get something in middle of good and bad, right!
Maria
Did not God say ,that Khamar is a satanic act ,avoid it.
Anyway you cannot understand this Quranic command.
Difficult for me to discuss with those who advocate "satanic acts"
Bye -
Peace and thanks.
Indeed, there is no commandment telling someone to change their name, and this is why I have not done so. However, historically, some Muslim converts have adopted Arabic names, and I felt it would be appropriate to use such a name, in this instance. As mentioned before, the names I chose represent who I am and what I do.Yes but islam is a system for mankind, not a religion from Arabs. That's the key issue here. Just because Arabs claim god to themselves means jack s***, and in 997 they (arabs) aren't portrayed very nicely at all - would an Arab-biased god really write that?
"Lack of commitment" is an ugly phrase, and certainly does not apply to the situation where I broke my fast. Had I not broken my fast, I would have been the only person in the restaurant not eating. I would have been the only person at the table not eating. That would have created an incredibly noticeable, and uncomfortable situation for everyone else. It was easier, to eat a small amount of food, and make up the fast afterwards. Allah will know that it was my intention to fast, and that I did not choose to eat out of desire for food, but so as someone else, would not feel uncomfortable. The Holy Qur'an allows people to make up fasts as necessary. It may be sunnah/hadith rather than sura, but I have since read in a book about Islam, that if someone who is fasting is offered food, they should accept it (as to refuse would be rude, and because they are not eating because they choose to do so) and make up the fast afterwards. That may only be sunnah/hadith, and, as a Qur'an Alone Muslim, I do not follow the sunnah/hadith of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and indeed, I was not aware of that text at the time when I broke my fast, but, it would certainly make sense for Allah to forgive someone breaking a fast for such a reason, as Allah forgives Muslims who are forced to eat flesh of swine (either out of starvation, or by being literally force-fed) and flesh of swine, is something which is utterly forbidden.
Actually that is still a 'lack of committment'. I can't obviously say anything about it because I have no idea about your situation, but you have to note that you have to act towards good in your own power as a muslim regardless of what that entails. Let's extrapolate, instead of a restuarant, you are at a KKK meeting and about to crucify someone, would you refrain from speaking out against it to avoid causing a scene? Muslims are scene-makers when the situation needs it for the greater good. You should take note the story of Abraham in the quran, who is the embodiment of a muslim (227. There is a reason Abraham's life is explained in such great detail compared to everyone else, simply because he was a model citizen and the situations allowed for his 'muslim qualities' to be exhibited as best as possible. Of course, to make a distinction between messengers isn't a great idea but nonetheless, a great example.
I do not think my brother was trying to suggest that people can choose to follow or not, afterall, as Muslims, we submit ourselves to Allah's will, I believe he was simply trying to point out, that there are people who have been raised as Muslims, who do not keep to the fasts, yet as a convert, I had already fasted completely for almost all of Ramadan, so should not be overly hard on myself, when there were other Muslims who had not kept to the fasts as much, or for as long, as I had.
That's understandable. Converts tend to have the most zeal for their religion (converts into sunni-ism tend to have a very extreme mindset, I have no idea why) and cultural muslims rarely practice what they preach as far as I've seen.
The Holy Qur'an states the month for fasting, and the times where fast should be observed. If that knowledge is to then be applied to the existing Arabic calender, then that would make perfect sense. It does not have to be specifically 30 days by the Gregorian calender, it is a month as measured by the phases of the moon.
That's questionable, but there's a reason it's a whole section on this forum ;D
Peace
You too ;D
Did not God say ,that Khamar is a satanic act ,avoid it.
Anyway you cannot understand this Quranic command.
Difficult for me to discuss with those who advocate "satanic acts"
ByeI agree with that and your signature. They ARE "satanic acts" and should never be advocated by muslims for that simple reason, in addition to the damage they cause themselves (alcohol being one of the greatest killers around, let alone the cancer it causes).
On the other hand, to forbid something even the quran does not forbid is also a satanic ideal and should not be advocated either. The word you are looking for is condone, the quran does NOT condone those acts but it does NOT disallow those acts either. It tells us exactly where following through with those acts will lead however, and that is straight into the fire of hell. What the quran is doing here is bringing the camel to the (poisoned) watering hole, not forcing it to drink; the choice is ours. Drink the poison => self inflicted harm, don't drink the poison => nothing changes.
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Did not God say ,that Khamar is a satanic act ,avoid it.
Anyway you cannot understand this Quranic command.
Difficult for me to discuss with those who advocate "satanic acts"
ByePeace,
Well the act of shaitan is mentioned due to the possibility of doing wrong things if we overconsumate alcohol. God must put out the worst thing that can happen but that doesn't mean it must happen.
Actually I don't need to drink alcohol and it's very rare I do but when i do I only take small amounts and only of that I think taste good as wine and sometimes beer.
I'm not at all promote people to drink alcohol, it's very good to abstain from it. But still it's up to everyone to decide if they want to taste sum and that doesn't make them to do satanic acts. I think some people avoid alcohol because they cannot control their intake and that is of course a good way to abstain from it then. But we who can act normal and know our limits and feel to take a glass or two sometimes without creating problems to ourselves or to others why blame us then? Satan can only fool people who let them be fooled.whatever
Maria
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Peace,
You are welcome and it's likely that cause
Maria
Peace Sister Maria,
I think it is likely that cause
Peace.
Did not God say ,that Khamar is a satanic act ,avoid it.
Anyway you cannot understand this Quranic command.
Difficult for me to discuss with those who advocate "satanic acts"
ByePeace brother
Allah did not say that Alcohol is forbidden anywhere in Al Qur'an. Forbidden foods and acts are specified. Without specification, such things cannot be forbidden (even if warned against), they can only be left to a person's free will to choose for themself.
you are clearly the one who cannot understand Qur'anic command not to come to prayer while drunk, but to wait till you understand what you say. For a Muslim to come to prayer drunk, then they must have consumed alcohol. If alcohol is forbidden (which it is not) then the command not to come to prayer while drunk would be redundant and irrelevent. Nothing in Al Qur'an is redundant or irrelevent.
Peace.
Yes but islam is a system for mankind, not a religion from Arabs. That's the key issue here. Just because Arabs claim god to themselves means jack s***, and in 997 they (arabs) aren't portrayed very nicely at all - would an Arab-biased god really write that?
You're absolutely right there about how non-believing Arabs are portrayed. However, there still exists the precedent of converts to Islam adopting Arabic names. Malcolm X, and Yussuf (Cat Stevens) Islam to name but two
Actually that is still a 'lack of committment'. I can't obviously say anything about it because I have no idea about your situation, but you have to note that you have to act towards good in your own power as a muslim regardless of what that entails.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, in many passages in Al Qur'an, particularly ones refering to abstaining from certain things, or doing certain things (such as fasting) there is also the accompanying statement that Allah does not wish difficulty for us, but wishes for our ease. Is that not correct?
In the situation I encountered, before my immediate family had come to undestand my conversion to Islam, keeping to the fast on that occasion would have created numerous difficulties, and served to alienate me from those I love. Also, as we travelled 60 miles for the meal, I forget if it is specified in Al Qur'an or sunnah/hadith, but I read online, in my research into Islam and Ramadan in particular, that someone travelling such a distance, does not actually have to observe the fast as they are travelling.
Let's extrapolate, instead of a restuarant, you are at a KKK meeting and about to crucify someone, would you refrain from speaking out against it to avoid causing a scene?
That is an utterly ludicrous extrapolation. No one was being crucified in the restaurant. There were no lives in danger (other than from possible food poisoning ) so the situation really isn't comparable at all.
That's understandable. Converts tend to have the most zeal for their religion (converts into sunni-ism tend to have a very extreme mindset, I have no idea why) and cultural muslims rarely practice what they preach as far as I've seen.
The same could be said of cultural christians/catholics/insert religion of choice here... People who are 'culturally religious' tend to follow religious practice (including created dogma) simply out of habit, and, there is indeed a passage in Al Qur'an which states that a person should not follow the practices of their fathers, if their fathers are incorrect (probably not a word-perfect recal of the passage, but the gist is there)
Indeed, my brother was trying to point out that I need not be so hard on myself, as, I had fasted for over 20 days, and had only been a Muslim a matter of weeks prior to Ramadan, so had already 'done better' than many 'cultural Muslims'. Allah will know that my intent was to fast the full month, and that that day's fast was not broken for my own personal gain, but because to have kept the fast would have created unnecessary difficulties, and, as mentioned, there were conditions allowing the breaking of the fast (travelling), and acknowledgement that Allah only wishes our ease.That's questionable, but there's a reason it's a whole section on this forum ;D
I shall be sure to give it some reading )
On the other hand, to forbid something even the quran does not forbid is also a satanic ideal and should not be advocated either. The word you are looking for is condone, the quran does NOT condone those acts but it does NOT disallow those acts either
This was the point precicely. Our brother is attempting to distort the text of Al Qur'an to fit his argument that a Muslim is not allowed to drink alcohol. As you pointed out previously, if a Muslim was not allowed to consume intoxicants at all, then the commandment not to come to prayer while drunk, would be redundant and unnecessary. By it's mention, as you said, it is acknowledging that Muslims can/will consume intoxicants. All other passages refering to wine and games of chance, are merely posting severe warnings, but ultimately, leaving the choice up to the individual.
Not sure if it would be a relevent point, but,
John 2
Miracle at Cana
1On (A)the third day there was a wedding in (B)Cana of Galilee, and the (C)mother of Jesus was there;2and both Jesus and His (D)disciples were invited to the wedding.
3When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to Him, "They have no wine."
4And Jesus said to her, "(E)Woman, (F)what does that have to do with us? (G)My hour has not yet come."
5His (H)mother said to the servants, "Whatever He says to you, do it."
6Now there were six stone waterpots set there (I)for the Jewish custom of purification, containing twenty or thirty gallons each.
7Jesus said to them, "Fill the waterpots with water." So they filled them up to the brim.
8And He said to them, "Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter." So they took it to him.
9When the headwaiter tasted the water (J)which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom,
10and said to him, "Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people (K)have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now."
11This beginning of His (L)signs Jesus did in Cana of (M)Galilee, and manifested His (N)glory, and His disciples believed in Him.
If Jesus' abilities were granted by Allah, why would Allah permit him to perform such acts which would lead to people commiting 'satanic acts'. I fully submit that this is not Qur'anic text, but, it is still attributed to one of Allah's prophets, and, an example of wine being permitted at certain times (and not for excessive consumption)
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Peace brother
Allah did not say that Alcohol is forbidden anywhere in Al Qur'an. Forbidden foods and acts are specified. Without specification, such things cannot be forbidden (even if warned against), they can only be left to a person's free will to choose for themself.
you are clearly the one who cannot understand Qur'anic command not to come to prayer while drunk, but to wait till you understand what you say. For a Muslim to come to prayer drunk, then they must have consumed alcohol. If alcohol is forbidden (which it is not) then the command not to come to prayer while drunk would be redundant and irrelevent. Nothing in Al Qur'an is redundant or irrelevent.
You want to say that Quran allows "Satanic acts" .This is big blame on the Quran.
Quran declares Khamar /Gambling as Satanic ACTS and asks muslims to avoid it in the same verse.
In ohter verses there is clear instruction not to follow Satanic ways but I do not know why you are insisting in adopting "satanic ways".2168
(216 O people, eat of what is lawful and clean in the earth and do not follow the ways of Satan, *166 for he is your avowed enemy
2208
(220 O Believers, enter completely into Islam *226 and do not follow in" the footsteps of Satan, for he is your avowed enemy.
6142
(6142) And of the cattle (He has reared) some for burden, and some whose flesh you eat and whose skins and hair you use to spread the ground. *117 Eat of the sustenance Allah has provided you and do not follow in the footsteps of Satan, for surely he is your open enemy
2421
(2421) O Believers, do not follow in Satan's footsteps, for he will incite to indecency and wickedness any who will follow him. If Allah had not shown His Brace and mercy to you, none of you would have been able to cleanse yourself, *18 for it is Allah alone Who cleanses whom He wills, and Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing -
You want to say that Quran allows "Satanic acts" .This is big blame on the Quran.
Quran declares Khamar /Gambling as Satanic ACTS and asks muslims to avoid it in the same verse.
In ohter verses there is clear instruction not to follow Satanic ways but I do not know why you are insisting in adopting "satanic ways".Peace brother.
Does Al Qur'an state that a Muslim should not come to prayer while intoxicated, but to wait until they understand what they say? Yes or No.
Does Al Qur'an specifically state that alcohol/intoxicants are forbidden, as it specifically states that flesh of swine is forbidden? Yes or No.
Peace
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Peace,
Al-Quran is supposed to be a guideline for mankind during all times and therefore no one can say that the verse of not coming to salat while intoxicated is for earlier rules as I have seen comment from others sometimes when this is mentioned.
That verse is in Quran and should be taken into account as everything else.
Maria
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Peace brother.
Does Al Qur'an state that a Muslim should not come to prayer while intoxicated, but to wait until they understand what they say? Yes or No.
Does Al Qur'an specifically state that alcohol/intoxicants are forbidden, as it specifically states that flesh of swine is forbidden? Yes or No.
Peace
yes Quran does say that if you have comitted one sin (sukaaraa) then do not commit another one i.e (saying prayers in the that state).So simple.
If someone uses heroin (one crime) and under this state if drives another crime.But you have not answere my Question
Can Quran allow or permit "satanic actions'?? -
Peace all and welcome, RaseemNaqaash,
I think this thread has turned off-topic, but I thought since everybody is expressing their views... hey, then why not jump in with mine?
Al-Khamr, the word translated as "intoxicants", basically has three instances of its usage in the Book.
FREE MINDS
590 - O you who believe, intoxicants (Al-Khamr), and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tools of affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid them so that you may be successful.591 - The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants (Al-Khamr) and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact-method. Will you not desist?
2219 - They ask you about intoxicants (Al-Khamr) and gambling. Say "In them is great harm, and a benefit for mankind; but their harm is greater than their benefit." And they ask you how much are they to give, Say "The excess." It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.
How I see these verse is an advice, but not just any advice. An advice from the Lord Himself.
590 - "... avoid them so you may be successful."
591 - "... Will you not desist?"
First the advice by Him, our Lord (590), then a rhetorical question (591). We all know well what importance a rhetorical question has in the Quran. e.g. 456. Then, a question by people about why should we desist and an answer in the form of 2219.
That is where it gets its importance for me. All other things that are forbidden are clearly forbidden for the believers. Ever wonder about those "minor" sins that aren't explicitly forbidden? Could they be a test in them for the believers? No test in the actions clearly forbidden, because carrying on those action is an act of a disbeliever. But here is a test for the believer. Will you, the believer, heed an advice from, none other than, your Lord and desist accordingly? Or will you say it is just an advice, it is our choice/free will whether we take it or not? We hear and we obey or we hear and we disobey, eh? Reminds of how when our parents advise us about something and we don't listen to them thinking that it's our life, however we see fit to live it and the scenario usually ends with a "I told you so" punchline. Anyway...
It was amusing when you said that we are only told not to come near prayer when you are drunk because that is exactly what 591 says. Think about it this way. Let's say you are drinking and lo! it is time for prayer, specific times for which have been enjoined on us.... oh, but you can't pray because you are drunk. Ironic, really. This situation wouldn't have arisen if you weren't drinking in the first place.
443 - O you who believe, do not come near the contact-method while you are intoxicated (sukara), until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless travelling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water then you shall make ablution with clean soil by wiping your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.
About how the word "sukara" is traditionally translated, I am not too sure of. One would think that if Al-Khamr means an intoxicant, then the arabic word for intoxication would have come from the same root. IMO, I think the words that follow after "sukara" help in knowing the meaning of the word, "...until you know what you are saying". Of the various meanings attributed to the root of sukara, i.e., Siin-Kaf-Ra, IMO "A state of confusion" appears more appropriate considering the context. Can such a state only be brought about by drunkardness? No, because there are other causes of a state of confusion, not just drunkardness, like stress from proccupation with personal problems, sleep depravation (for other causes http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_confusion) etc. Will drunkardness be part of the possible scenarios causing such a state? Not if believers desist from drinking. Will the verse become redundant if believers do/can not drink? From the answers to the questions before, of course not.
My two cents, anyway. No intent to offend, nor to impose my views on anyone here.
Salam all
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yes Quran does say that if you have comitted one sin (sukaaraa) then do not commit another one i.e (saying prayers in the that state).So simple.
If someone uses heroin (one crime) and under this state if drives another crime.But you have not answere my Question
Can Quran allow or permit "satanic actions'??Peace,
Satanic acting should be avoided of course because it can cause big damage. But the big question is, are always alcohol cause damage and satanic behaviour? No, i don't think so. If you can control your drinking then it's not damaging you and others.
Quran must point out the worst things that can happen, because it's a fact that alcohol kills many people who cannot control their intake and who maybe also have a violent kind of acting even without alcohol and then it's getting worse while drinking.
Smoking cigarettes also causes many deaths every year but yet many muslims are smoking.
People always play with their health and therefore Quran will help us and guide us to stay away from things that can harm us.
But to say that people will act like satan because they drink a single glass of wine and/ or smoke a cigarette is to get too far ahead with your assumptions.
But if you feel this is your way of handle it, please do so.
Maria
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Peace,
Satanic acting should be avoided of course because it can cause big damage. But the big question is, are always alcohol cause damage and satanic behaviour? No, i don't think so. If you can control your drinking then it's not damaging you and others.
For me there is no question of benefit or that of damage in any eatable or drinkable.For me and for that matter for any muslim it is sufficient that Al-Quran orders "Avoid it".
That is all.
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For me there is no question of benefit or that of damage in any eatable or drinkable.For me and for that matter for any muslim it is sufficient that Al-Quran orders "Avoid it".
That is all.
Peace,
Aha, so you mean that you follow blindly Quran?
have you read 1736 ?
I'm consider a whole deal what I'm eating and drinking and how it benefits my body and or damage it. it's important to have a balanced diet.
Maria
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Peace,
Aha, so you mean that you follow blindly Quran?
have you read 1736 ?
I'm consider a whole deal what I'm eating and drinking and how it benefits my body and or damage it. it's important to have a balanced diet.
Maria
What about Pork ,that will provide you high protein diet.
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Salaam
5338 That no laden one shall bear another's load
53 39 And that man hath only that for which he maketh effort
5340 And that his effort will be seen.
peaceThese are also Qurani Ayaat
2231
Do not play with Allah's Commandments6119
(6119) And how is it that you do not eat of that over which Allah's name has been pronounced even though He has clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden you unless you are constrained to it? *85 Many indeed say misleading things without knowledge, driven merely by their lowly desires. But your Lord knows well the transgressors,
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yes Quran does say that if you have comitted one sin (sukaaraa) then do not commit another one i.e (saying prayers in the that state).So simple.
If someone uses heroin (one crime) and under this state if drives another crime.But you have not answere my Question
Can Quran allow or permit "satanic actions'??Peace, brother. You have not answered the questions. Try again, and this time, try and answer the question asked with a yes or no answer.
Q.1 Does Al Qur'an state that a Muslim should not come to prayer while intoxicated, but to wait until they understand what they say? Yes or No.
Q.2 Does Al Qur'an specifically state that alcohol/intoxicants are forbidden, as it specifically states that flesh of swine is forbidden? Yes or No.
Those are easy enough questions to answer.
Peace
Peace all and welcome, RaseemNaqaash,
Peace and greetings.
It was amusing when you said that we are only told not to come near prayer when you are drunk because that is exactly what 591 says. Think about it this way. Let's say you are drinking and lo! it is time for prayer, specific times for which have been enjoined on us.... oh, but you can't pray because you are drunk. Ironic, really. This situation wouldn't have arisen if you weren't drinking in the first place.
Indeed, the situation would not have arisen if one was not drinking in the first place. If alcohol was forbidden (and specifically listed as such) then a Muslim would not drink in the first place, so could never come to prayer while drunk. But. The very fact that that passage exists, shows that Allah knows that people can and will consume alcohol, so orders them not to pray while drunk, but to wait until they can understand what they are saying. If alcohol was utterly forbidden (it would be named thusly) the passage would be redundant, and, there is nothing redundant in Al Qur'an.
Peace
What about Pork ,that will provide you high protein diet.
rotfl rotfl rotfl
Peace, brother. Pork may well provide a high protein diet, but, it is specifically named as forbidden. (unless eaten out of starvation or force-feeding against one's will, in which case there is no desire, and one is forgiven)
Let's try a different example. Are you married, brother? If so, do you find your wife's mother or sister attractive? (Even if you do not, just allow me the example) Well, they are both forbidden to you, and specifically named as forbidden to you. Do you understand the example? If something is utterly forbidden, it is specifically named and stated as utterly forbidden.
These are also Qurani Ayaat
2231
Do not play with Allah's Commandments6119
(6119) And how is it that you do not eat of that over which Allah's name has been pronounced even though He has clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden you unless you are constrained to it? *85 Many indeed say misleading things without knowledge, driven merely by their lowly desires. But your Lord knows well the transgressors,
Good advice, brother. Advice you should heed. No-one here but you, is playing with Allah's commandments. There is no commandment specifically naming and forbidding alcohol. Your avoidance of that question will not change it's validity. To use the passage you quoted, with a shift in emphasis.
6119
(6119) And how is it that you do not eat of that over which Allah's name has been pronounced even though He has clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden you unless you are constrained to it? *85 Many indeed say misleading things without knowledge, driven merely by their lowly desires. But your Lord knows well the transgressors.Once more, brother, Allah has clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden. Alcohol is not 'clearly spelled out' as forbidden. Once more, if such text that specifically names and then forbids alcohol exists in Al Qur'an, then produce it.
Flesh of swine is forbidden. Eating an animal which was strangled is forbidden. Fornication with your mother in law or sister in law is forbidden. Do you not understand the logic here, brother? These things which are forbidden, are specifically named as such. Alcohol is warned against. I do not deny that. I never have. It is not, however, specifically named as forbidden, it is only warned against, and the decision to consume it, lies solely with the individual and their free will. Al Qur'an features commandment not to pray while drunk but to wait until you understand what you say. Stop ignoring the existence of this commandment, simply because it deflates your entire argument.Peace
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Indeed, the situation would not have arisen if one was not drinking in the first place. If alcohol was forbidden (and specifically listed as such) then a Muslim would not drink in the first place, so could never come to prayer while drunk. But. The very fact that that passage exists, shows that Allah knows that people can and will consume alcohol, so orders them not to pray while drunk, but to wait until they can understand what they are saying. If alcohol was utterly forbidden (it would be named thusly) the passage would be redundant, and, there is nothing redundant in Al Qur'an.
Umm... Any thoughts on this?
Al-Khamr, the word translated as "intoxicants", basically has three instances of its usage in the Book.
FREE MINDS
590 - O you who believe, intoxicants (Al-Khamr), and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tools of affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid them so that you may be successful.591 - The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants (Al-Khamr) and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact-method. Will you not desist?
2219 - They ask you about intoxicants (Al-Khamr) and gambling. Say "In them is great harm, and a benefit for mankind; but their harm is greater than their benefit." And they ask you how much are they to give, Say "The excess." It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.
How I see these verse is an advice, but not just any advice. An advice from the Lord Himself.
590 - "... avoid them so you may be successful."
591 - "... Will you not desist?"
First the advice by Him, our Lord (590), then a rhetorical question (591). We all know well what importance a rhetorical question has in the Quran. e.g. 456. Then, a question by people about why should we desist and an answer in the form of 2219.
That is where it gets its importance for me. All other things that are forbidden are clearly forbidden for the believers. Ever wonder about those "minor" sins that aren't explicitly forbidden? Could they be a test in them for the believers? No test in the actions clearly forbidden, because carrying on those action is an act of a disbeliever. But here is a test for the believer. Will you, the believer, heed an advice from, none other than, your Lord and desist accordingly? Or will you say it is just an advice, it is our choice/free will whether we take it or not? We hear and we obey or we hear and we disobey, eh? Reminds of how when our parents advise us about something and we don't listen to them thinking that it's our life, however we see fit to live it and the scenario usually ends with a "I told you so" punchline. Anyway...
443 - O you who believe, do not come near the contact-method while you are intoxicated (sukara), until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless travelling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water then you shall make ablution with clean soil by wiping your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.
About how the word "sukara" is traditionally translated, I am not too sure of. One would think that if Al-Khamr means an intoxicant, then the arabic word for intoxication would have come from the same root. IMO, I think the words that follow after "sukara" help in knowing the meaning of the word, "...until you know what you are saying". Of the various meanings attributed to the root of sukara, i.e., Siin-Kaf-Ra, IMO "A state of confusion" appears more appropriate considering the context. Can such a state only be brought about by drunkardness? No, because there are other causes of a state of confusion, not just drunkardness, like stress from proccupation with personal problems, sleep depravation (for other causes http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_confusion) etc. Will drunkardness be part of the possible scenarios causing such a state? Not if believers desist from drinking. Will the verse become redundant if believers do/can not drink? From the answers to the questions before, of course not.
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These are also Qurani Ayaat
2231
Do not play with Allah's Commandments6119
(6119) And how is it that you do not eat of that over which Allah's name has been pronounced even though He has clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden you unless you are constrained to it? *85 Many indeed say misleading things without knowledge, driven merely by their lowly desires. But your Lord knows well the transgressors,
Salaam
of course I submit to the above along with all the rest of the Quran. peace -
Salaam
of course I submit to the above along with all the rest of the Quran. peaceThen what is you opinion who think that "Quran /Allah permits/allows 'satanic acts'"??
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Umm... Any thoughts on this?
Peace
Indeed. It is one person's interperetation of Qur'anic text. I see no reason why I should change my opinion, simply because someone else disagrees with my opinion.
With regard the final paragraph, I disagree with the opinion that the passage would not be redundant if Muslims cannot/do not consume intoxicants. If Muslims cannot consume intoxicants (and if so, please quote precicely where they are named as forbidden, in the same way that flesh of swine and fornication with one's mother in law are specifically named and forbidden) then there would not need for the passage, and it