new website - answering questions by traditionalists. NEED YOUR HELP

unknownuser

How about, instead of wasting time answering these questions which they put out to dismiss people as fast as possible and have a circle jerk of self-reassurance amongst themselves, you put some questions back to them, like so

1.) If the quran hasn't got your ritual jumping, why the hell are you following it then? Fully detailed, explained, complete, etc.
2.) Who is the messenger? Explain who "the messenger" is without making a distinction between them (4152). A logically absurd question. If Muhammad, explain why his name isn't littered over the quran and exactly why he is overshadowed vastly by Abraham, the ideal, exemplary muslim and friend of allah, or jibreel, the messenger that brought the scripture to all. If accepting hadeeth, then there is circular logic in that jibreel also "taught, explained and purified" muhammad before muhammad did the same to others.
3.) How is Bukhari a good example? Prove the link between "the messenger" and Bukhari. Again, a logically absurd question for the same reason as 3, and because, Bukhari is absurd.
4.) Farce.
5.) is reminded of Tanveer's 2 page post
6.) Sure, when you prove 3.)
7.) Prove 3.) and prove the same people did so without using your hadeeth/sira/other to do so.
8.) Because the quality of this "research" is as professional as the game "Chinese Whispers" I played in grade 1 and is in no way "research" considering that research has to be reproducible and verifiable in that fashion. Where are all these ahadeeth compilations that we can physically verify?
9.) ...
10.) ...

Just don't waste your time. Seriously. We need progress in other things, this is a trivial, satanic distraction and nothing more.

IronSky

Peace to all,

Thanks for your efforts Nerspi, I can give my quick opinion on a few of these questions.

1 I pray exactly as the Quran says to, by bowing and prostrating, I dont need to repeat robotic movements in order to pray to God, I just need to pray, no matter how we do it im sure God will except it if we are sincere, I could probably even stand on my head and pray and it would still be accepted by God if my intentions are good, in contrast to someone who may pray traditionally in perfect form and harbor ill will or insincerety in his heart, only God knows.

2 I obey the messenger by obeying Gods message, the Quran says Mohhamads only duty is to convey the Quran and he is not sent to watch over us in our daily affairs, so if his duty is only to deliver Quran, our only duty is to follow the Quran and God, also the Quran says to obey all messengers, it even says to obey Jesus, so why dont traditionalists obey Jesus and the other prophets.

3 It also says other messengers were good examples, and good examples doesnt mean perfect examples, im sure Mohammad was a very kind and decent person and he worshipped God sincerely, this is the example I will follow from him and other prophets, but I dont need to follow any so called ways of the prophet in order to learn how to wipe my rear end do I.

4 If I were alive with Mohammad during his time I would probably accept his judgement if I thought it was just, if I thought it was unjust I probably wouldnt accept his judgement, since Mohammad is now dead, i would rather follow God not some other persons interpretation of what they think Mohammad might have done or said.

5 see question 2, we are to follow and obey all messengers, not just Mohammad, and we are to make no distinctions between them, and we can only follow the messengers by following their messages revealed to them by God.

6 I dont believe he was always revealing the Quran, im sure the Quran would be 50 feet thick if every word he said was divinely revealed, he probaly made all kinds of daily comments like pass me the salt, etc, so does this mean God inspired him to ask for salt, and we are to follow him, sounds silly to me, he was inspired to reveal the Quran, and only the Quran is divinely revealed, hence thats all we need to follow along with our heart and conscience and out inner voice.

7 Who are these people that agreed to transmit the Quran, I thought God tranmitted it to us via Mohammad, I would rather follow God not men and their faulty memory and invented sayings. Why do they accept the hadeeth and not the Quran.

8 the rejection of hadeeth is based upon deep research into the chains of transmission, why dont they respect our deep research?

9 The Quran is fully detailed, it can be understood by reading it with a good heart , sincerety, and with the veil lifted from your eyes, if you need sources outside the Quran to understand the Quran you will never understand the Quran.

10 I dont reject anything, I even will read hadeeth and other stories sometimes in order to learn and gain experience of other peoples experiences in life, but I do not make them into divine writ and demand them to be followed,, haddeth should be read just as any other book should be read, such as shakespeare or other great writers, I even read old and new testament, but I only follow what I believe to be good and just only, I will accept nothing if it goes against my heart. The Quran has never went against my heart yet, and I pray that it never will, God willing, even in the Quran it tells us to only foloow what is good in it, so thats what i will try to do, as in all things.

Kurt

AlFajr

Peace all,

Salaamun alaikum,

As you know, speaking to traditionalists about Islam often necessitates answering the same questions over and over again. Because of this, a few of us have decided to put together a website which compiles questions by traditionalists and our answers to them.

Here are the first set of questions we are attempting to answer

The Quran doesn?t teach us how to pray? If you don?t follow hadith and sunna, how do you pray?
Yes it does. The Quran doesn't tell us how the Sunni's Pray
The Quran commands us to ?obey the messenger?? Why don?t you do this?
Because Bukhari is not the messenger. The Quran also says don't raise your voice in front of the messenger, and give a donation b4 visiting the messenger. How can I do this?
The Quran tells us that the messenger is ?a beautiful example?. Why do you not accept his example?
Same as above.
The Quran tells us to accept the messenger?s judgement. Why do you reject his judgement?
Same as Above
.The Quran tells us to follow the messenger? How do you do this without following the hadith and sunna?
By following the message he brought
The Quran tells us that the messenger was always inspired? Doesn?t this mean that the hadith and sunna are inspired words and acts?
No, because theres no proof that they are anything. They are contradictory and hearsay
The institution of hadith was agreed upon by the same people who transmitted the Quran. Why then do you accept the Quran but not the hadith?
Because the Quran has proven itself to me. The hadith have not. If you do not believe in the Quran without the Hadith. Then you are the bigger rejecter.
The hadith is based on deep research into the chains of narrations of transmission. Why do you not respect this deep research?
Chinese whispers is not Scientific/Deep in any way
The Quran cannot be understood without the explanations of hadith. How will you understand the Quran?
The Quran says there are verses that are literal and those that are vague. Only those with a disease in their hearts would seek to deduce a meaning from vague verses.
The hadith are explanations of the Quran by the Prophet. Why would you reject the explanations of the Prophet, even if you don?t believe them to be revelation?
Because they are contradictory to the Quran and there is no proof that they are his explanations.

We would like you to join and please answer as many of these questions as you possibly can. If you have other questions which you feel traditionalists will ask, please also forward those questions to us.

Email us at [email protected]

Thank you very much for your participation.

Thanks farouk.

Lost_Philosopher

I dont even think you need to be muslim to awnser this.

The Quran doesn?t teach us how to pray? If you don?t follow hadith and sunna, how do you pray?
No person in history has ever needed directions on how to worship thier god from someone else.
The Quran commands us to ?obey the messenger?? Why don?t you do this?
I guess if were taking things literaly, it impossible to obey someone who is dead. Unless you stick your head in the earth.
The Quran tells us that the messenger is ?a beautiful example?. Why do you not accept his example?
Human error. Unless you believe he was more than a human.
The Quran tells us to accept the messenger?s judgement. Why do you reject his judgement?
Repeat awnser 2
The Quran tells us to follow the messenger? How do you do this without following the hadith and sunna?
Repeat awnser 3
The Quran tells us that the messenger was always inspired? Doesn?t this mean that the hadith and sunna are inspired words and acts?
Just like the bible, inspired words and acts are good for a small amount of people or time. Its kind of like the logical fallicy of Description of Composition. http//www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/composition.html
The institution of hadith was agreed upon by the same people who transmitted the Quran. Why then do you accept the Quran but not the hadith?
Self interpretation> 'expert' interpretation
The hadith is based on deep research into the chains of narrations of transmission. Why do you not respect this deep research?
Repeat awnser 3.
The Quran cannot be understood without the explanations of hadith. How will you understand the Quran?
There is no truth in that statment, also repeat awnser 7.
The hadith are explanations of the Quran by the Prophet. Why would you reject the explanations of the Prophet, even if you don?t believe them to be revelation?
Repeat awnser 7and 3

Alen

Salaamun alaikum,

As you know, speaking to traditionalists about Islam often necessitates answering the same questions over and over again. Because of this, a few of us have decided to put together a website which compiles questions by traditionalists and our answers to them.

Here are the first set of questions we are attempting to answer

The Quran doesn?t teach us how to pray? If you don?t follow hadith and sunna, how do you pray?
The Quran commands us to ?obey the messenger?? Why don?t you do this?
The Quran tells us that the messenger is ?a beautiful example?. Why do you not accept his example?
The Quran tells us to accept the messenger?s judgement. Why do you reject his judgement?
.The Quran tells us to follow the messenger? How do you do this without following the hadith and sunna?
The Quran tells us that the messenger was always inspired? Doesn?t this mean that the hadith and sunna are inspired words and acts?
The institution of hadith was agreed upon by the same people who transmitted the Quran. Why then do you accept the Quran but not the hadith?
The hadith is based on deep research into the chains of narrations of transmission. Why do you not respect this deep research?
The Quran cannot be understood without the explanations of hadith. How will you understand the Quran?
The hadith are explanations of the Quran by the Prophet. Why would you reject the explanations of the Prophet, even if you don?t believe them to be revelation?

We would like you to join and please answer as many of these questions as you possibly can. If you have other questions which you feel traditionalists will ask, please also forward those questions to us.

Email us at [email protected]

Thank you very much for your participation.

Salam,
Respectfully.

Here is a way to answer them and just let them be. God has sealed their hearts, bro.

God tells us in The Quran how other Muslims before us and Muhammad and Jesus and Moses prayed and that is how we prayed. Prophet Muhammad followed prophet Ibrahim and that means that we follow prophet Ibrahim, therefore we pray like Ibrahim. Islamic duties were all introduced to Ibrahim, not Muhammad. Ibrahim asked God how to perform ceremonies, right?
The God tells us in The Quran that we must obey the messenger only when he is right. We don't obey Muhammad, we obey Messenger. There is a clear difference. Listening to a teacher of English in school means this"Listen and learn from miss Smith and she will teach you English language." When you see her at her home using bad language and other languages than English, she is not a liar, she is a free human who in her own spare time learns what she wants and talks what she wants, she's weak. But in school she is a teachert, at home she is miss Smith. At school she is payed to work and deliver the sermon, i mean, teach the kids English, at home she is a teacher but also a mother, wife, neighbor, friend, neice, cousin and even watches movies.
God also tells us that prophet Ibrahim is also an example. Did sunnis forget or are they blind, deaf and dumb?
The God tgells us that prophet could only judge according to what Quran says. Had Muhammad uttered any other teachings, he would be punished by God. None of you could have helped him.
Prophet Muhammad followed Quran. I follow Quran - i follow prophet Muhammad.
If sunna and hadeethy are insiprations then why do they contradict themselves and often The Quran. God says He will presewrve The Quran, we never hear God saying He will preserve sunna and hadeeth. What's going on?
The Quran was brought by Gabriel from God to Muhammad, immediately written down and memorised. Can you say the same about sunna and hadeeth? No? Great, a breakthrough.
Chains of narrations? Who are these narrataors? Because Quran was delivered and memorised at thge spot.
Qur'an - from God, through Gabriel, to Muhammad.
sunna and hadeeth - from Muhammad to this man, to that man, to thius guy, to that guy, never heard by any other woman but Aisha, if that is true. Who are these people who narrated hadeeth? Did they research them? No? Again no? Come on.
Understand what? If God tells you not to kill, is that clear or do you feel the need to go to the desert for nine years and think about it? Maybe after you do kill, you will be sent to a desert and you think about what you did. When i say desert, i mean jail. Clear enough?
God says in The Quran, He will explain The Quran, afterall, it is His Message, not Muhammad's.

Peace.

purifying

The questions arise from one asumption.

Hadiths = the saying of "the messenger" = come from God

Cut away the "=", and the whole branches of divertion would fall. Until then, the traditionalists would bombard us with questions and and other means of divertion, using all kinds of tactics, of couse.

peace.

Fadhli

Peace brother,

I suggest Just answer them once. If they want to debate, leave them be, don't answer them. I think it's better not to be involved in the debate. It make your mind thinks about winning over them and might make you forget God about God advice on debating. and it's a reverse psychology too. Anyone who's interested on understanding your answer might contact you personally to understand more. You'll know who's sincere and who's not. So better give your contact to them. Just in case God favor some of them. D

handshake

peace4life

Peace,

I would say exactly what bro Kurt said.

But bro you know if people are not sincere truth seekers it is a waste of time, dont bother wasting your energy because only God can guide. If there's a genuine truth seeker among them instead of asking questions in order to defend hadith they would ask questions in order to be genuinly seeking truth and closeness to God. They have a brain they can research for themselves and ask questions if they are sincere.

Jack

Guys guys guys, this is not about guiding anyone!

I've 'spoken' to the people behind this, and it's cataloging answers to popular sunni questions. Therefore, when someone comes in here and asks you 'how do you pray?!' You just link it and be done with it.

Wakas

peace,

I initially didn't reply to this because there is loads of info already out there on the questions, it just needs compiling. If someone wishes to complie them into one place, making it fairly comprehensive, easy to link to, then I think this is a good idea.

The institution of hadith was agreed upon by the same people who transmitted the Quran. Why then do you accept the Quran but not the hadith?

A commonly stated argument by those who wish to raise traditional heresay/ahadith to divine-status level is that its compilation was the same as The Quran.

Is that really true? Lets look at the simple and obvious facts...

The Quran = God's Word
Ahadith = man's word

The Quran = 100% fact/truth/perfect
Ahadith = mix of truth and falsehood (hence weak and strong hadith)

The Quran = recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet Muhammad
Ahadith = not recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet Muhammad

The Quran = written AND memorised word for word as soon as it was transmitted
Ahadith = no-one ever claimed to record and memorise ahadith word for word as soon as it was transmitted

The Quran = protected explicitly by God Himself as stated in The Quran
Ahadith = no such explicit protection stated

The Quran = no Muslim doubts its credibility
Ahadith = each sect has its own versions, weak & strong ones etc

The Quran = in-built verification mechanism, e.g. challenges others to find inconsistancy, bring a chapter like it etc.
Ahadith = no such in-built mechanism, full of inconsistancies etc.