What Edip Is Trying To Tell Us?

unknownuser

465
(465) But no, by your Lord, they cannot become true be-lievers until they seek your
arbitration in all matters on which they disagree among themselves, and then find not the least vexation in their hearts over what you have decided, and accept it in willing submission

WHO ARE IGNORANTS ? QURAN DECLARATION

267
(267) Then call to mind the other event when Moses said to his people, "Allah commands you to sacrifice a cow," they replied, "Do you mean to have a jest with us?" He answered, "I crave Allah's protection from behaving like ignorant people

Jack

Dear brother, you know nothing. Please read up on usool, fiqh, isnad, etc and after 20 years of study you may be able to hold an opinion. In the mean time let the blessed ulema (AS) dish these things out! Nobody gave you the authority to speak.

You can contact him by seeing him in your dreams. Honourable people only. Sometimes the shaitan comes but he can never come as the Holy Prophet (PBUH).

;D

Edip_Yuksel

The response to my statement regarding "federal secularism" demonstrated my silly expectation, that people would reflect on them; yet many responded with a knee-jerk reaction.

If God says "let them reject" or "you cannot force them to acknowledge", that is GOD'S LAW. In other words, providing an environment of "freedom to disbelief" or "freedom to be a kafir" is ISLAM. Let me give one more example. The Quran lists the shares of inheritance and instructs us to apply it AFTER the testator leaves a will. In other words, "the freedom not to follow the Quranic default rules of inheritance" is the Quranic law. Sunnies fabricated many hadith because of not using their critical thinking and they ignored the crucial word AFTER, over and over... Let me make it even clearer "Not imposing the rules of the Quran for muslims on non-muslims is the Quranic or Islamic law!" Please think and reflect on it before jumping on your keyboard.

Unfortunately, the minds of Muslims are so polluted by the teachings of Umayyad and Abbasid dynasties, when they think of Islam they dream of becoming "moral police" or dictators.

I have written articles on this in Turkish, but as it seems, I need to write another one in English, discussing the role of Muhammad as

A messenger of God, who delivered the Quran as a human mailman.
A submitter to God, who followed the Quran as a righteous man.
A federal-secular leader, who led a city-state populated with a religiously and ethnically diverse group of people, according to the secular constitution.
A muslim leader, who led the group of muslims in that city-state, according to the specific laws of the Quran.

Peace,
Edip

Pece,
Edip

adjwi

Peace,

The response to my statement regarding "federal secularism" demonstrated my silly expectation, that people would reflect on them; yet many responded with a knee-jerk reaction.

If God says "let them reject" or "you cannot force them to acknowledge", that is GOD'S LAW. In other words, providing an environment of "freedom to disbelief" or "freedom to be a kafir" is ISLAM. Let me give one more example. The Quran lists the shares of inheritance and instructs us to apply it AFTER the testator leaves a will. In other words, "the freedom not to follow the Quranic default rules of inheritance" is the Quranic law. Sunnies fabricated many hadith because of not using their critical thinking and they ignored the crucial word AFTER, over and over... Let me make it even clearer "Not imposing the rules of the Quran for muslims on non-muslims is the Quranic or Islamic law!" Please think and reflect on it before jumping on your keyboard.

Unfortunately, the minds of Muslims are so polluted by the teachings of Umayyad and Abbasid dynasties, when they think of Islam they dream of becoming "moral police" or dictators.

I have written articles on this in Turkish, but as it seems, I need to write another one in English, discussing the role of Muhammad as

A messenger of God, who delivered the Quran as a human mailman.
A submitter to God, who followed the Quran as a righteous man.
A federal-secular leader, who led a city-state populated with a religiously and ethnically diverse group of people, according to the secular constitution.
A muslim leader, who led the group of muslims in that city-state, according to the specific laws of the Quran.

Peace,
Edip

Pece,
Edip

I must say that I fail to see the knee in your reactions.

I read your order as being out of sequence. Muhammad would have acted as a muslim leader before what you describe as a federal-secular leader. The foundations of that leadership, is non-secular. Remove #1, #2 and #4 from your list and you can get a federal-secular system of law and order, but not Justice. My understanding is that central to islam is the presence of God, which is not needed in a federal-secular system.

Secular islam, yeah I thought of that before...

adjwi

unknownuser

The response to my statement regarding "federal secularism" demonstrated my silly expectation, that people would reflect on them; yet many responded with a knee-jerk reaction.

If God says "let them reject" or "you cannot force them to acknowledge", that is GOD'S LAW. In other words, providing an environment of "freedom to disbelief" or "freedom to be a kafir" is ISLAM. Let me give one more example. The Quran lists the shares of inheritance and instructs us to apply it AFTER the testator leaves a will. In other words, "the freedom not to follow the Quranic default rules of inheritance" is the Quranic law. Sunnies fabricated many hadith because of not using their critical thinking and they ignored the crucial word AFTER, over and over... Let me make it even clearer "Not imposing the rules of the Quran for muslims on non-muslims is the Quranic or Islamic law!" Please think and reflect on it before jumping on your keyboard.

Unfortunately, the minds of Muslims are so polluted by the teachings of Umayyad and Abbasid dynasties, when they think of Islam they dream of becoming "moral police" or dictators.

I have written articles on this in Turkish, but as it seems, I need to write another one in English, discussing the role of Muhammad as

A messenger of God, who delivered the Quran as a human mailman.
A submitter to God, who followed the Quran as a righteous man.
A federal-secular leader, who led a city-state populated with a religiously and ethnically diverse group of people, according to the secular constitution.
A muslim leader, who led the group of muslims in that city-state, according to the specific laws of the Quran.

Peace,
Edip

Pece,
Edip

The response to my statement regarding "federal secularism" demonstrated my silly expectation, that people would reflect on them; yet many responded with a knee-jerk reaction.

rotfl rotfl rotfl

I have written articles on this in Turkish, but as it seems, I need to write another one in English, discussing the role of Muhammad as

A messenger of God, who delivered the Quran as a human mailman.
A submitter to God, who followed the Quran as a righteous man.
A federal-secular leader, who led a city-state populated with a religiously and ethnically diverse group of people, according to the secular constitution.
A muslim leader, who led the group of muslims in that city-state, according to the specific laws of the Quran.

rotfl rotfl rotfl

Raj-ah

OPF

God alone is final authority.

Yes! God alone is final authority and that Authority has appointed his Messanger through power of attorney for mankind.

and by that virtue Muhammad was

A messenger of God, who delivered the Quran as a human mailman.
2. A submitter to God, who followed the Quran as a righteous man.
3. A leader, who led a city-state populated with a religiously and ethnically diverse group of people, according to the secular constitution.
4. A muslim leader, who led the group of muslims in that city-state, according to the specific laws of the Quran.

Allah Ho Akbar.

Raj-ah

Layth

Quran tells us Hajj is to a place called Bakka (396) ? Bakka is recorded as being a name for the approach to Mt. Zion in Jerusalem; - Quran tells us that Abraham was charged with rebuilding the shrine and calling to the pilgrimage once again (2226-27) ? Previous recipients of the Scripture and their Scriptures all acknowledge the gathering in Jerusalem, but none have ever heard of Mecca Arabia;

Quran tells us the situation/station of Abraham is located at this site (397) ? Jerusalem has the rock where Abraham supposedly was about to sacrifice his son located on the temple mount, whereas Mecca Arabia has some so-called footprints enclosed in brass;
Quran tells us that that the location of the pilgrimage is on a high place hence people are approaching it from lower/deep enclosures (2227) ? Jerusalem?s temple mount is on a high place, while the temple in Mecca Arabia is at the base of the valley ? common for temples constructed for idol worship during those days;
Quran tells us that olives grew at the ?peaceful town? where the prophet was (951-3) ? Jerusalem is abundant in olive trees, while Mecca Arabia has none;
Quran tells us that a place called Mecca was an obstacle in the way to reaching the restricted temple in Bakka (4824);
Quran tells us the Qibla was changed twice (2142-144), once away from the restricted temple (as a test) and then back to it again ? the idolworshippers until today acknowledge that the first Qibla was Jerusalem, but they refuse to acknowledge that there was ever a change back;
The restricted temple has been made off-limits to the idolworshippers since the time of the prophet (92 ? Yet, Mecca Arabia is infested with idolworshippers until today, while the temple mount in Jerusalem has not called the pilgrimage to it and therefore has not received anyone for just as long;
The controversy and doubt over Mecca were evident in the early days after the prophet?s death whereby the kaaba in Mecca was catapulted and destroyed by an Islamic army while the temple in Jerusalem was honored and upgraded.
Evidence exists showing mosques built after the death of the prophet with their Qiblas aligned towards Jerusalem ? not Mecca (Cook & Crone).

There are probably a few more points I missed, but you get the idea.

To you is your system and to me is mine.

Agnoistic

Would you please provide evidence for the highlighted queries in your post? Or these are claims just for the sake of claims without any concrete evidence?
Regards

I was waiting for brother Layth to comment on above, but since a time has been passed, either he is busy or not interested.
So let me comment on his points one by one.

Bigmo

Dear brother, you know nothing. Please read up on usool, fiqh, isnad, etc and after 20 years of study you may be able to hold an opinion. In the mean time let the blessed ulema (AS) dish these things out! Nobody gave you the authority to speak.

You can contact him by seeing him in your dreams. Honourable people only. Sometimes the shaitan comes but he can never come as the Holy Prophet (PBUH).

Ibn Abbas reported

I used to teach (the Qur?an to) some people of the Muhajiron (emigrants), among whom there was ?Abdur Rahman bin ?Auf. While I was in his house at Mina, and he was with Umar bin Al-Khattab during ?Umar?s last Hajj, Abdur-Rahman came to me and said, ?Would that you had seen the man who came today to the Chief of the Believers (?Umar), saying, ?O Chief of the Believers! What do you think about so-and-so who says, ?If ?Umar should die, I will give the pledge of allegiance to such-and-such person, as by Allah, the pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr was nothing but a prompt sudden action which got established afterwards.? ?Umar became angry and then said, ?Allah willing, I will stand before the people tonight and warn them against those people who want to deprive the others of their rights (the question of rulership).?

Abdur-Rahman said, ?I said, ?O Chief of the believers! Do not do that, for the season of Hajj gathers the riff-raff and the rubble, and it will be they who will gather around you when you stand to address the people. And I am afraid that you will get up and say something, and some people will spread your statement and may not say what you have actually said and may not understand its meaning, and may interpret it incorrectly, so you should wait till you reach Medina, as it is the place of emigration and the place of Prophet?s Traditions, and there you can come in touch with the learned and noble people, and tell them your ideas with confidence; and the learned people will understand your statement and put it in its proper place.? On that, ?Umar said, ?By Allah! Allah willing, I will do this in the first speech I will deliver before the people in Medina.?

Ibn Abbas added We reached Medina by the end of the month of Dhul-Hijja, and when it was Friday, we went quickly (to the mosque) as soon as the sun had declined, and I saw Sa?id bin Zaid bin ?Amr bin Nufail sitting at the corner of the pulpit, and I too sat close to him so that my knee was touching his knee, and after a short while ?Umar bin Al-Khattab came out, and when I saw him coming towards us, I said to Said bin Zaid bin ?Amr bin Nufail ?Today ?Umar will say such a thing as he has never said since he was chosen as Caliph.? Said denied my statement with astonishment and said, ?What thing do you expect ?Umar to say the like of which he has never said before??

In the meantime, ?Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, ?Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said, ?Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say. I do not know; perhaps it portends my death, so whoever understands and remembers it, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, but if somebody is afraid that he does not understand it, then it is unlawful for him to tell lies about me. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah?s Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.

I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, ?By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah?s Book,? and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession. And then we used to recite among the Verses in Allah?s Book ?O people! Do not claim to be the offspring of other than your fathers, as it is disbelief (unthankfulness) on your part that you claim to be the offspring of other than your real father.? Then (unrelated)

2
Narrated Ibn ?Abbas

Umar said, ?I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, ?We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book,? and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession.? Sufyan added, ?I have memorized this narration in this way.? ?Umar added, ?Surely Allah?s Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him.?

3
Narrated Ibn Umar

A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah?s Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. ?What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?? They replied, ?Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya.? ?Abdullah bin Salam said, ?O Allah?s Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah.? The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, ?Lift up your hand.? Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah?s Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn ?Umar added So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.

4
Ibn Mardawayh reported that Hudhayfah said

Umar said to me ?How many verses are contained in the chapter of al-Ahzab?? I said, ?72 or 73 verses.? He said it was almost as long as the chapter of the Cow, which contains 287 verses, and in it there was the verse of stoning.

5
Ayesha

?When the verses ?Rajm? and ayah ?Rezah Kabir? descended, they were written on a piece of paper and kept under my pillow. Following the demise of Prophet Muhammad (S) a goat ate the piece of paper while we were mourning.?
Another translation goes

The verse of stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the Messenger of Allah (SAWW.) expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper.

6
If a judge has to witness in favor of a litigant whenhe is a judge or he had it before he became a judge (can he pass ajudgment in his favor accordingly or should he refer the case to another judge before whom he would bear witness?). And the judge Shuraih said to a person who sought his witness, ?Go to the ruler so that I may bear witness (before him) for you.? And ?Ikrima said, ?Umar said to ?Abdur-Rahman bin ?Auf, ?If I saw a man committing illegal sexual intercourse or theft, and you were the ruler (what would you do)?. ?Abdur-Rahman said, ?I would regard your witness as equal to the witness of any other man among the Muslims. ?Umar said, ?You have said the truth.? ?Umar added If I were not afraid of the fact that people may say that ?Umar has added to the Quran extra (verses), I would have written the Verse al-Rajm (stoning to death of married adulterers) with my own hands. and Ma?iz confessed before the Prophet that he had committed illegal intercourse, whereupon the prophet ordered him to be stoned to death. It is not mentioned that the prophet sought witness of those who were present there.
Hammad said, ?If an adulterer confesses before a ruler once only, he should be stoned to death.? But al-Hakam said, ?He must confess four times.

Shi?a view
See

See also
List of famous Muslim reports
Hadith of Umar?s speech of forbidding Mut?ah

References
^ 1)

Sahih Bukhari 82.817
Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal (in the Musnad of Umar under the caption of the Hadith al-Saqeefah, pp 47,55)
The life of the Prophet by Ibn Hisham (Pub. by Issa al-Babi al-Halabi of Egypt 1955), v2, p658
^ 2)

Sahih Bukhari 82.816
^ 3)

Sahih Bukhari 82.809
^ 4)

Al-Muttaqi ?Ali bin Husam al-Din in his book ?Mukhtasar Kanz al-?Ummal? printed on the margin of Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Volume 2, page 2, in his hadith about chapter 33

^ 5)

Sunan Ibn Maja, Volume 2, Page 39, Published Karachi.
Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Volume 6, Page 269, Published Beirut.
The Interpretation of Conflicting Narrations, Page 310, Published Beirut
^ 6)
The Hadith is narrated without any Hadith number in Bukhari. It is in the title of one of the chapter of Bukhari. It was translated by the translator.
Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English version, vol 9, p212 {Between Traditions 9.281 and 9.282}

Also

Book 005, Number 2286 (Sahih Muslim)

We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara'at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it" If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust."

Quote
Book 005, Number 2286 (Sahih Muslim)

And we used so recite a slirah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it, but remember (this much) out of it" Oh people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practise" (lxi 2.) and" that is recorded in your necks as a witness (against you) and you would be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection"

hmm

Raj-ah

Layth

Evidence exists showing mosques built after the death of the prophet with their Qiblas aligned towards Jerusalem ? not Mecca (Cook & Crone).

A reference has been provided which refutes the above claim; in my previous post. If there is something to be discussed if brother Layth thinks we shall discuss it, otherwise I believe that this point of LAyth becomes void.

Layth

The controversy and doubt over Mecca were evident in the early days after the prophet?s death whereby the kaaba in Mecca was catapulted and destroyed by an Islamic army while the temple in Jerusalem was honored and upgraded

Since you have not provided the source for it, I assume that it was through
The Shiite historian al-Yaqubi writing who in his Tarikh made an interesting allegation that the Umayyad caliph Abd al-Malik built Dome of the Rock to divert the Hajj from Makkah to Jerusalem to outdo his rival Abdullah b. al-Zubayr.

M S M Saifullah says that supporting such evidence is largely based on texts of a Shiite historian al-Yaqubi (c. 874 CE) and of an orthodox priest from Alexandria, Eutychius (d. 940 CE). In order to justify their theory they propose that the plan of the rock with the two ambulatories around the rock itself, originated with the liturgical requirements of the tawaf.

Following are points to be considered

It was Calif ?Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan who built the Dome of the Rock around 691 A.D. i.e 53-72 years after Hijrah. And Masjidu?l Aqsa was built on the Temple Mount by the end of the 7th century. This is reported in The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam, Harper & Row, 1989, p. 46 and 102.

So why did Muslims waited 72 years after death of prophet to move towards Jerusalem?
What was the reason of a conflict between Malik and Abdullah b. al-Zubayr? Was it religous over Kabah or was it politically motivated?
The first inscription on the outside dome of rock is meant for all Muslims and the inner inscription is written for Christians ALONE. Jews are not even considered in the context of the inner (or even the outer) inscription. The analysis of these two inscriptions shows that Abd al-Malik built the Dome of the Rock t o satisfy Christian religious matters and it shows that the Dome of the Rock HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH JEWISH MATTERS WHATEVER!
This clearly indicates this transfer of Hajj or Kabbah was nothing religous but politics!
In actual fact, Omar (the Second Caliph and the first Muslim leader to enter Jerusalem) and Abd al-Malik about 50 years later actually honored the real site of the Jewish Temple that were shown to them on the southeast ridge and over the Gihon Spring (that is the very thing that Omar came to Jerusalem to accomplish) but these early Muslim leaders did NOT show the same type of reverence to the Rock now under the Dome of the Rock. The Dome was built by Muslims to wean Christians from the site, NOT to make it a more sanctified spot in Islam nor did the building of the Dome of the Rock have anything to do with Jewish religious matters or aspirations. Indeed, the "rock" underneath the Dome of the Rock was specifically and significantly of Christian importance and that the Jews up to the time of the Crusades showed no interest whatever in this former Christian spot that Abd al-Malik rebuilt as a Christian type of building (with its characteristic Byzantine dome) in order to wean Christians (who comprised at least 90% of the population of Jerusalem in the seventh century) from New Testament teachings and to win them over to the doctrines then being taught by Islam in and through the Koran.

unknownuser

OPF
Yes! God alone is final authority and that Authority has appointed his Messanger through power of attorney for mankind.

and by that virtue Muhammad was

A messenger of God, who delivered the Quran as a human mailman.
2. A submitter to God, who followed the Quran as a righteous man.
3. A leader, who led a city-state populated with a religiously and ethnically diverse group of people, according to the secular constitution.
4. A muslim leader, who led the group of muslims in that city-state, according to the specific laws of the Quran.

Allah Ho Akbar.

Yes, God has appointed a rasool at one point in time as an intermediary as per p4251]. For instance, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Joseph, etc.

As for secular constitution, if 'muhammad' or anyone else who followed the quran had that kind of power, the last thing they would do is follow a human made constitution. Secular is a very new word and the quran dates back a long while, to call the quran secular does it no justice. Friendly to others =/= secular as much as people wish to believe and neither does the quran condone religious scholars holding power. The only people quran condones to have power are the people of knowledge and ability, as long as they use it (, cannot seem to find the other verse). And if it says make not jews/christians as your awliya, then how can it be secular?

So sure you are correct. Just as Abraham, at one point had at least 3 of those going, just as Moses had even more and so on. To place Muhammad on a beacon is a travesty.

unknownuser

hmm

OK, that's 20 minutes out of roughly 2000000. Give it time. Inshallah you will be able to speak soon.

unknownuser

OPF
Yes! God alone is final authority and that Authority has appointed his Messanger through power of attorney for mankind.

and by that virtue Muhammad was

A messenger of God, who delivered the Quran as a human mailman.
2. A submitter to God, who followed the Quran as a righteous man.
3. A leader, who led a city-state populated with a religiously and ethnically diverse group of people, according to the secular constitution.
4. A muslim leader, who led the group of muslims in that city-state, according to the specific laws of the Quran.

Allah Ho Akbar.

619
(619) He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the Guidance and the Religion of truth that He may cause it to prevail over all religions, much as the polytheists may dislike it. *13
inshallah

Bigmo

OK, that's 20 minutes out of roughly 2000000. Give it time. Inshallah you will be able to speak soon.

So know you know why your Sunni sheikhs do not rely on the Koran and rely on hadith Isnad. Cause they believe, unlike the Koran which was written down, anything orally passed down like hadiths can protect itself from a goat's robbery and kidnap. rotfl

unknownuser

So know you know why your Sunni sheikhs do not rely on the Koran and rely on hadith Isnad. Cause they believe, unlike the Koran which was written down, anything orally passed down like hadiths can protect itself from a goat's robbery and kidnap. rotfl

Goat was a messenger (PBUH) sent by Allah to enforce abrogation. Goat was made of nur and had no shadow and 1000 angels followed it with 72 virgins each.

Like Musa's rock who stole his clothes. Allah wanted to show the people Musa's crown jewels so they would be sure he had no defects. You can see the rock today with the lash marks from Musa's cane.

Edip_Yuksel

Dear brother, you know nothing. Please read up on usool, fiqh, isnad, etc and after 20 years of study you may be able to hold an opinion. In the mean time let the blessed ulema (AS) dish these things out! Nobody gave you the authority to speak.

You can contact him by seeing him in your dreams. Honourable people only. Sometimes the shaitan comes but he can never come as the Holy Prophet (PBUH).

What if in my dream yesterday I saw prophet Muhammad with his beautiful smile telling me to follow the Quran since his only complaint in the heaven would be about his people deserting the Quran? What if he opened the Quran in my dream and showed me the verse 2530 and warned me against idolizing ulama and the narrators of hadith by showing me verses 4221 and 6112?

What if he then rubbed his holy beard and warned me against a person named OPF, since it was a shaitan hiding behind the computer screen and diverting people from the Quran?

What do you think OPF, if I see prophet Muhammad in my dream telling me those?
What if OPF, if the Book that the same prophet delivered to us tell me the same?

I advise you to read 10100 and reflect on what you are following as your religion.

Peace,
Edip

Jack

Peace brother Edip,

OPF was being totally sarcastic.

unknownuser

What if in my dream yesterday I saw prophet Muhammad with his beautiful smile telling me to follow the Quran since his only complaint in the heaven would be about his people deserting the Quran? What if he opened the Quran in my dream and showed me the verse 2530 and warned me against idolizing ulama and the narrators of hadith by showing me verses 4221 and 6112?

What if he then rubbed his holy beard and warned me against a person named OPF, since it was a shaitan hiding behind the computer screen and diverting people from the Quran?

What do you think OPF, if I see prophet Muhammad in my dream telling me those?
What if OPF, if the Book that the same prophet delivered to us tell me the same?

I advise you to read 10100 and reflect on what you are following as your religion.

Peace,
Edip

Astaghfirullah!

Shaitan never imitates prophet (PBUH). And prophet does not have beautiful smile, prophet is made of noor and travels on Buraq at the speed of light so you could never see his smile. And prophet could never communicate to you because Doppler shift would make him sound very low pitched like judgement day trumpet.

Only honourable people see and talk with prophet because they are also made of noor and move at speed of light. Subhanallah.

Edip_Yuksel

Peace brother Edip,

OPF was being totally sarcastic.

Thank you for this information. Then, that part of the dream would be wrong, very wrong indeed Perhaps, I should never again ask hypothetical questions regarding dreams

Peace,
Edip

Raj-ah

OPF

As for secular constitution, if 'muhammad' or anyone else who followed the quran had that kind of power, the last thing they would do is follow a human made constitution. Secular is a very new word and the quran dates back a long while, to call the quran secular does it no justice. Friendly to others =/= secular as much as people wish to believe and neither does the quran condone religious scholars holding power. The only people quran condones to have power are the people of knowledge and ability, as long as they use it (, cannot seem to find the other verse). And if it says make not jews/christians as your awliya, then how can it be secular?

The constitution is always human made, and what Muhammad implemented was also a human made constitution BUT under the guidelines of Quran.

When he migrated to Medina, in the face of persecution with fellow believers in 622 AD, he also became a political leader. In the city, there were two distinct groups besides the Muslims Jews and the polytheists. Soon Prophet Muhammad prepared a document which the other two groups accepted to sign. The charter, known as the Medina Constitution, recognized the separate communities in the city and guaranteed everybody a life according to his or her faith. Jewish tribes were "one community with the believers," the document emphasized, while they "have their religion and the Muslims have theirs."

To see a better example, let's look at how the Ottomans adopted to modernity. Until the 19th century, they did well with the multiple legal systems. Muslim had their owns courts, Jew and Christians had theirs. But as the empire modernized, interaction between religious groups increased and it became very impractical to keep multiple legal codes. What would happen when a Muslim sued a Christian or vice versa? This was a rare event in the 16th century perhaps, but a growingly common one with the rise of modern economy. Moreover Christians of the empire were being influenced by the novel ideas of equality and liberty.

That's why the Ottoman state founded the secular nizamiye and introduced a new law that would appeal equally to all Ottoman citizens regardless of their faith. Under the auspices of the Sultan/Caliph Abdulhamid II, Ahmet Cevdet Paa, an Islamic scholar and a top bureaucrat, prepared the Mecelle, which was a civil code that included some Islamic elements, especially in family code, but also was secular to quite an extent. Cevdet Paa referred to the juristic rule, as time changes, laws should change, too in order to update Islamic codes and bring in modern elements. Turkey abandoned Mecelle in 1926, but it remained in practice in many post-Ottoman states ? even in Israel, at least formally, until 1984.

Therefore What Edip is saying has a weightage (What only if he could control his temper towards other Muslims (Harun Yahya) and stop promoting wrong doings of Rashid Khalifa).

Bigmo

Goat was a messenger (PBUH) sent by Allah to enforce abrogation. Goat was made of nur and had no shadow and 1000 angels followed it with 72 virgins each.

Like Musa's rock who stole his clothes. Allah wanted to show the people Musa's crown jewels so they would be sure he had no defects. You can see the rock today with the lash marks from Musa's cane.

If you looked at the hadiths properly then you would know Omar did not believe the verse was abrogated and he himself,in that hadith, says he wanted it included and would have included himself but but did not fearing people would say he tampered with Koran. Meanwhile the hadith from Aisha makes clear that the verse was kidnapped and robbed and was lost. Nothing about abrogation. Plus the other hadiths show that the companions DIFFERED in the verses of the Koran. It was not forgotten but "supposedly" remembered by some and forgotten by others. So who was the one who decides whats to be included in the koran and whats not whan they differed like that? These are a bunch of lies and a disgrace. I can't believe you believe this nonsense. No wonder you guys refuse to give weight to the koran.

What is your intention? No one here will accept this nonsense. First you say verses were abrogated, then you say Muhammad was illiterate and could not know what people wrote down from the Koran, the now you say verses came down, maybe by the hundreds, that are not included in the koran we have today. The you tell us that the companions differed as to what verses came down and what verses should be included in the Koran compilation. Then you tell us Omar said there are over 100 verses in the Ahzab chapter that we don't have today. What is your intention?