Msjid Al Haraam
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brother, doesn't "haram" in this context mean something closer to "pure" or "sanctified" as opposed to "off-limits"?
i voted "house of God". which can have a literal as well as figurative meaning. we are not always near to the physical house of God's worship, but capacity to worship God is with us wherever we are.
Br. you need to read sura nine ayah's 1-28, to see ;
the Mushriks where breaking their pledges, killing - doing mischievous things and if it happened in any nation the good people will no doubt take up arms and stop the Mushriks from doing such things- thus try and keep them at bay with threat if need be.
Life, people are precious things and it was and is Haram to attack them without cause and the law is there to keep the criminals at bay- i think.
God Bless All.
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I voted 'other', as I understand it to mean God's laws -- not the laws of the land.
Of course when considering the laws in the quran, but how about nations where the quran isn't the norm, where they follow but the laws of the land- does God play a part in the creation of those laws or not?
hmm
God Bless All.
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I understand what you're driving at, however I have to stand on my opinion - as the laws of the land are not "haram / inviolable", they're just the laws of the land and can easily be transgressed by anyone at anytime without necessarily the transgressor suffering the repercussions of breaking the law. How many times have you speeded in your car and not gotten caught????
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I understand what you're driving at, however I have to stand on my opinion - as the laws of the land are not "haram / inviolable", they're just the laws of the land and can easily be transgressed by anyone at anytime without necessarily the transgressor suffering the repercussions of breaking the law. How many times have you speeded in your car and not gotten caught????
God's law is not "inviolable", well, physics aside. Quranic law, commandments, etc, are not inviolable. And haram =/= inviolable ONLY.
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You've mis-seen and then misinterpreted what I wrote. I wrote 'God's law'. I didn't write, nor did I mean 'Qur'anic law'. There's a big difference.
- I didn't write that haram ONLY means inviolable. It is one meaning, and a valid meaning that is by no means obscure and is just as valid as the other meanings.
I still stand by what understand and what I've written.
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Br. Ilisa,
God's laws
Which Gods Law is that which doesn't need safe guarding by humans? Is it the laws of nature or something?
Thanks.
Salaams.
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Br. Ilisa,
Which Gods Law is that which doesn't need safe guarding by humans? Is it the laws of nature or something?
Thanks.
Salaams.
Good point. There is no way to "turn pagans from al-masjid al-haram" if the latter is denoted to mean God's inviolable law, because well, pagans exist.
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OPF -First of all, what is your definition of 'pagan'? A person who......?
And simple - to my understanding, God's laws = the laws of 'nature' or of 'physics', and in the end are laws we must respect or suffer sure and often severe consequences, by this are then 'inviolable' in an ultimate sense. There are people who don't recognize this fact - either out of ignorance or arrogance, so do not act by those laws, and so, are the losers by meeting their fate at the end for having believe that they could violate them.
Does it make sense?
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OPF -First of all, what is your definition of 'pagan'? A person who......?
And simple - to my understanding, God's laws = the laws of 'nature' or of 'physics', and in the end are laws we must respect or suffer sure and often severe consequences, by this are then 'inviolable' in an ultimate sense. There are people who don't recognize this fact - either out of ignorance or arrogance, so do not act by those laws, and so, are the losers by meeting their fate at the end for having believe that they could violate them.
Does it make sense?
Salaams Br. Ilisa,
Do not kill, Do not steal........
or the Ten Commandments.
And i think all of them can be violated.
Are These Gods Laws?
Thanks.
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Salaams simple,
(BTW I'm 'Sr'
Those are proscriptions from God for those who know, read, and understand the Qur'an; and, indeed, are easily violable, -- so quite different from 'msjd al haram', eh? People who've never read a 'holy book' can know the 'inviolable laws' through experience and observation -- not true of the ones written in the Qur'an, necessarily.
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Salaams simple,
(BTW I'm 'Sr'
Those are proscriptions from God for those who know, read, and understand the Qur'an; and, indeed, are easily violable, -- so quite different from 'msjd al haram', eh? People who've never read a 'holy book' can know the 'inviolable laws' through experience and observation -- not true of the ones written in the Qur'an, necessarily.
I thought you accepted that haram does not 100% mean "inviolable"? You don't see people physically restrained from eating pork do you?
not true of the ones written in the Qur'an, necessarily.
Are you really so sure of that?
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OPF,
You seem to keep missing my point.
The proscriptions in the Qur'an are NOT what I am referring to. Eating or not eating pork isn't what I'd consider an inviolable law.
Do you understand the difference between 'violable' and 'inviolable'??
violable => Capable of being violated, broken, or injured.
inviolable => Not violable; not susceptible of violence, or of being profaned or corrupted; incapable of being injured; not to be infringed or dishonoured.
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OPF,
You seem to keep missing my point.
The proscriptions in the Qur'an are NOT what I am referring to. Eating or not eating pork isn't what I'd consider an inviolable law.
Do you understand the difference between 'violable' and 'inviolable'??
violable => Capable of being violated, broken, or injured.
inviolable => Not violable; not susceptible of violence, or of being profaned or corrupted; incapable of being injured; not to be infringed or dishonoured.
Sr. Ilisa,
could you elaborate on any laws of the quran which may be inviolable.
Thanks.
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I voted 'other', as I understand it to mean God's laws -- not the laws of the land.
And don't be frustrated- I am not accusing you of anything but just trying to understand this from your perspective.
God Bless.
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OPF,
You seem to keep missing my point.
The proscriptions in the Qur'an are NOT what I am referring to. Eating or not eating pork isn't what I'd consider an inviolable law.
Do you understand the difference between 'violable' and 'inviolable'??
violable => Capable of being violated, broken, or injured.
inviolable => Not violable; not susceptible of violence, or of being profaned or corrupted; incapable of being injured; not to be infringed or dishonoured.
Right.
God's laws = INVIOLABLE. That is to say, the laws of this world, are INVIOLABLE.
And God's laws in the quran are VIOLABLE. But, BOTH these laws, are partially in the quran and the "VIOLABLE" laws are fully in.
So where is the distinction if not in the "VIOLABLE" and "INVIOLABLE"?
So what then, is your al-masjid al-haram? Turn your face to al-masjid al-haram is exactly that. You cannot restrict the term to either of its subsets. And that, is my point. Maybe I misread your original post. Either way, I'm in a good mood today sun
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Greetings,
simple -- No need for apologies, 'accused' was not what I felt, 'consistently misunderstood leading to a sense of frustration' is. I got that you were wanting to understand, but also got that somehow, I wasn't getting through.
OPF -- 'my' 'masjid alharam' =
The seven INVIOLABLE laws in place over the universal micro and macrocosms as we know it
I. THE PRINCIPLE OF MENTALISM
?The All ('God' is MIND; The Universe is Mental.?II. THE PRINCIPLE OF CORRESPONDENCE
?As above, so below; as below, so above.?III. THE PRINCIPLE OF VIBRATION
?Nothing rests; everything moves; everything vibrates.?IV. THE PRINCIPLE OF POLARITY
?Everything is Dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled.?V. THE PRINCIPLE OF RHYTHM
?Everything flows, out and in; everything has its tides; all things rise and fall; the pendulum swing manifests in everything; the measure of the swing to the right is the measure of the swing to the left; rhythm compensates.?VI. THE PRINCIPLE OF CAUSE AND EFFECT
?Every cause has its Effect; every Effect has its Cause; everything happens according to Law; Chance is but a name for Law not recognized; there are many planes of causation, but nothing escapes the Law.?VII. THE PRINCIPLE OF GENDER
?Gender is in everything; everything has its Masculine and Feminine Principles?
The VIOLABLE laws as outlined in the Qur'an (once again) are proscriptions and prescriptions for those who read, learn and understand the Qur'an after the time that it was revealed to mankind.
The Qur'an has NOT been with mankind since the beginning of time. The seven INVIOLABLE laws outlined above HAVE.
I rest my case.
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Salaams Sr Ilisa,
Does the quran specifically state these as the definition of Masjid Al Haram?
Thanks Sr.