POLYGAMY NOT THERE IN QURAN?
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Dear AQO
Now coming to the word NKH.
Since Quran has used this word with ain kalima ie. kaaf is maksoor,so it will take it "hamza maksoor " at the beginning.It will become "Inkih"
. 1- ( 㷬- ( ث
3- ( ث
4- ( ر
5- ( ثFor form IVYou are bringing examples from the singular conjugation whereas we are discussing a verb conjugated to the plural, yet you are right that it is inkih not ankih (there is a kasra under the alif (first letter), but wrong about the existence of a hamza I can't see any hamza in your examples.
In the plural conjugation which we are disacussing, there's no difference in the imperative between both forms other than the hamza. If you have any constructive criticism to shed further light on the meaning of this verb in chapter 4, please bring it; otherwise I think we are wasting time.Imperative comes on the scale of "Af3il" When NKH will go into IV it will become "ankaha" (past) and its imperative will be "ankih" (single masculine) and "ankihoo" (PLURAL MASCULINE)
Since its first hamza is not "hamazatul wasal"so it will retain both writing and reading.
So as in your second aya; (wa-ankihoo)
This description is not very detailed.But it does serve the purpose of this discussion.
Best of luckBut earlier you said
Where did you get that
- imperitive of "nakaha" is "ankih"
-IV form is "unkaha"
{Is this some new "grammar" written by you?}
Now I understand why you are confused (or trying to confuse people). While discussing this verb, I kept the "u" for the alif with hamza (as pronounced in up; utter) and the "a" for the alif with hamzat wasl (as in apple)
(imperative of the verb nakaha and is pronounced fankihuu)
(imperative of the verb unkaha and is pronounced fa unkihuu)And you know that very well.
- imperitive of "nakaha" is "ankih"
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Dear AQO
You are bringing examples from the singular conjugation whereas we are discussing a verb conjugated to the plural, yet you are right that it is inkih not ankih (there is a kasra under the alif (first letter), but wrong about the existence of a hamza I can't see any hamza in your examples.
In the plural conjugation which we are disacussing, there's no difference in the imperative between both forms other than the hamza. If you have any constructive criticism to shed further light on the meaning of this verb in chapter 4, please bring it; otherwise I think we are wasting time.But earlier you saidNow I understand why you are confused (or trying to confuse people). While discussing this verb, I kept the "u" for the alif with hamza (as pronounced in up; utter) and the "a" for the alif with hamzat wasl (as in apple)And you know that very well.Dear Samia
In this post and previous post of you it is obvious ,you do not know what do alif and hamza mean ??
May I have some input from you regarding them ?In transliteration "u" is used for "zamma" "a" is used for "fatah" i is used for "kasra".
You comitted the same blunder in the following post.Salaam Farida
How do you know that no action was taken? Just because not everyone post their warning on a thread does not necessarily mean they did not get one. You of all should know better. I would also appreciate if your reactions to warnings for violation of rule 3 be consitent.
Back to the thread.
I would not be able to quote. There have been too many posts in the last day or two while I was not being active. The point that stuck to my memory was the usage of the verb "yankah" As I mentioned before, Arabic does not have this verb "marry off", but "marry to". In the qur'aan, a female is made to marry the male by the usage of the verb yunkih the male is the first object and the female is the second object. The problem arises when the verb is used in the imperative "ankih". There will be no difference between "yankah" and "yunkih". They will both be "ankih". So, as a rule, when the first direct object is male, it will be "marry to the male", and if the first object is female, the verb will be just "marry". (I know this will be confusing, but please remember that I am trying to explain a completely different grammar in English, so do not expect mirrored expressions)
28 27 I want to marry one of my two daughters to you (un unkihaka ihdaa ibnatayya), where the "ka" is the suffixed pronoun, first direct object , referring to Moses.
243 "and the adulteress no one marries her except an adulterer (...laa yankihuha marry her)", here it does not say laa tankihu, because a female does not "tankih".We can safely say that, when the verb is followed by masculine or mixed gender, this will be "marry to", and if it is followed by a feminine it will be "marry".
2432 ayaamaa and saaliheen are not feminine. They are either masculine or mixed gender. Therefore, it is either marry to the single and righteous men, or marry and marry to the single and righteous people.I have not touched any verb where the vocalization decides its nature.
You said
There will be no difference between "yankah" and "yunkih". They will both be "ankih"
There is a lot of difference between meanings and then of course in their imperatives;
Yankah = he marries
Yunkih = he marries offHere again you do not know the imperative of
Imperfect "yankah" is "inkah" not "ankih" and that of "yunkih "is "ankih"You said
here it does not say laa tankihu, because a female does not "tankih".
Again wrong information Look at this Qurani Aya
(230)
(2230) -
Since Quran has used this word with ain kalima ie. kaaf is maksoor,so it will take it "hamza maksoor " at the beginning.It will become "Inkih"
Here again you do not know the imperative of
Imperfect "yankah" is "inkah" not "ankih" and that of "yunkih "is "ankih"Make up your mind Is it "inkah" or "inkih"?
In transliteration "u" is used for "zamma" "a" is used for "fatah" i is used for "kasra".
You comitted the same blunder in the following post.Official/academic transliteration has different symbols which are no available on the software used by this forum (e.g hamza and the sign for hamzat wasl). I was not concerned about how to transliterate in as much as how to differentiate between two diferent words when the tools I have do not give me much choice. I left "unkih/u" for form IV and ankih/u for fom I. The point is I made myself understood to my interlocutor. If you were concerened then, you could have asked at that time and we might have come to a mutual choice. But to come now just to criticize when no problem resulted from my invented transliteration is just an attempt to discredit not to construct
This takes us back to my previous question and your reply to it? I asked How do you say "Daddy, marry your daughter!" in Arabic? You answered "Unkih ibnatak!" So you do have the pattern NKH (imperative) + nisaa (as the Direct Object). Are you going back on your reply?
Yes, you are right. Even the dictionary puts it as you say. I did not even notice I went back in my words.
But what I see in the language of the qur'aan is a different usage In verse 243, the qur'aan says "The adulterer yankihu but an adulteress and the adulteress yankihuha but an adulterer", where it is clear that the qur'aan does not use "tankih" for a woman
Which brings me to your last point
"You say" here it does not say laa tankihu, because a female does not "tankih".
Again wrong information Look at this Qurani Aya
(230)
(2230)It's up to you to respect the "tashkeel" more than the usage of the word as proven from verse 243 above in quote. Verse 2230 could have simply been wrongly vocalized instead of "tunkaha" in the passive, it is written "tankiha" in the active. After all, the meaning is not changed.
From all your post so far on this thread, I find this last point the only constructive one. So I hope you excuse me if I do not respond to anymore posts from you if it's about technicalities and not about meaning/information. If the way I explain something twisted the meaning or sent wrong information, I do not shy from apologizing and correcting my error. After all, I am not error free as you wrongly think I think of myself and hence this following of me by you from thread to thread in minute details that do not benefit anyone, and always not on the spot, but after days and weeks, which really consumes my time to return back and look at the context of my posts. Move on and start to contribute instead of waiting for a prey to attack. -
I see the imperative form of nakaha in 2432, which is ?nkihuu
Wa ?nkihuu?l ayaama
Marry off the singleThis hamza; that is, the ? is formed by putting the hyphen-like diacritical sign above the alif. This hamza is not wasl; so it is not dropped wa ?nkihuu.
I see the the imperative from of ankaha in 43, which is inkihuu
Fankihuu ma taaba lakum mine?n nisaai
Marry the women who allow youThis hamza is formed by putting the hyphen-like diacritical sign below the alif. However, it is dropped when inkihuu is linked to fa like in An-Nisaa 3 fankihuu.
According to Al-Quran only, fa has never been used to convert intransitive verbs into transitive ones. If yaseen claims it has, he should provide some evidence/proof.
Dear Al-Quran only,
Yaseen does not look at the question from the viewpoint of grammar as Samia and you seem to do. He looks at it from the viewpoint of context. Isn?t it obvious from his argument that THE CONTEXT WILL CARRY THE INTENDED MEANING? So his proof is the context of 43.
I wish you saved yourselves from being obsessed with grammar for a moment and paid attention to the questions I asked. The moment you did that, you would see the contradictions fankihuu causes in 43 and object to it.
Take only this one for example
In 46 God orders you to hand over the possessions of the orphans as soon as they reach their physical and mental maturity. You have to obey God as a sincere Muslim. And you can do that only if you marry off the orphan women and send them away to their new homes .
You either obey God or allow polygyny. You can not do both and be a sincere Muslim.
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
Dear Al-Quran only,
I wish you saved yourselves from being obsessed with grammar for a moment and paid attention to the questions I asked. The moment you did that, you would see the contradictions fankihuu causes in 43 and object to it.Take only this one for example
In 46 God orders you to hand over the possessions of the orphans as soon as they reach their physical and mental maturity. You have to obey God as a sincere Muslim. And you can do that only if you marry off the orphan women and send them away to their new homes .
You either obey God or allow polygyny. You can not do both and be a sincere Muslim.
Peace,
Hasan AkcayAQO is not obsessed with grammar but with finding faults with people and challenging them without significant contribution from his part, that's why he digs in trivials and details, and points that have no bearing on understanding verses. AQO has been around the forum for quite a time, changing his screen name quite often but not his ways.
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And what's this "decent" solution, for an undecent situation, I wonder? To legalize this unlawful relationship between A and C?
What if it was B who met a "highly intelligent and attractive" colleague and fell in love with him? Anyway to work out a "decent" solution?If it was made crystal clear, to men and women alike, that married men are not available, such absurd situations calling for "unfair" solutions would not arise.
Peace,
very good point sis Samia.
yes, if all would respect people who was married then no situation like this would occur.
I guess in The Bible one of the 10 commandments of Moses is To not have lust for your fellows wives.
Maria
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If it was made crystal clear, to men and women alike, that married men are not available, such absurd situations calling for "unfair" solutions would not arise.
Married people have already been married with. Dry and cut like mathematics? Well, the truth is dry and cut. It is final. Once more married people belong to their spouses. This is God's truth. Now keep this in mind and read An-Noor 32
Wa ?nkihu'l ayaama
And marry off the singleDoes this divine order allow you to marry off the married, who belong to their spouses? This verse is the same in structure and connotations as Al-Jumu'a 9
Hasten to the remembrance of God (629)
Marry off the single (2432)Does 629 allow you to hasten to the remembrance of other Gods? If it does, 2432 will allow you to marry off the married.
Plus, even the people who claim that polygyny is allowed accept that it is such an unbearable wrong done to co-wives that it has to be given up. That is why in 43, according to them, God says "If you fear to be unjust when you marry two women and three women and four women, marry only one."
Unjust = torturing
Is it becoming to God to allow torture under this pretext of this and that, to a God who in 1044 announces that God does not do least wrong to men; it is men who wrong themselves?
No, this is not Islam because we are not Muslim.
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
Salaam,
Samia, I have tried to find one of the posts where you went into detail explaining that women were never the subject of n-k-h-, but the object. Is that right? By now I think I am numbed. Anyway, please look at 2.232 where it says
an yankihna azwajahunna
I am not sure how it may matter in the question of poligamy, but since it has been dealt with in this thread, I would like your input and that of any other interested.
Salaam
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Salaam,
Samia, I have tried to find one of the posts where you went into detail explaining that women were never the subject of n-k-h-, but the object. Is that right? By now I think I am numbed. Anyway, please look at 2.232 where it says
an yankihna azwajahunna
I am not sure how it may matter in the question of poligamy, but since it has been dealt with in this thread, I would like your input and that of any other interested.
Salaam
Salaam huruf
I depended on my belief that women are the object of NKH on verse 243 (I might be wrong about the verse number. I do not have my Book with me. It could be verse 3 or 4) where it says ..."The adulterer yankihu but a mushrika and the adulteress "yankihua" but a mushrik" instead of "tankihu". As for the verse you cite, it could have simply been wrongly vocalized instead of "tunkaha" in the passive, it is written "tankiha" in the active. After all, the meaning is not changed.
Of course I might be wrong if you can find a verse where changing the active into passive will not work. Then we may have to wonder why verse 243 did not use the verb with the female as its subject (i.e tankihu).
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I don't know whether youhave the Qur'an with you now, but read the whole aya.
"da la ta3dulwhunna an yankihna azwayahunna"
That for one thing. For another, that is two vowels and not just one, and therefore, I think, much harder to change or mistake. And then if it is the Arabic usage always to have the man yankih, I can understand that any yankihna in the revelation would have turned out to be yunkahna by mistake when copied because of habit. However I find it very unlikely that if it is not the usual usage in Arabic that someone would have made two mistakes to put it into "unusual" Arabic, and again, the whole formulation reolves about not keeping the women from doing something, and therefore the passive would be much less suited that the active.
Salaam
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I don't know whether youhave the Qur'an with you now, but read the whole aya.
"da la ta3dulwhunna an yankihna azwayahunna"
That for one thing. For another, that is two vowels and not just one, and therefore, I think, much harder to change or mistake. And then if it is the Arabic usage always to have the man yankih, I can understand that any yankihna in the revelation would have turned out to be yunkahna by mistake when copied because of habit. However I find it very unlikely that if it is not the usual usage in Arabic that someone would have made two mistakes to put it into "unusual" Arabic, and again, the whole formulation reolves about not keeping the women from doing something, and therefore the passive would be much less suited that the active.
Salaam
It's not three or four vowels. It is passive verb made active. There are some verbs which are disputed before whether they are active or passive.
Also, as I said, verse 243 puts it very explicitly that even a zania is (yankihuha) and not (tankih).
As for females not (yankihna), they do not (yutalliqna divorce) either. -
Yes, I am aware that the vocalisation, the two vowels, are for either a passive or an active.
As to 34.3 I do not see why that must necessarily be a grammatical rather than an stilistical statement, or may be it has some other reason to put it that way and it might be interesting to look at it from that point of view. The point is that in 2.232 it says yankihna, which is what I can see and verify, so why should I think that it didn't want to say exactly that? And surely it is not shocking, since nobady seems to have found anything wrong with there being a yankihna and seems more appropriate also within the aya.
Salaam
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Yes, I am aware that the vocalisation, the two vowels, are for either a passive or an active.
As to 34.3 I do not see why that must necessarily be a grammatical rather than an stilistical statement, or may be it has some other reason to put it that way and it might be interesting to look at it from that point of view. The point is that in 2.232 it says yankihna, which is what I can see and verify, so why should I think that it didn't want to say exactly that? And surely it is not shocking, since nobady seems to have found anything wrong with there being a yankihna and seems more appropriate also within the aya.
Salaam
I never said it was inappropriate or wrong
Salaam huruf
As for the verse you cite, it could have simply been wrongly vocalized instead of "tunkaha" in the passive, it is written "tankiha" in the active. After all, the meaning is not changed.
The whole thing might be a linguistic characteristic of that very verb, just lik the verb (yutal-liq to divorce). We have a male (yutalliq) but not for a female. It does not mean that women do not "divorce" men according to the qur'aan.
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I have a question for IMQ You have stated in a previous post that
po?lyg?a?my (p-lg-m)
- The condition or practice of having more than one spouse at one time. Also called plural marriage.
po?lyg?y?ny (p-lj-n)
- The condition or practice of having more than one wife at one time.
POLYGYNY IS CLEARLY IN AL QURAN, WHILE "POLYGAMY" DOES NOT EXIST.
My question According to the Quran, what is the difference between a "spouse" and a "wife"? Please cite the corresponding ayats to support your understanding.
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Well...it has been a few days since I posted my question to IMO...I will assume that he is on vacation from the forum for a bit...
Anyway...I have been looking at two words in the Quran..."ujr" and "nihlah". Clearly these are two different words used by Allah in His Book. As we all know, He doesnt forget or make mistakes.
My understanding is that "nikah" means tie/knot/contract. Depending on the context of the ayat, you understand what type of "contract" the parties are engaged in. My understanding is that "marry" or "marry off" is what nikah has come to mean now. This same situation is applicable to salah. Salah has come to mean "ritual prayer" however when you look at the root meaning, it means commitment, to follow closely, etc.
When I look at the ayats that refer to "marriage" in particular, they use the word "ujr" as an obligatory dowry. However, God is clear in His usage of words and "ujr" and in Sura 4 this word (ujr) is not used there for dowry. Instead the word is "nihlah". This same word form (nihlah) can be found in the Sura "The Bee".
Has anyone researched these two words and their usage in the Book?
Your comments regarding the above is appreciated.
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We can take this out of the Quraan altogether!
First off the Quraan only put this there to regulate the number of Women we may marry who already have CHILDREN thus "For the Sake of the Orphans you may marry them their mothers 2 3 and 4" so this is regulation on women with KIDS already
Quraan does not regulate the number of Wives from Women without children!
Multipul Marriage is a Cultural thing, none of us can say it is Evil or it is Good, it depends on the society and culture we are from! Being of West Afrikan blood i know that it is common in West Afrikan communities to have 2 or more wives! so it is not oppression! Really it is the Fist wife who encourages the man to select a HELP MATE ie CO WIFE!
It is just as incorrect to enforce an cultural view such as monogamy on the Whole of the WOrld as has been done by the European-Christian world!!! so now Muslims are doning the same to look good in FEMISIT EYES? keep it real FAMILY
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We can take this out of the Quraan altogether!
First off the Quraan only put this there to regulate the number of Women we may marry who already have CHILDREN thus "For the Sake of the Orphans you may marry them their mothers 2 3 and 4" so this is regulation on women with KIDS already
Quraan does not regulate the number of Wives from Women without children!
Multipul Marriage is a Cultural thing, none of us can say it is Evil or it is Good, it depends on the society and culture we are from! Being of West Afrikan blood i know that it is common in West Afrikan communities to have 2 or more wives! so it is not oppression! Really it is the Fist wife who encourages the man to select a HELP MATE ie CO WIFE!
It is just as incorrect to enforce an cultural view such as monogamy on the Whole of the WOrld as has been done by the European-Christian world!!! so now Muslims are doning the same to look good in FEMISIT EYES? keep it real FAMILY
Why not polyandry?